The Bible is God-breathed (Spirit-breathed), but ...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#1
The Holy Bible, OT and NT, is God-breathed (Holy Spirit breathed), but unless one is given the Holy Spirit as a gift, as the LORD and Giver of life, one will not necessarily truly understand the Holy Bible. John 16:13 says Christ will give the Holy Spirit to His disciples in the NT. It does not promise the Holy Spirit to every one who came after in the 2000 years since then. Indeed, many people today do not have the Holy Spirit, because they misinterpret Scripture.
People who badly interpret and misinterpret the OT and NT

Mormons LDS
Armstrongists (Herbert W. Armstrong) Former Worldwide Church of God
Seventh-Day Adventists
Christadelphians
Swedenborgians
Jehovah's Witnesses
Assemblies of Yahweh (Jacob O. Meyer)
Unification church (Moonies)
Way International (Victor Paul Wierwille)
United Pentecostal church (Oneness pentecostals/Sabellians)
Etc.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#2
The Holy Bible, OT and NT, is God-breathed (Holy Spirit breathed), but unless one is given the Holy Spirit as a gift, as the LORD and Giver of life, one will not necessarily truly understand the Holy Bible. John 16:13 says Christ will give the Holy Spirit to His disciples in the NT. It does not promise the Holy Spirit to every one who came after in the 2000 years since then. Indeed, many people today do not have the Holy Spirit, because they misinterpret Scripture.
People who badly interpret and misinterpret the OT and NT

Mormons LDS
Armstrongists (Herbert W. Armstrong) Former Worldwide Church of God
Seventh-Day Adventists
Christadelphians
Swedenborgians
Jehovah's Witnesses
Assemblies of Yahweh (Jacob O. Meyer)
Unification church (Moonies)
Way International (Victor Paul Wierwille)
United Pentecostal church (Oneness pentecostals/Sabellians)
Etc.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
If you believe you have been given the Holy Spirit, how do you know you have the Holy Spirit within? What do the scriptures say in this regard?
 
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#3
If you believe you have been given the Holy Spirit, how do you know you have the Holy Spirit within? What do the scriptures say in this regard?

You didn't pay attention to what I said. Let's start there, okay? Does the Spirit draw people away from the Church? No! (See 1 Tim. 3:15).
How can people who have the Holy Spirit within incorrectly interpret the Bible?
Having the Spirit is known by the understanding and obeying of what the Bible says (keeping the commandments of God), and by love: love of God, love of neighbors as oneself. Many people have the Holy Spirit. I believe that I'll be given the Holy Spirit when I am baptized and chrismated in the Orthodox Church. That hasn't happened yet.
 

duewell

Senior Member
Mar 5, 2011
350
9
18
#4
whats funny is when it happens to you how no one in any church understands what you're talking about. its a different level of understanding.

duewell
 
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#5
...I believe that I'll be given the Holy Spirit when I am baptized and chrismated in the Orthodox Church. That hasn't happened yet.
Scott, if your church is teaching you that, you should seek another. If you are a Christian, meaning you have acted on Romans 10:9, you are saved and you have the gift of holy spirit. What the EOC says does not matter.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#6
The Holy Bible, OT and NT, is God-breathed (Holy Spirit breathed), but unless one is given the Holy Spirit as a gift, as the LORD and Giver of life, one will not necessarily truly understand the Holy Bible.

That is not true, if one reads the Bible and chooses not to obey it, it does not mean he did not understand but that he chose not to obey.

John 16:13 says Christ will give the Holy Spirit to His disciples in the NT. It does not promise the Holy Spirit to every one who came after in the 2000 years since then. Indeed, many people today do not have the Holy Spirit, because they misinterpret Scripture.
People who badly interpret and misinterpret the OT and NT
Christ did not promise that all who believe will be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
The promise of the Spirit in Jn 16:13 was to the Apostles, not everyone who believes.
It is a contiuation of :
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

If we could remember everything that Christ taught word for word, there would be no need for scripture.
This was made to the Apostles because they wrote everything that he said, that we now have in the Bible.
We are commanded to study in order to understand the Bible:
II TIm 2:15 - "study to shew thyself approved unto God , a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth"
see also the example in Acts 17:11.
Mormons LDS
Armstrongists (Herbert W. Armstrong) Former Worldwide Church of God
Seventh-Day Adventists
Christadelphians
Swedenborgians
Jehovah's Witnesses
Assemblies of Yahweh (Jacob O. Meyer)
Unification church (Moonies)
Way International (Victor Paul Wierwille)
United Pentecostal church (Oneness pentecostals/Sabellians)
Etc.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

And you, you have misinterpreted the book of John
 
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#7
Scott, if your church is teaching you that, you should seek another. If you are a Christian, meaning you have acted on Romans 10:9, you are saved and you have the gift of holy spirit. What the EOC says does not matter.

So, you're the church? Isn't the Church "the pillar and ground of the truth"? (1 Tim. 3:15). What do you do with "He that endureth to the end shall be saved"? It doesn't say "is saved". It says "shall be" (in the future).
Salvation is a journey, not just an "instant experience". I believe I am being saved, and God's grace alone is saving me. That doesn't mean it is unconditional. It depends on enduring in faith.
Why do you say what the Church says does not matter, when it was the Church that gave the Bible?
The Bible wouldn't even exist if it were'nt for Israel and the NT Church, with Israel as the OT Church.
Too many people think they themselves are the Truth. Too many people say the EOC is wrong, when it is they themselves who are in error.
 
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#8

That is not true, if one reads the Bible and chooses not to obey it, it does not mean he did not understand but that he chose not to obey.



Christ did not promise that all who believe will be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
The promise of the Spirit in Jn 16:13 was to the Apostles, not everyone who believes.
It is a contiuation of :
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

If we could remember everything that Christ taught word for word, there would be no need for scripture.
This was made to the Apostles because they wrote everything that he said, that we now have in the Bible.
We are commanded to study in order to understand the Bible:
II TIm 2:15 - "study to shew thyself approved unto God , a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth"
see also the example in Acts 17:11.

And you, you have misinterpreted the book of John


Friend, Who is misinterpreting the whole book of St. John? That's a pretty sweeping statement. Do you really mean that? Can you prove it? Or are you just making a false accusation?
God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#9
'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#10
Friend, Who is misinterpreting the whole book of St. John? That's a pretty sweeping statement. Do you really mean that? Can you prove it? Or are you just making a false accusation?
God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
Well you gave a pretty big list of churches that you say mis-interprete the Bible, is that not a "sweeping statement", and although I am not defending those churches I am asking you to prove this promise was to all believers, when the context is talking to the Apostles.

if you trace back the pronouns of ch 16 you will see who being told this:

Joh 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

who is "you" in this passage?
You have to keep going back - This is a continuation starting in Jn chapter 13. Remember man put the chapter breaks in the Bible they are not in the original tongue.

So go read John chapter 13 and then you will see who is present during this lesson Christ gives, you will find it was those present with Jesus when he washed there feet.

Christ promises them they will recieve the Holy Spirit and understand all things and remember whatsoever he said to them.

This is fulfilled in the Book of Acts:

Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
"ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost" is made to "them" which are the Apostles - Acts 1:2.

This is seen in Acts 2 when the Apostles are together in the upper room and are baptized with the Holy Spirit,
Acts 2:1-4 - this is where they receive the promise.

This is why they suddenly understood all things pertaining to the kingdom of God and were able to preach and write what they were supposed to, our job today is to read what they wrote because it is God-breathed.
I encourage you to at least go and read the context and see who is being spoken to here.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#11
'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
The passage you are quoting is originally from the book of Joel chapter 2:

So when was this fulfilled?

According to Acts chapter 2, it was fulfilled thousands of years ago on the day of Pentecost, as Peter and the rest were showing great miracles and adding people for the first time to the church - Acts 2:47.

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Ac
 
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#12
Well you gave a pretty big list of churches that you say mis-interprete the Bible, is that not a "sweeping statement", and although I am not defending those churches I am asking you to prove this promise was to all believers, when the context is talking to the Apostles.

if you trace back the pronouns of ch 16 you will see who being told this:

Joh 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

who is "you" in this passage?
You have to keep going back - This is a continuation starting in Jn chapter 13. Remember man put the chapter breaks in the Bible they are not in the original tongue.

So go read John chapter 13 and then you will see who is present during this lesson Christ gives, you will find it was those present with Jesus when he washed there feet.

Christ promises them they will recieve the Holy Spirit and understand all things and remember whatsoever he said to them.

This is fulfilled in the Book of Acts:

Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
"ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost" is made to "them" which are the Apostles - Acts 1:2.

This is seen in Acts 2 when the Apostles are together in the upper room and are baptized with the Holy Spirit,
Acts 2:1-4 - this is where they receive the promise.

This is why they suddenly understood all things pertaining to the kingdom of God and were able to preach and write what they were supposed to, our job today is to read what they wrote because it is God-breathed.
I encourage you to at least go and read the context and see who is being spoken to here.

Friend, You didn't prove I am misinterpreting even part of St. John's Gospel, let alone every verse in it. God bless you. In Erie Scott R. Harrington
 
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#14
ok man I guess context doesnt matter if just believe what want

Dear feedm:
Of course context matters. So, what's your point? Just to make sure we're talking about the same verse (verses) in John, here we are!
"Yet I have many things to say to you, but ye are not able to bear them just now. But whenever that One, the Spirit of the truth, should come, He will guide you into all the truth; for He shall not speak from Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear He shall speak; and He shall announce the coming things to you." St. John 16:12-13 ONT Volume 1; page 451.
The context of these 2 verses makes clear Christ is speaking to His Apostles/Disciples back then 2,000 years ago. It takes further evidence and proof as to whether these verses are also intended for anyone else. He spoke to His Church. Then. Well, where is His Church today? So, that's the basic question that needs a correct answer.
The correct answer.
ONT Orthodox New Testament 2 vols. Buena Vista, CO: Holy Apostles Convent, 2000.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS I believe John 17 provides the answer. It speaks of those who believe. And Christ prays for Unity among them. And for those who will believe through the testimony of those who believed in His day, the Apostles. So, it does deal with the followers of the followers of the followers of Christ, in all generations of the Church, until the second coming of Her Lord Jesus Christ.