sinless?

[ed]

Hi, This is a mystery to me.
Jesus born of Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit,sinless. So sin comes to mankind through men. Mary obviously was a sinner. Alll are sinners. Scripture says women are saved through childbirth. In the Garden, the snake was cursed to slide along the ground, (they still do this and thus seem to be fullfilling their punishment) and women were given pain in childbirth. (this still happens so they too are fullfilling their punsihment) but Adam wasnt cursed but the ground was cursed for him. So Adam still is without righteousness. Therefore sin is still in him.
So for the snake it is crawling on his belly,for women it is pain in childbirth and for men it is belief in Jesus Christ. what do you all think on this difficult issue.
walk in love
edwin

 

[wattie]

Ahhhh... sin's consequence for men is belief in Jesus Christ?

Is that what you are sayin?

Oh ya... and being 'saved' thru childbirth.. has nothing to do with eternal salvation.... altho you didn't really say that..

There is none righteous .. not one.. only righteous if we are made right by Jesus at salvation.

Adam.. sinned so did Eve.. so does every one

anyway.. I don really get your post yet

 

[greatkraw]

Hi, This is a mystery to me.
Jesus born of Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit,sinless. So sin comes to mankind through men. Mary obviously was a sinner. Alll are sinners. Scripture says women are saved through childbirth. In the Garden, the snake was cursed to slide along the ground, (they still do this and thus seem to be fullfilling their punishment) and women were given pain in childbirth. (this still happens so they too are fullfilling their punsihment) but Adam wasnt cursed but the ground was cursed for him. So Adam still is without righteousness. Therefore sin is still in him.
So for the snake it is crawling on his belly,for women it is pain in childbirth and for men it is belief in Jesus Christ. what do you all think on this difficult issue.
walk in love
edwin

if you read it carefully

the man's punishment is working for a living

why women want children AND working for a livingpuzzles me

 

[VW]

Death was the punishment. Remember that the devil said that they would surely not die. But they did.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Hi, This is a mystery to me.
Jesus born of Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit,sinless. So sin comes to mankind through men. Mary obviously was a sinner. Alll are sinners. Scripture says women are saved through childbirth. In the Garden, the snake was cursed to slide along the ground, (they still do this and thus seem to be fullfilling their punishment) and women were given pain in childbirth. (this still happens so they too are fullfilling their punsihment) but Adam wasnt cursed but the ground was cursed for him. So Adam still is without righteousness. Therefore sin is still in him.
So for the snake it is crawling on his belly,for women it is pain in childbirth and for men it is belief in Jesus Christ. what do you all think on this difficult issue.
walk in love
edwin

Jesus was not a blood relative of Mary as the blood comes from the father, so he did not have a fallen nature. You are perceptive about the woman being saved through childbearing. This is like a reverse type. A promise of God's grace in what is the most physically dangerous event in the life of most women turns into a living metaphor of the incarnation.

 

[MaggieMye]

Iniquity is passed down through the father. Jesus's father is God. Hence, no iniquity was found in Him. Mary was FAVORED, not sinless. She was favored because she was obedient and of a tender heart and also willing to be used of God.
The 'man' that is saved through faith in Christ refers to 'mankind' which includes women.

Maggie

 

[loveschild]

men it is belief in Jesus Christ

You lost me??????

 

[ed]

Ahhhh... sin's consequence for men is belief in Jesus Christ?

Is that what you are sayin?

Oh ya... and being 'saved' thru childbirth.. has nothing to do with eternal salvation.... altho you didn't really say that..

There is none righteous .. not one.. only righteous if we are made right by Jesus at salvation.

Adam.. sinned so did Eve.. so does every one

anyway.. I don really get your post yet

Hi Wattie,
I don't get it myself. These are just thoughts running around which pop up from time to time. As they popped up whilst I was here, I just thought I would unload them on you to see if some clarity would come.
love
edwin

 

[ed]

if you read it carefully

the man's punishment is working for a living

why women want children AND working for a livingpuzzles me

Hi greatkraw,
Thanks heaps for the imput. Your answer had me searching through the grey matter. I think what you have done is open another door, deeper down into the mystery. Sort of like a computer, I put an icon up and then you clicked on it and opened up another layer which stops who knows where. At the moment I think I need to stay on the surface level. I say these things thinking that the ground was cursed and then the consequence of that (another level) man had to work.
I hope I am explaining myself or if my thinking is cockeyed please keep at me until i bellow for relief.
love
edwin

 

[ed]

Death was the punishment. Remember that the devil said that they would surely not die. But they did.

Hi VW,
Thanks for joining in. I think you too have taken the subject to a deeper level. This is confusing for me. Is it possible to gnaw away at this mystery and stay on the surface?
love
edwin

 

[ed]

Jesus was not a blood relative of Mary as the blood comes from the father, so he did not have a fallen nature. You are perceptive about the woman being saved through childbearing. This is like a reverse type. A promise of God's grace in what is the most physically dangerous event in the life of most women turns into a living metaphor of the incarnation.

Hi charisenexcelcis,
Thanks for the great help. What you say is beyond my knowledge so may I ask some questions. The blood issue. Is there no DNA from a mother found in a child? Is that what you are saying? This childbearing issue is thin ice. Man (male) is called the head and if a female walks according to the word she is walking in submission to the husband. Her responsibility and salvation is in walking in submission to her husband. Therefore he bears the (a)? responsibility for her soul. Is that what Paul was about, women cant teach because in reality women aren't in Jesus. OOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I wish I was in a cupboard saying this. Did the women around Jesus marry and have children. This subject has gone over the cliff.
Forgive me my ignorance but it is a lot quicker to ask here than to search in scripture for however long.
On the subject of women preaching I have held to this verse Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male or female, for you are one in Christ Jesus.29 If you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. NIV
This seems very clearly to indicate that women were being baptised. Where are we up to?
walk in love
edwin.

 

[ed]

Iniquity is passed down through the father. Jesus's father is God. Hence, no iniquity was found in Him. Mary was FAVORED, not sinless. She was favored because she was obedient and of a tender heart and also willing to be used of God.
The 'man' that is saved through faith in Christ refers to 'mankind' which includes women.

Maggie

Hi MaggieMye,
Thank you for your help. Are you of the opinion then that children, male and female receive their sin from the father only. In effect sin can not be passed to children through women. I suppose the whole point is mute because without sperm there can be no children so sin only needs to come from one party, not two. Very interesting, also interesting that man (male) was chosen to be the bearer of sin even though it was the women (eve) who fell to temptation. You comment that women are also saved through faith in Jesus (works out her own salvation) so where does that leave childbirth remembering that Acts 16:29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved- you and your household." ......"and all his family were baptized"
love
edwin

 

[ed]

men it is belief in Jesus Christ

You lost me??????

Hi loveschild,
I am all tangled up too.
love
edwin

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Hi charisenexcelcis,
Thanks for the great help. What you say is beyond my knowledge so may I ask some questions. The blood issue. Is there no DNA from a mother found in a child? Is that what you are saying?
No. Sin is not in the DNA. It is not the physical that is the issue. Our souls (a type of life) are corrupt because we are blood relatives of Adam. God said "the life (or soul) is in the blood." There are some who believe that God created the body of Jesus in Mary's womb, but I am afraid that I hold to this more complicated view. In the beginning God said that the serpant (Satan) would be crushed by the child of a woman, not a child of a man.
This childbearing issue is thin ice. Man (male) is called the head and if a female walks according to the word she is walking in submission to the husband. Her responsibility and salvation is in walking in submission to her husband. Therefore he bears the (a)? responsibility for her soul. Is that what Paul was about, women cant teach because in reality women aren't in Jesus. OOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I wish I was in a cupboard saying this. Did the women around Jesus marry and have children. This subject has gone over the cliff.
Man's role in the marriage is a covenant with God. Woman who are not "covered" by a believing husband are still able to obtain salvation. Yes, the man bears a responsibility, but when they fail, god is the "covering" for them inside the covenant of marriage.
Forgive me my ignorance but it is a lot quicker to ask here than to search in scripture for however long.
What I was saying is that Pauls statement that women would be saved (read protected) through childbearing becomes a backwards prophecy that we are saved through the fruit of a woman's womb.
On the subject of women preaching I have held to this verse Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male or female, for you are one in Christ Jesus.29 If you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. NIV
This seems very clearly to indicate that women were being baptised. Where are we up to?
Many would see me as very "liberal" on my view of women in ministry. The New Testament describes how it ought to be, with men fulfilling their responsibilities under the covenant of marriage. That would extend to the church, with men guarding the souls of their wives and children. However, it closes no ministry office to women. And when men fail to be the elders and the tablewaiters, then the women are left having to do what needs to be done.
walk in love
edwin.

Hope this was helpful.

 

[ed]

Hope this was helpful.

Hi charisenexcelcis,
Thank you very much for the detailed response. It will take me a while to digest it all as it is new to me. I have questions but maybe some will resolve themselves if I sit on the issues.
On another matter, how do you dissect a post and quote passages separately from the whole post.
love
edwin.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Hi charisenexcelcis,
Thank you very much for the detailed response. It will take me a while to digest it all as it is new to me. I have questions but maybe some will resolve themselves if I sit on the issues.
On another matter, how do you dissect a post and quote passages separately from the whole post.
love
edwin.

I would tell you, but that would be the blind leading the blind. Any technogeeks out there that can handle this question? I'm better at Greek and theology than the computer stuff. For that I call my sons...lol.

 

[pickles]

I hope this helps, Ill lok up later.
But Paul stated in one of his letters that there is only one sin, that commited through Adam resulting in death.
Thats why there is only only one sacrifice in Jesus for our sin. Result, eternal life!
God bless, pickles

 

[Glowing]

Hi ED; You said you were looking for undrestanding reguarding Gen:CH:3 Ver:14; where it says Upon thy belly shalt thou go,and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.

You know how in shool,when a teacher is teaching you things,and you sometimes,wonder, WHY? are they teaching me This?

But,with continued study,one day you come to the realization, OH YA!; thats why the teacher taught me that. Otherwise I would have never understood ,what the teacher is teaching NOW!

Well this is what I have come to conclude about this; Just another point of view to Consider.

First; this is a Salvage Operation SALVATION!

It is NOT only thought Conciousnesses that have the Abilty to Last Forever;But also ALL those Precious Metals & Gems.

From what I have been able to asertain from this statement with futher studies in the original scriptuers is this.

While I AM explaining to ALL MY Children; this Despicable Act YOU have done satan and WHY I AM So Upset; For MY Children have NEVER seen ME

Angry Before YOU DID THIS! (exposed US to a Carnivour)(Defiled MY Family)

YOU(satan) are going to Pick-UP the rest of this MESS,that YOU(satan) have caused ME(Our Father) to make!

The When ALL MY Children,UNDERSTAND! What You have done; NOT ME!

Then I AM going to Execute MY JUDGEMENT Against YOU!

Just some food for thought.

Love & Peace FOREVER in CHRIST!!!

 

[ed]

I hope this helps, Ill lok up later.
But Paul stated in one of his letters that there is only one sin, that commited through Adam resulting in death.
Thats why there is only only one sacrifice in Jesus for our sin. Result, eternal life!
God bless, pickles

hi Pickles,
wow that is a thread all of its own.
love
edwin

 

[ed]

Hi ED; You said you were looking for undrestanding reguarding Gen:CH:3 Ver:14; where it says Upon thy belly shalt thou go,and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.

You know how in shool,when a teacher is teaching you things,and you sometimes,wonder, WHY? are they teaching me This?

But,with continued study,one day you come to the realization, OH YA!; thats why the teacher taught me that. Otherwise I would have never understood ,what the teacher is teaching NOW!

Well this is what I have come to conclude about this; Just another point of view to Consider.

First; this is a Salvage Operation SALVATION!

It is NOT only thought Conciousnesses that have the Abilty to Last Forever;But also ALL those Precious Metals & Gems.

From what I have been able to asertain from this statement with futher studies in the original scriptuers is this.

While I AM explaining to ALL MY Children; this Despicable Act YOU have done satan and WHY I AM So Upset; For MY Children have NEVER seen ME

Angry Before YOU DID THIS! (exposed US to a Carnivour)(Defiled MY Family)

YOU(satan) are going to Pick-UP the rest of this MESS,that YOU(satan) have caused ME(Our Father) to make!

The When ALL MY Children,UNDERSTAND! What You have done; NOT ME!

Then I AM going to Execute MY JUDGEMENT Against YOU!

Just some food for thought.

Love & Peace FOREVER in CHRIST!!!

Hi Glowing,
Thank you for joining in this discussion. I am struggling with your answer.I guess I have not ventured far from the regular path in my understanding and now you have come out of left field. I did play football and had (many years ago) wide vision but I am back at narrow vision. You have put me back looking with a wider angle lens.
love
edwin