Scripture verses Satans false illumination

[louis]

According to scripture we are to study the Word so that we can rightly divide truth from fiction (2 Corinthians 2:15), and yet here on this forum and others I notice that the vast majority of people do not quote scripture, but instead prefer their own conjectures without scriptural support. In fact, many when confronted with scriptures contradicting their perspective will continue to assert their unsupported conjectures.
According to scripture their doing so is due to the fact that the devil who is the deceiver of all mankind (Revelation 12:9), masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14).
What this means is that many here instead of choosing scriptures to verify their perspectives, instead choose to believe the pretty picture the deceiver of all mankind provides them in their heads.
These individuals are then those who have been deceived, and who prefer darkness over light.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Revealtion 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 

[Dino246]

Hi Louis,
A few comments on your post...

The first time you give the reference, it's given incorrectly as 2 Corinthians, not 2 Timothy. No worries, we all make mistakes.

However, you also add a concept to the passage which is not stated in the text: "dividing truth from fiction". It's not a good idea to do that, because you are engaging in eisegesis (adding to Scripture) and thereby distorting the basis of your argument. The verse simply says, "dividing the word of truth". As Paul does not explain this phrase, we are left to interpret it. The next verse, "But shun profane and vain babblings..." does suggest false teaching, but it still does not justify dividing the truth from fiction as the only interpretation.

You go on to assert that "the vast majority of people on this site don't quote Scripture, but instead prefer their own conjectures". Do you realize that is a conjecture on your part? You have provided no evidence to support it.

You then assert that people do this because of the devil masquerading as an angel of light. Frankly, I don't see any direct connection. Are you stating that every single person who puts forth a conjecture has been directly deceived by Satan masquerading as an angel of light? Why then are there not more testimonies about angels of light? Perhaps the testimony of Joseph Smith or that of Mohammed would fit your assertion better. Based on what I've seen around here, the "vast majority" actually read Scripture, do their best to "rightly divide" it, and make assertions that are consistent with at least parts of it, even if they don't quote it.

That is not to say that everyone is correct or scripturally sound in everything they assert! However, the absence of a quotation from Scripture does not make an assertion anti-scriptural, nor does the presence of a quotation from Scripture make an assertion sound... as your post ironically demonstrates.

 

[louis]

Hi Louis,
A few comments on your post...

The first time you give the reference, it's given incorrectly as 2 Corinthians, not 2 Timothy. No worries, we all make mistakes.

Hello Dino,
Thanks for letting me know about the typo, 2 Timothy and not 2 Corinthians.

However, you also add a concept to the passage which is not stated in the text: "dividing truth from fiction". It's not a good idea to do that, because you are engaging in eisegesis (adding to Scripture) and thereby distorting the basis of your argument. The verse simply says, "dividing the word of truth". As Paul does not explain this phrase, we are left to interpret it. The next verse, "But shun profane and vain babblings..." does suggest false teaching, but it still does not justify dividing the truth from fiction as the only interpretation.

If one does not study the Word then what will come out is usually Satans false illumination.
It is easy to recognize that when 10 people have 10 different perspectives that at least nine of those perspectives are from Satan's false illumination, if not all 10 perspectives.
Satan's deceiving false illumination (lies) equal fiction.

You go on to assert that "the vast majority of people on this site don't quote Scripture, but instead prefer their own conjectures". Do you realize that is a conjecture on your part? You have provided no evidence to support it.

You are correct that I should have provided an example. I was intending to do so, but I wanted to keep the OP focused.
Here is an example: Many people here believe the bible is completely centered around the Middle East, and that America and other nations are not mentioned in the bible.
The other day, on another thread I had posted about whether Trump is the mouth of the beast in Daniel 7 & 8, a certain individual asserted that the bible was strictly about the Middle East.
I then went on to show her with scritptures from Daniel 8that the he goat who traverses the whole earth from the West without touching the ground (its air force) to destroy the lands of Media and Persia, which today correspond with Iran and Iraq, could then not be located in the Middle East.
The individual rather than respond that I was correct, simply did not reply and left.
Her pride kept her from responding and thereby Satan keeps her in the dark of her own volition.

You then assert that people do this because of the devil masquerading as an angel of light. Frankly, I don't see any direct connection. Are you stating that every single person who puts forth a conjecture has been directly deceived by Satan masquerading as an angel of light? Why then are there not more testimonies about angels of light? Perhaps the testimony of Joseph Smith or that of Mohammed would fit your assertion better. Based on what I've seen around here, the "vast majority" actually read Scripture, do their best to "rightly divide" it, and make assertions that are consistent with at least parts of it, even if they don't quote it.

That is not to say that everyone is correct or scripturally sound in everything they assert! However, the absence of a quotation from Scripture does not make an assertion anti-scriptural, nor does the presence of a quotation from Scripture make an assertion sound... as your post ironically demonstrates.

I asserted that people have false impressions of many things, including biblical scripture, due to the deceiver of the whole world who according to Revelation 12:9 provides them with false illumination (2 Corinthians 11:14).

 

[Dino246]

If one does not study the Word then what will come out is usually Satans false illumination.
It is easy to recognize that when 10 people have 10 different perspectives that at least nine of those perspectives are from Satan's false illumination, if not all 10 perspectives. Satan's deceiving false illumination (lies) equal fiction.

Thanks for the response. To me, "perspective" means "viewpoint", not necessarily "final interpretation". So I can recognize that a woman who prior to salvation had an abortion will have a different viewpoint on Psalm 139 than a boy in his late teens. Neither is necessarily inspired by Satan; they simply see things differently because their different life experiences inform their viewpoint. It is possible (even likely) that God had many interpretations in mind when He inspired the Scriptures, and that they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. There is the view that what the writer meant when he wrote it down is the one correct interpretation, but as that is not available to us, we do well to remember that our own perspective is not necessarily exhaustively and exclusively correct. In other words, let's not be quick to condemn others whose viewpoints are different.

I then went on to show her with scritptures from Daniel 8that the he goat who traverses the whole earth from the West without touching the ground (its air force) to destroy the lands of Media and Persia, which today correspond with Iran and Iraq, could then not be located in the Middle East. The individual rather than respond that I was correct, simply did not reply and left. Her pride kept her from responding and thereby Satan keeps her in the dark of her own volition.

Media and Persia may not be in "your" version of the Middle East, but that doesn't preclude them from being within another person's version. I don't see why it must exclude them; it's not a clearly-delineated area.

The fact that she didn't respond is not necessarily due to pride or satanic blindness. Perhaps she has a life and isn't on here regularly? Perhaps she doesn't make a point of following up on every comment she makes? (I don't). Again, some generosity and grace on your part might go a long way.

I asserted that people have false impressions of many things, including biblical scripture, due to the deceiver of the whole world who according to Revelation 12:9 provides them with false illumination (2 Corinthians 11:14).

I still don't see that every false impression is directly due to satanic "illumination". Some, yes, especially the more serious and/or more influential. But everyday common people doing their best to understand God and His word? I doubt it. Not every non-truth is an intentional lie. Simple error (like your mis-attributed Scripture reference), simple ignorance (not knowing something... yet), calculational errors, misinterpretations of words, not considering context, and many other reasons can lead to incorrect conclusions about the meaning of Scripture, none of which necessarily involve the active influence of the enemy. Stubborn resistance to sound teaching, willing and even forcing others to accept your interpretations, and clearly contravening Scripture to the point of rejecting it sound more to me like satanic influence. Respectfully, I think you're giving too much credit to the enemy, and too little grace to fellow humans.

 

[louis]

Thanks for the response. To me, "perspective" means "viewpoint", not necessarily "final interpretation". So I can recognize that a woman who prior to salvation had an abortion will have a different viewpoint on Psalm 139 than a boy in his late teens. Neither is necessarily inspired by Satan; they simply see things differently because their different life experiences inform their viewpoint. It is possible (even likely) that God had many interpretations in mind when He inspired the Scriptures, and that they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. There is the view that what the writer meant when he wrote it down is the one correct interpretation, but as that is not available to us, we do well to remember that our own perspective is not necessarily exhaustively and exclusively correct. In other words, let's not be quick to condemn others whose viewpoints are different.

I believe we all have two sources of input, either from the Lord or from Satan. We all make decissions from our illumination, whether true or false.

Media and Persia may not be in "your" version of the Middle East, but that doesn't preclude them from being within another person's version. I don't see why it must exclude them; it's not a clearly-delineated area.

Media and Persia, which today correspond with Iran and Iraq are in the Middle East. The he-goat who traverses the whole earth from the West without touching the ground is from the other side of the world from the Middle East.
Read a little more carefully, what I write.

The fact that she didn't respond is not necessarily due to pride or satanic blindness. Perhaps she has a life and isn't on here regularly? Perhaps she doesn't make a point of following up on every comment she makes? (I don't). Again, some generosity and grace on your part might go a long way.

You do spin what one says; I did not mention anything about Satanic blindness..
I clearly showed with scriptures that the bible is not centered solely in the Mideast, to which she did not respond.
Put one and one together; and I see her not responding due to her pride not allowing her to admit her error.

I still don't see that every false impression is directly due to satanic "illumination". Some, yes, especially the more serious and/or more influential. But everyday common people doing their best to understand God and His word? I doubt it. Not every non-truth is an intentional lie. Simple error (like your mis-attributed Scripture reference), simple ignorance (not knowing something... yet), calculational errors, misinterpretations of words, not considering context, and many other reasons can lead to incorrect conclusions about the meaning of Scripture, none of which necessarily involve the active influence of the enemy. Stubborn resistance to sound teaching, willing and even forcing others to accept your interpretations, and clearly contravening Scripture to the point of rejecting it sound more to me like satanic influence. Respectfully, I think you're giving too much credit to the enemy, and too little grace to fellow humans.

The devil is the deciever of the whole world; this includes, you, me, and everyone.
When someone does not consider context, and other variable, the devil is there to put a spin on the little one has grasped, so that their perspective becomes darkness.
Once again, 10 different perspectives for the same scripture is evidence enough for me.
Fortunately, however, there will come a day when we will no longer have to teach each other about the Lord, as we (the truly faithful) will be of like mind, and understand all that scriptures truly represents (Jeremiah 31:34).

Jeremiah 31:34 [FONT=&quot]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.[/FONT]

 

[louis]

Have to leave now, back in a couple of hours.

 

[Dino246]

I believe we all have two sources of input, either from the Lord or from Satan. We all make decissions from our illumination, whether true or false.

I think you overlook the fact that people can think for themselves. I also think you don't recognize the difference between propositional truth (God's word) and experiential truth (our understanding of God's word, as filtered through many lenses).

Media and Persia, which today correspond with Iran and Iraq are in the Middle East. The he-goat who traverses the whole earth from the West without touching the ground is from the other side of the world from the Middle East. Read a little more carefully, what I write.

Granted; I see your point here.

You do spin what one says; I did not mention anything about Satanic blindness..

Um, yes you did: "Her pride kept her from responding and thereby Satan keeps her in the dark of her own volition."

I clearly showed with scriptures that the bible is not centered solely in the Mideast, to which she did not respond. Put one and one together; and I see her not responding due to her pride not allowing her to admit her error.

I think your addition is faulty. You flatly reject any of several other possible explanations for her not responding? It must be a terrible burden knowing with such certainty the motivations of others.

Once again, 10 different perspectives for the same scripture is evidence enough for me.

So because your interpretation differs from mine, I can disregard yours as satanically-inspired? That is the logical conclusion of what you've written. I do hope you would give this matter some more thought, and such thought would lead to you being more gracious to others.

 

[louis]

I think you overlook the fact that people can think for themselves. I also think you don't recognize the difference between propositional truth (God's word) and experiential truth (our understanding of God's word, as filtered through many lenses).

The thinking for oneself is the free will we have to choose.
At the end of the beasts system, when the Lord returns and is seen in the faithful, the rest of the world will be in darkness (Isaiah 60:1-2).
What this means is that the Lord who will come as a thief in the night, will remove Himself (His illumination) from the faithless. This is the sudden destruction that will come upon the faithless in 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Um, yes you did: "Her pride kept her from responding and thereby Satan keeps her in the dark of her own volition."

OK, granted, but Satanic blindness has a different impression than people being kept in the dark (deceived by Satan).

I think your addition is faulty. You flatly reject any of several other possible explanations for her not responding? It must be a terrible burden knowing with such certainty the motivations of others.

There is truth, and whether one accepts it or not.
You acknowleded the truth that the he-goat is an entity on the other side of the planet from Iran and Iraq; why do you think someone else who was shown this fact which proved their supposition that the bible strictly regards the Middle East was wrong would not acknowledge the same?
This is not something hard to deduce as you infer.

So because your interpretation differs from mine, I can disregard yours as satanically-inspired? That is the logical conclusion of what you've written. I do hope you would give this matter some more thought, and such thought would lead to you being more gracious to others.

I will repeat what Revelation 12:9 states: "The whole world is currently deceived by Satan". This means I will sometimes have wrong perspectives due to Satan's false illumination convincing me of something being one way when in fact it is another.
So too will you and everyone else experience the same deceptions by Satan and his minions.
The thing now is to recognize when we are deceived, and to acknowledge the fact; and not just run away and ignore as many here do.
I also am guilty of pride at times. I know this is not from God, because the Word tells me so; and that humility the inverse from pride is from God.
How about yourself, are you deceived with pride?

 

[Dino246]

The thinking for oneself is the free will we have to choose. At the end of the beasts system, when the Lord returns and is seen in the faithful, the rest of the world will be in darkness (Isaiah 60:1-2). What this means is that the Lord who will come as a thief in the night, will remove Himself (His illumination) from the faithless. This is the sudden destruction that will come upon the faithless in 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

The topic under discussion was not end-of-the-age status of belief, but source of illumination in present times. Let's not muddy the waters by introducing a separate issue.

There is truth, and whether one accepts it or not. You acknowleded the truth that the he-goat is an entity on the other side of the planet from Iran and Iraq; why do you think someone else who was shown this fact which proved their supposition that the bible strictly regards the Middle East was wrong would not acknowledge the same?
This is not something hard to deduce as you infer.

I have already given several reasons why someone might not respond. You are doubling-down on assuming the worst motivation. I think that's ungracious of you, and having said so repeatedly, I will not discuss it further with you.

I will repeat what Revelation 12:9 states: "The whole world is currently deceived by Satan". This means I will sometimes have wrong perspectives due to Satan's false illumination convincing me of something being one way when in fact it is another. So too will you and everyone else experience the same deceptions by Satan and his minions.
The thing now is to recognize when we are deceived, and to acknowledge the fact; and not just run away and ignore as many here do.

It's certainly a good idea to admit when we're wrong in an appropriate and relevant context. I'm not sure that holding others to that standard is right though. I think the relevant principle here is "It is to one's glory to overlook an offense" (Proverbs 19:11).

I also am guilty of pride at times. I know this is not from God, because the Word tells me so; and that humility the inverse from pride is from God. How about yourself, are you deceived with pride?

Your question is an all-or-nothing proposition, which I reject as unsound.

 

[louis]

The topic under discussion was not end-of-the-age status of belief, but source of illumination in present times. Let's not muddy the waters by introducing a separate issue.

The end of status in end times indicates the present with the Lord currently providing illumiantion to all people, and thus the nations are not currently in total darkness as indicated they will be in Isaiah 60:2.
Through this reasoning we further see that faithless mankind will previously have choosen the devil's false illumination rather than truth.

I have already given several reasons why someone might not respond. You are doubling-down on assuming the worst motivation. I think that's ungracious of you, and having said so repeatedly, I will not discuss it further with you.

While there is the possibility of another reason why someone whose perspective is clearly shown to be wrong will leave without admitting their error; the greatest likelihood remains their having left due to their pride being hurt, knowing that they were wrong. It seems to me that you do not wish to acknowledge this truth.

It's certainly a good idea to admit when we're wrong in an appropriate and relevant context. I'm not sure that holding others to that standard is right though. I think the relevant principle here is "It is to one's glory to overlook an offense" (Proverbs 19:11).

I was not offended by someone not responding to my post. I'm merely pointing out the fact that someone departed from responding due to truth being manifest.

Your question is an all-or-nothing proposition, which I reject as unsound.

Psalm 8:13 [FONT=&quot]The fear of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is to hate evil: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]pride, and arrogancy,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.[/FONT]