The conversion methods of the 10th centuary

[MahogonySnail]

Let's consider the conversion methods of the 10th centuary and see what we can learn from them.

First Raud the Strong, who after refusing to convert, was sentenced to death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raud_the_Strong

But Raud refused, saying he would never believe in Christ, and mocked God. Olaf became incensed and said Raud should die a horrible death. The king ordered him to be bound to a beam of wood, with his face pointed upward, and a round pin of wood put between his teeth to force his mouth open. The king then ordered a snake to be put into Raud’s mouth, but the snake would not go in. Olaf then ordered a drinking horn to be put into Ruad’s mouth, and forced the serpent to go in by holding a red-hot iron at the opening of the horn. As a result, the snake crept into Ruad’s mouth and down his throat, and gnawed its way out his side and Raud died.


Can we learn anything?

 

[DieuMerci]

What is their source for that? Is it a reliable witness, i.e. one who possesses the Spirit of truth? Are there more than one witness to that? Also, was it during the crusades?

 

[socperkins]

That you need a hot poker and a funnel before getting the snake riled up.

Seriously though, the only person they're helping by killing a non-believer is Satan. I think we should avoid the killing part.

 

[EnochxGenesis]

That you need a hot poker and a funnel before getting the snake riled up.

Seriously though, the only person they're helping by killing a non-believer is Satan. I think we should avoid the killing part.

wow, you're a genius. ^_^ we should avoid killing people, I'm sure no one else has thought that.

your post certainly wasn't a waste of space.

 

[MahogonySnail]

A few questions we can discuss about this:

Does God permit state sanctioned killing of non-converts or unbelievers if the countries legal system allows it? Think Taliban/radical Islamists. If not today, why did God permit it in the past? The bible says, the authories dont' bear the sword in vain. Isn't this case of Raud the Strong simply the authorities using their God-given right to wield a sword?

What is the difference between state sanctioned killing in the 10th centuary for God's enemies and state-sanctioned killing of God's enemies in the old testament?
Same God, same scripture, "God does not change".

What is the difference between Christian authorities killing non-converts a few centuaries ago, and Islamic militants killing non-converts today?

Is what stops our authorities in our western civilisations today killing non-converts, biblical principles, or is it rather the advances we have made in democracy and human rights which are largely based upon deist, philosophical or humanist principles?

 

[socperkins]

wow, you're a genius. ^_^ we should avoid killing people, I'm sure no one else has thought that.

your post certainly wasn't a waste of space.

Neither was yours

In 1 Samuel when Israel asked for a king, Samuel warned about the corruption that would come from that. Governments are worldly institutions, and if the leaders don't keep in touch with God then things quickly go sour. Killing is wrong, and the only time it is allowed in the Bible is when God gives the order. I don't believe God gave Olaf the order to kill Raud, and I don't believe God ordered the murders of thousands in the inquisition. Who am I to say though, I wasn't there. As far as radical Islamists killing infidels, they have a different God than us, so I'm sure that what they're doing is wrong.

Paul tells us to obey our governments. If my government ordered me to kill somebody or else they'd kill me, I guess I'd be meeting God. If I erred in my decision, I'm sure He'll forgive me.

 

[suaso]

Let's consider the conversion methods of the 10th centuary and see what we can learn from them......Can we learn anything?

Yeah:
1. The 10th Century was not a fun time to live in for the majority of the world, because stuff like this was considered "normal" in the West.
2. Never anger a Viking.

It's important to put things into context to better understand them. The 10th Century was a pretty unstable time. In places like Norway, you had these folks rising to power and trying to maintain it as best they could. It was considered useful for folks like King Olaf to accept Christianity. This wasn't so much because he was just so won over by the gospel, but most likely because as the leader of a backwoods kingdom in an unimportant part of the world, it's nice to have bigger and more lucrative partners on the global scene, who at that time would be the more prominent leaders and kingdoms of Christendom.

The conversion of Olaf to Christianity was likely for political reasons. Become a Christian, and you get really awesome allies in more important parts of the world who have really powerful armies and really sweet trading potential. It isn't enough to convert yourself to their religion, you gotta convert your whole kingdom too, or else your really powerful new Christian BFFs might not be so willing to fight for you largely heathen territory. So, folks standing between you and power are those who won't convert! The prime leaders of this conversion resistance: heathen priests and their supporters. Kill the head and the body dies, dispose the priests and the people will convert.

Olaf wasn't right to torture the guy or have him killed. He was a politician and a ruler and had to solidify his kingdom in order to maintain ties to Christendom for the betterment of his kingdom's success (read: his own power). That's what politicians did before Christianity, that is what they do after Christianity. Some are more extreme than others. For people like Olaf, Christianity was one means to and end, and that end was his maintaing of power.

As for the Islamists, they may be thinking along the lines of Olaf. The middle east was never as powerful as when it was converted to Islam ( many countries that are Islamic were once had major populations that were Christian). To maintain this power, Islam must be preserved and it must be spread to other places so that power can be extended into those areas.