Sex before marriage question

[AngelBoy]

When you have sex, you give away a big EMOTIONAL part of yourself that you can never get back.
Besides, you're an atheist, what are you doing giving a Christian moral advice?
That's like a Jew trying to help a Hindu with spiritual problem!

Look, sex may not be a big deal to you, but it is to me, and that's why I intend to wait. To me, sex isn't something you just do whenever you get the urge, it's supposed to be something beautiful, and meaningful, and done with the one you're going to spend the rest of your life with.

Why would I want to straddle just anybody I darn well please, to get off on animalistic urges?

 

[surrender2God]

Drop him like a hot potato, if he loved you, he would respect your decision to remain pure and not pressure you into anything.

 

[Willot]

To my recollection I haven't given any moral advice, sure I could say that I don't have any moral objection but what's that to you or the next man in line? I'm not trying to be one of the many opinions, all I'm saying is that contraception works the majority of the time and in the rare chance that it fails there are other methods of preventing childbirth.

I don't have any problem with you remaining abstinent, just means more for me (just messin btw)

 

[JimJimmers]

I'm sorry, but I don't think the statistics are right, Angelboy.
I've seen how condoms are made and they're built up like a fortress lol.
Also, if that fails then there's morning after pills and abortions.

I'm not recommending the latter but it all depends on your ethical grounds to be perfectly honest.



You reproduce more of it you know, there's not a finite amount xD

80-85% is a reliable stat Willot. How they're made is irrelevant, they fail about 15% of the time.

 

[Willot]

Well where do you get your statistics?

Condoms - Live Well - NHS Choices

There's where I got some of mine, I haven't found a web page yet (in my 5mins of research) that says they fail 15-20% of the time (assuming they're used correctly)

 

[JimJimmers]

Here you are. Unbiased reliable source. My Psychology textbook is a few years old, and had the figures slightly higher, which is where I pulled the original data. They don't fail 15% of the time when used correctly, so you could say that the "something burst" part was inaccurate, but in real-world use they fail roughly 15% of the time.

 

[Alex314]

"Abstinence is only 50% effective..." O.O
That doesn't even make any sense! I'm pretty sure people who don't have sex, don't have it. XD

The 50% refers to the fact that out of a hundred people saying they will practice abstinence until wedding, of those roughly half fail, and when they do have sex, they usually don't wear protection at all. Look at it this way. In the north of the States, premarital sex is not seen as so terrible a thing, but teenage pregnancies is a big thing. Protection is on average being more used, but despite premarital sex, teen pregnancy rates are lower. In the south, premarital sex is seen as a huge thing, but teen pregnancies not so much. Abstinence is practiced a lot more than using protection, and despite that, teen pregnancy rates are higher.

I practice abtsinence, and so far, I don't have any mommies with babies on the way for girlfriends, so I'd say abstinence has been pretty effective for me! In fact, I don't have any sexually transmitted diseases either! So really, I guess I'd say abstinence has been 100% effective for me! XD

That's fine for you. Like the stats say, you have a 50% chance of success. I don't know how old you are, but you have to wait out until wedding for abstinence to be 100% effective for you and you alone. 50% of abstinence only users don't get there.

...Nobody ever died, got infected, or got pregnant from abstinence.

Nobody ever died, got infected or got pregnant from using protection either. It's the act of having sex that is somewhat risky, and using protection is a means to lower that risk.

When you have sex, you give away a big EMOTIONAL part of yourself that you can never get back.

I agree, and studies in neurochemistry have shown that there are powerful changes in the brain after people have had sex for the first time, a rush of hormones and chemical signals changing how a person thinks.

Besides, you're an atheist, what are you doing giving a Christian moral advice?

How about a human being trying to help out another human being?

That's like a Jew trying to help a Hindu with spiritual problem!

If the Jew is able to help, why not?

Look, sex may not be a big deal to you, but it is to me, and that's why I intend to wait. To me, sex isn't something you just do whenever you get the urge, it's supposed to be something beautiful, and meaningful, and done with the one you're going to spend the rest of your life with.

I completely agree. To me, to have sex with someone is something one does to get carnal pleasure and nothing more. I don't want sex with someone, I want to make love to someone. The one bit I might disagree with is that 'spend the rest of your life' thing. Sex to me is in no way a binding contract for wedding. However, should one marry someone for sex instead of love?

Why would I want to straddle just anybody I darn well please, to get off on animalistic urges?

You'd be surprised just how strong hormonal impulses can be. Do remember that we are all animals of the Homo sapiens species, and we have urges just the same as every other living thing on the planet.
However, we have feelings, emotions and minds on top of that, which can serve to curb those urges and make smart decisions leading to later rather than instant gratification (abstinence for a loved one rather than sleeping around left and right). It's this conflict between what we are (an animal of the species Homo sapiens) and who we are (minds, personalities, thoughts) that determines how we live our lives.

 

[Alex314]

Oh and to all, the success rate of various prevention methods rely on the efficiency of the protection method used (a condom will never break or burst...) and the reliability of the person using it (unless you use 2 one on top of the other). Improper use can dramatically decrease the efficiency of condoms, say putting it on upside down then putting it on right can decrease the efficiency from 85% down to 50%. Female contraceptive methods sometimes don't have application issues (intra uterine device) in which case the efficiency is purely dependent on the success rate of that method. Pills, however efficient they are when used perfectly, can also dramatically fall when one forgets to take a pill on a give day, or even not taking pills at the same time every day. Then, there's the issue that the pills have a standard amount of hormones, and individuals may react more or less to those hormones, the variability in the people using such drugs means a variable success rate even if all other factors are eliminated.

 

[mystdancer50]

Hi,

I'm not a teen. I think I'll start with that disclaimer. Of course, you can see that by looking to the right of my avatar.

Here is what I will say: You are a valuable treasure. You are worth far more than what this world tells you that you are worth. This culture wants everyone to believe that premarital and extramarital sex is all right, that it is perfectly fine, and that, if you are safe, there are no consequences. This is a lie. You are bonded to every single person you are intimate with. Two become one flesh. Those who involve themselves in sex outside of marriage end up with a great deal of heartache and pain that is avoided if one saves sex for marriage.

Think about this: Every person that doesn't wait experiences a honeymoon not as an exciting time of affirming your marriage bond, but as another vacation. That's all it is. Sure, it may be a more exotic locale and you may be bound together legally now, not just sexually, but it's just another trip taken with someone you've taken trips with before. However, waiting for marriage to engage in sexual intimacy is priceless. Imagine the excitment all throughout the wedding ceremony, the anticipation throughout the celebration afterwards, and the knowledge that you waited, that you saved yourself, for the joys you will experience that night, whether in Paris or in a city an hour away or the first night together in your brand new home. However, if you've already slept together, where is all that excitment and joy and anticpation and specialness of the wedding night?

Tell yourself this: I am a treasure of great value and I am not for sale.

There is nothing glorious or beautiful about sex outside of marriage. No matter what precautions you take, there is nothing safe about sex outside of marriage. Save yourself for the one that is willing to wait with you, in anticipation for the wedding night and the many, many years of growing together in intimacy that follows. Don't sell yourself to the highest bidder, save yourself for the one that truly values you as God, your Father, values you. Wait because you deserve better than sex outside of marriage. Wait because you are worth waiting for!

 

[Alex314]

Hi,

I'm not a teen. I think I'll start with that disclaimer. Of course, you can see that by looking to the right of my avatar.

Here is what I will say: You are a valuable treasure. You are worth far more than what this world tells you that you are worth.

So far we agree.

This culture wants everyone to believe that premarital and extramarital sex is all right, that it is perfectly fine, and that, if you are safe, there are no consequences. This is a lie. You are bonded to every single person you are intimate with. Two become one flesh. Those who involve themselves in sex outside of marriage end up with a great deal of heartache and pain that is avoided if one saves sex for marriage.

I partially agree with this. There are consequences to everything, including waiting for marriage before having sex. The question is to weight all the pros and cons of both, and finding what would be best for you. Those involved in sex inside of marriage also end up with a great deal of heartache and pain that is avoided if one marries for love. You paint an idealized version of marriage, and I feel compelled to remind you of these bothersome statistics.
Divorce rate statistics - Countries Compared - NationMaster
The States of Marriage and Divorce - Pew Research Center
Especially that last bit at the end, where and I quote, [/quote=pew research center] Correlation also was tested to see whether a state's religiosity was associated with marriage and divorce patterns. Religiosity was expressed as the proportion of a state's residents who said in response to a survey that religion was "very important" in their life. However, this analysis did not find a strong association between a state's religiosity and its marriage or divorce patterns.[/quote]

Think about this: Every person that doesn't wait experiences a honeymoon not as an exciting time of affirming your marriage bond, but as another vacation. That's all it is. Sure, it may be a more exotic locale and you may be bound together legally now, not just sexually, but it's just another trip taken with someone you've taken trips with before. However, waiting for marriage to engage in sexual intimacy is priceless. Imagine the excitment all throughout the wedding ceremony, the anticipation throughout the celebration afterwards, and the knowledge that you waited, that you saved yourself, for the joys you will experience that night, whether in Paris or in a city an hour away or the first night together in your brand new home. However, if you've already slept together, where is all that excitment and joy and anticpation and specialness of the wedding night?

Think about this: you're reducing the honeymoon to a romantic sex romp with your partner. Forget love, trust, affection, it's all about sex, isn't it?
I do agree that it is something extremely special, I asked my mother and said had she known, she would have waited to meet my father, but I think that perhaps you are taking it a bit too far. You are devaluating everything marriage represents to uphold your point that you should wait until you're married to have sex. Where is all that excitment and joy and anticpation and specialness of the wedding night? Perhaps with the realization you are now officially wed with the person you love, that you have both exchanged vows to spend the rest of your lives together, that you will live together, eat together, sleep together, live together, love together with the person you cherish most. Notice that sexual relations are an important but small part of all that.

Tell yourself this: I am a treasure of great value and I am not for sale.

I completely agree.

There is nothing glorious or beautiful about sex outside of marriage.

I would agree that sex outside of marriage is nothing extraordinarily wonderful, however I would argue that making love to someone is, regardless of marital status. Sex is an act of reproduction and pleasure. Making love is an act of devotion, an act of intellectual and emotional commitment, it is about seeking to give the other more than what they expect, simply out of love, to always do your best, simply out of love, to try to fulfill their every wish and to make them as happy as can be, simply out of love. So yes, sex outside isn't fantastic. Sex inside marriage isn't all that fantastic either. What matters is love.

No matter what precautions you take, there is nothing safe about sex outside of marriage.

I could say that No matter what precautions you take, there is nothing safe about skydiving outside of marriage. Well, sorry, but skydiving (and sex) are just as dangerous inside and outside of marriage. Just because you are married does not mean that sexual diseases suddenly stop existing. It just means you are less likely to meet many people, one of whom may have sexual diseases.

Save yourself for the one that is willing to wait with you,

Completely agree with you!

in anticipation for the wedding night and the many, many years of growing together in intimacy that follows. Don't sell yourself to the highest bidder, save yourself for the one that truly values you as God, your Father, values you. Wait because you deserve better than sex outside of marriage. Wait because you are worth waiting for!

This I'm more iffy with, but I suppose those are tastes in matter of faith. To each their own, live and let live.
Wish you the best and that you find true love!

 

[mystdancer50]

I don't look at a honeymoon as a 'sex romp' but as a beautiful and powerful time for a husband and wife, a time of true intimacy and discovering the beauty of sex as God intends it. I also know about divorce rates in and out of the church. The important part of the statistics are missing, however, parts such as 1. were they sexually active before marriage; 2. did they have more than one partner before marriage; 3. were they unfaithful within the marriage, whether simply by flirting or oversharing emotion with the opposite sex or by out and out adultry; 4. (and this can only be answered in the heart of each person) was God truly centered and involved in your marriage?

I don't idealize marriage, however, I know that God intended marriage to be a safe place for true intimacy and love, a place to know and learn and grow together. Our culture has minimalized this. This is evident with your statement "all that matters is love", which is not true. If that were true, there wouldn't be so many issues with premarital sex and God wouldn't have established boundaries regarding sex and purity, which He most specifically did. What matters is God and His place in your life.

God is primary in my life. I am in no rush whatsoever to marry or to have sex. I am content, willing, and able to wait. Marriage is a wonderful, beautiful thing and to believe anything else is to look at what this world states marriage to be, not what God states it to be, which is two becoming one flesh. That is not to say that there won't be things that need to be worked through. Marriage does, in fact, involve two fallen people and one holy, amazing God, but isn't that part of the beauty and wonder of marriage? A safe place to be yourself, to learn how to love and be intimate, to become one flesh through intimacy and love, a safe place to change and grow and stretch and become?

Marriage is a high calling. So is being single. Sex outside of marriage may have its moments of excitement and thrill, but just as it is with all sin, it fades and it has its consequences. If both have waited and have entered marriage knowing what God intends for marriage, divorces wouldn't happen at extent they currently do.

Sex inside of marriage is the safest sex that exists. Why would God create something unsafe and encourage His children to do it? Once again, a poll would have to be done, because, honestly, the only times that an STD would enter the marriage bed is if one or both had had sex or near it with someone before marriage or had an affair while married or if they used drugs. STDs can be caught other ways, but this is extremely rare and avoided if educated.

Just some more thoughts.

 

[Alex314]

I don't look at a honeymoon as a 'sex romp' but as a beautiful and powerful time for a husband and wife, a time of true intimacy and discovering the beauty of sex as God intends it.

I find it curious that many claim that God's mind is inscrutable, yet so many claim to know what he was thinking...
I think the beauty of life is also in rediscovering the simple pleasures. In that sense, I could say that even for those who have had intimate relationships, a honeymoon is a beautiful and powerful time for a husband and wife, a time of true intimacy and rediscovering the beauty of sex. I won't say as 'God intends it' because I'm not going to unnecessarily separate people based on their faith or lack thereof. People are people are people. If some think of it as God, Allah, YWHW, Brahman, Buddha, whatever, so be it, so long as they restrict such judgements upon themselves and don't impose it on others.

I also know about divorce rates in and out of the church. The important part of the statistics are missing, however, parts such as 1. were they sexually active before marriage; 2. did they have more than one partner before marriage; 3. were they unfaithful within the marriage, whether simply by flirting or oversharing emotion with the opposite sex or by out and out adultry; 4. (and this can only be answered in the heart of each person) was God truly centered and involved in your marriage?

1 and 2 I truly do not know, 3 I would think would be strongly correlated to divorce,
(this seems to suggest that 14 Surprising Facts about Marriage, Affairs & Divorce - iVillage)
and 4 is up to personal preferences. I don't know if this would have an impact or not, what with religious people thinking their marriage was truly centered on God vs people's marriages who were actually centered on God. This can't be objectively determined, we can only observe the subjective feelings of the people.

I don't idealize marriage, however, I know that God intended marriage to be a safe place for true intimacy and love, a place to know and learn and grow together. Our culture has minimalized this.

I agree, with the condition of course that we reword that God bit to say that marriage should be a safe place to... But to each his own, I basically agree with what you say.

This is evident with your statement "all that matters is love", which is not true. If that were true, there wouldn't be so many issues with premarital sex and God wouldn't have established boundaries regarding sex and purity, which He most specifically did. What matters is God and His place in your life.

I think it is mostly the religious who are making issues about premarital sex, but I basically agree. Premarital sex would be much inferior to premarital love in my eyes. As for God establishing such boundaries, I'm not sure exactly where sex outside of marriage is described as fornication or if it is. I just find it interesting that in the OT if a newlywed wife is not 'pure' she is to be stoned, but it says nothing about the status of the man. Anyhow, Christians can listen to God, it is their right, but they cannot impose their religious commandments on others who do not share the same faith.

God is primary in my life.

If that makes you happy I have nothing against it.

I am in no rush whatsoever to marry or to have sex. I am content, willing, and able to wait. Marriage is a wonderful, beautiful thing

So far I am in complete agreement.

and to believe anything else is to look at what this world states marriage to be, not what God states it to be, which is two becoming one flesh. That is not to say that there won't be things that need to be worked through. Marriage does, in fact, involve two fallen people and one holy, amazing God, but isn't that part of the beauty and wonder of marriage? A safe place to be yourself, to learn how to love and be intimate, to become one flesh through intimacy and love, a safe place to change and grow and stretch and become?

Remove the religious bits (eg: the threesome between God an two fallen people) and again I agree completely.

Marriage is a high calling. So is being single. Sex outside of marriage may have its moments of excitement and thrill, but just as it is with all sin, it fades and it has its consequences.

Everything has consequences. However, it is up to us to try to minimize the negative consequences. Also, I don't know what high calling means

If both have waited and have entered marriage knowing what God intends for marriage, divorces wouldn't happen at extent they currently do.

I'm trying to find a study combining divorce rates for virgins, religious and non-religious people, but I just can't seem to find anything. Do you have any sources that would support this claim?

Sex inside of marriage is the safest sex that exists. Why would God create something unsafe and encourage His children to do it?

Everything is unsafe, there is no 100% safe thing to do. It's all about risk management. I understand what you mean, I just wanted to get that out.
As for safe sex, if you are married to someone who has contracted AIDS by non-sexual means, then it's a pretty risky thing to do regardless. Safety of sex does not depend upon the marital status of both people, but upon the health of both participants.

Once again, a poll would have to be done, because, honestly, the only times that an STD would enter the marriage bed is if one or both had had sex or near it with someone before marriage or had an affair while married or if they used drugs. STDs can be caught other ways, but this is extremely rare and avoided if educated.

Just some more thoughts.

I agree, we need to find a poll like that.

All in all, we agree on pretty much everything (except religious tenets of course, but that's up to the individual), what I think I disagree most with is that all people should be virgins and virgin marriages is the way to go. Back in the days (aka, most of human history), people married when they were younger than 20. Life expectancy has almost doubled, and the age for marriage has also almost doubled. Now, people have to wait more than twice as long with sexual impulses before marrying, and it becomes an increasingly difficult task. I don't know what the solution is, I'm just saying we should reconsider everything in a new light, not only according to old religious beliefs.

 

[mystdancer50]

I'm trying to find a study combining divorce rates for virgins, religious and non-religious people, but I just can't seem to find anything. Do you have any sources that would support this claim?

Unfortunately, no. That is the whole point. I think the polls, if they went deeper, would help to reveal things like what I said.

 

[Alex314]

Unfortunately, no. That is the whole point. I think the polls, if they went deeper, would help to reveal things like what I said.

Well, until we find a poll like that to definitely tell one way or the other, there's not much we can do

Take care!