The works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification

[homwardbound]

So you have scripture to back up the self being the same as flesh? Again, I see them separate. When you say self, are you referring to the old, unregenerated man? Because we all, as Christians, have a good side to our self as well.

This good side of the self that we are born with the knowledge of good and evil, is the old self.
The new self is dead to the old, and it is the hidden man of the heart that one now follows and listens to just as Christ did. So in actuality you the new you is hidden in God through Christ and you yourself old or new is not you doing any of the works, it is now God through you as this is what Christ did as led, so in essence God gets all the credit, as Christ said it to the rich man in Matt 19 why do you call me good, for only my Father is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hope you now get it only God can reveal his to you

 

[homwardbound]

Psa_119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Psa_119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
You missed it sir. Intentions, do not move the hand of God, faith does.
No one questions the will of God concerning salvation, which by the way, is a work of the flesh, because they came to Christ for selfish motives or for self preservation. That being to save themselves some serious pain and torment from the judgements of God.
Please interpret the words of the scripture below, and not what you believe it to mean or what you believe it is saying. Don't add anything to it, just tell me what the words say, if you would please.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Each section of this sentence is loaded with truth. So, what all is this verse saying as it is written, without the help of the other verses that go with it, that being verses 22 - 26?

without the context, verses get distorted and you asked to interpret without the context, no can do of what is truthfully being said
By themselves are deceiving the flesh

 

[homwardbound]

ABSOLUTELY!!! It is God who does the work, not me. But He wouldn't have done a thing if I didn't apply the faith of Jesus that is in me, to the situation.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

in is receiving that one gains what is truth, and receiving comes from God only

 

[know1]

without the context, verses get distorted and you asked to interpret without the context, no can do of what is truthfully being said
By themselves are deceiving the flesh

Alright, I will do it for you, and I will do it in context.
Jesus cursed the fig tree the day before, peter mentions it to Him, and Jesus tells Peter how He did it or what is required to do the same thing He did as well as anything else.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them,
Have faith in God. [or have the faith of God, or have God's faith]
Meaning, this is how you use God's faith. And He proceeds to tell them how to use the faith of God.]


Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, [verily means that it is a true statement (in verses 23 and 24) in and of itself, and that it doesn't need help from other verses to make it the whole truth or council of God.]

That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, [whosoever meaning, who ever has the faith of God in them.
shall say means, to boldly speak to or command verbally, as Jesus did the fig tree or with Lazarus at the tomb. the mountain can be anything, it is symbolic of something big and impossible to do]

and shall not doubt in his heart, [that means you have to know it will happen, not being double minded or wondering if it is God's will, being confident and sure.]

but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; [another way of saying, not doubting in your heart what you have just said or commanded will happen or come to pass, but believing. If you really and truly believe something, you will act on it.]

he shall have whatsoever he saith. [you will have the thing you just said, or the thing you just commanded to be done will be done for you. Again, whatsoever means, what ever or anything or everything. And saith is, a spoken command or what you said verbally.]


Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, [this is in conjunction with the previous verse, so it is therefore the truth]

What things soever ye desire, [simply put, what ever you desire or want, or what ever thing you really want]

when ye pray, [i see this to be more on the asking side but it could be on the commanding side as well.]

believe that ye receive them, [that is, believe you have already received the thing you just asked for, or believe that it is already done or given to you. Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. this verse is saying the same thing]

and ye shall have them. [and it's yours or you will have it in the natural world or in this life.]


Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Did I distort, twist, add to, or take anything away from the words or the meaning of the above verses?

 

[homwardbound]

Alright, I will do it for you, and I will do it in context.
Jesus cursed the fig tree the day before, peter mentions it to Him, and Jesus tells Peter how He did it or what is required to do the same thing He did as well as anything else.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them,
Have faith in God. [or have the faith of God, or have God's faith]
Meaning, this is how you use God's faith. And He proceeds to tell them how to use the faith of God.]


Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, [verily means that it is a true statement (in verses 23 and 24) in and of itself, and that it doesn't need help from other verses to make it the whole truth or council of God.]

That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, [whosoever meaning, who ever has the faith of God in them.
shall say means, to boldly speak to or command verbally, as Jesus did the fig tree or with Lazarus at the tomb. the mountain can be anything, it is symbolic of something big and impossible to do]

and shall not doubt in his heart, [that means you have to know it will happen, not being double minded or wondering if it is God's will, being confident and sure.]

but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; [another way of saying, not doubting in your heart what you have just said or commanded will happen or come to pass, but believing. If you really and truly believe something, you will act on it.]

he shall have whatsoever he saith. [you will have the thing you just said, or the thing you just commanded to be done will be done for you. Again, whatsoever means, what ever or anything or everything. And saith is, a spoken command or what you said verbally.]


Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, [this is in conjunction with the previous verse, so it is therefore the truth]

What things soever ye desire, [simply put, what ever you desire or want, or what ever thing you really want]

when ye pray, [i see this to be more on the asking side but it could be on the commanding side as well.]

believe that ye receive them, [that is, believe you have already received the thing you just asked for, or believe that it is already done or given to you. Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. this verse is saying the same thing]

and ye shall have them. [and it's yours or you will have it in the natural world or in this life.]


Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Did I distort, twist, add to, or take anything away from the words or the meaning of the above verses?

yes, one's motive, either of flesh self gain, or of God prompting one to do it as Elijah, Moses, Abraham, Noah, unless the vine abide in the tree there is no life.
Again it is all God's doing, been healed over night from right lung stabbed and lost all the air in chest, collapsed lung, after I was in intensive care and the air was drawn out of my chest, by the doctor, I was thus then being healed by God and knew it. In intensive care they have to test you fro vital signs every half hour, and this kept me from what I knew God was doing for me.
I had to sign myself out and went home and the next day there was not even a scab on my back where that knife punctured me
Now today I am in another dilemma, had foreigners Gangrene, parts removed and so much turmoil, after this, and am still trusting God for God's will as to what is next, and so far it is not instant healing or overnight, it is just trust him, so I go through this trusting God that all works out to God's good somehow someway, and I know this, nothing has been able to change my mind from this. Even though evil has tried just as in Job, yet I am standing fast, knowing as Job knew, not to curse God

 

[know1]

Alright, I will do it for you, and I will do it in context.
Jesus cursed the fig tree the day before, peter mentions it to Him, and Jesus tells Peter how He did it or what is required to do the same thing He did as well as anything else.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them,
Have faith in God. [or have the faith of God, or have God's faith]
Meaning, this is how you use God's faith. And He proceeds to tell them how to use the faith of God.]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, [verily means that it is a true statement (in verses 23 and 24) in and of itself, and that it doesn't need help from other verses to make it the whole truth or council of God.]

That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, [whosoever meaning, who ever has the faith of God in them.
shall say means, to boldly speak to or command verbally, as Jesus did the fig tree or with Lazarus at the tomb. the mountain can be anything, it is symbolic of something big and impossible to do]

and shall not doubt in his heart, [that means you have to know it will happen, not being double minded or wondering if it is God's will, being confident and sure.]

but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; [another way of saying, not doubting in your heart what you have just said or commanded will happen or come to pass, but believing. If you really and truly believe something, you will act on it.]

he shall have whatsoever he saith. [you will have the thing you just said, or the thing you just commanded to be done will be done for you. Again, whatsoever means, what ever or anything or everything. And saith is, a spoken command or what you said verbally.]

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, [this is in conjunction with the previous verse, so it is therefore the truth]

What things soever ye desire, [simply put, what ever you desire or want, or what ever thing you really want]

when ye pray, [i see this to be more on the asking side but it could be on the commanding side as well.]

believe that ye receive them, [that is, believe you have already received the thing you just asked for, or believe that it is already done or given to you. Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. this verse is saying the same thing]

and ye shall have them. [and it's yours or you will have it in the natural world or in this life.]

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Did I distort, twist, add to, or take anything away from the words or the meaning of the above verses?

This is what the law of faith is and where the works, that James spoke of, come in. This is the kind of works that is to justification. Obeying the laws of God, I believe, are works of the flesh but at the same time it is right living or living a righteous life, but it will not safe you or cause you to keep your salvation, not will it cause one to get it back if they were to lose it through disobedience or breaking the commandments of God.
Verse 23 is about death and life is in the power of the tongue, and calling things which be not as though they were, and command ye me concerning the works of my hands, and guarding your heart for out of it flow the issues of life, and holding fast to your profession of faith, and so on.
Verse 24 is about whatsoever you shall ask the father in Jesus' name, He will give it you, and ask and it shall be given you, for everyone that asks, receives, and all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive, and again, ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

 

[know1]

yes, one's motive, either of flesh self gain, or of God prompting one to do it as Elijah, Moses, Abraham, Noah, unless the vine abide in the tree there is no life.
Again it is all God's doing, been healed over night from right lung stabbed and lost all the air in chest, collapsed lung, after I was in intensive care and the air was drawn out of my chest, by the doctor, I was thus then being healed by God and knew it. In intensive care they have to test you fro vital signs every half hour, and this kept me from what I knew God was doing for me.
I had to sign myself out and went home and the next day there was not even a scab on my back where that knife punctured me
Now today I am in another dilemma, had foreigners Gangrene, parts removed and so much turmoil, after this, and am still trusting God for God's will as to what is next, and so far it is not instant healing or overnight, it is just trust him, so I go through this trusting God that all works out to God's good somehow someway, and I know this, nothing has been able to change my mind from this. Even though evil has tried just as in Job, yet I am standing fast, knowing as Job knew, not to curse God

Glory to God for your healing! How did it come about? Did you pray or did someone else?

 

[NiceneCreed]

Are works of the law the same as works of faith? And if not, then what's the difference?

I have numerous verses which provide examples of "works of faith" and "works of the law." Incidentally, I am currently studying the Book of Romans for school, and you cannot study Romans without also studying James. I am really tired and need to get some sleep, but if someone hasn't already by tomorrow, I will provide you with those examples I talked about, and I will also do my best to clarify whatever other concerns you might potentially have about the seeming contradictions between Paul and James' teachings. You would be surprised to find that both James and Paul actually compliment one-another, contrary to an unfortunate and popular misconception.


Grace and Peace!

 

[know1]

I have numerous verses which provide examples of "works of faith" and "works of the law." Incidentally, I am currently studying the Book of Romans for school, and you cannot study Romans without also studying James. I am really tired and need to get some sleep, but if someone hasn't already by tomorrow, I will provide you with those examples I talked about, and I will also do my best to clarify whatever other concerns you might potentially have about the seeming contradictions between Paul and James' teachings. You would be surprised to find that both James and Paul actually compliment one-another, contrary to an unfortunate and popular misconception.


Grace and Peace!

I would be interested in reading that. Thanks.

 

[homwardbound]

Glory to God for your healing! How did it come about? Did you pray or did someone else?

It was, happened in transition from Las Vegas, NV. to Utah, where I had a job to come to, on the way, I went to emergency room and spent 3 weeks under surgery after surgery to remove all the gangrene. Been disabled every since and am learning to count this a good thing, not a bad one.

 

[NiceneCreed]

I would be interested in reading that. Thanks.

Hello there! I did not forget what I said, and I still intend on providing you with those verses I said I would. As it turns out, my professor wants for me to write a short 20 page research paper on the same topic: Works of The Law and Works of Faith. So once I have completed my paper, I thought I would be able to share the information with you at that time. At the very least, I am hoping I will be able to provide you with a better quality response regarding why James' and Paul's statements about faith and works are actually complimentary and not contradictory; this will, however, take up to several weeks to write the paper. Anyway, I can't wait to share with you what I learn over the course of the next few weeks. Maybe something new?


Grace and Peace!

 

[Hoffco]

AS I study Romans and James(all scripture teaches the same:grace, faith works) I see Paul and James said the same thing.Only, that, Paul said more and more systematically. Romans starts where God starts in saving us, Rom.1and 2 is the new birth, 1:7 "...called to be saints" and ends with 1:29 (new birth) "'but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." as Peter 1:2 said we are elect to sal. "in the sanctification of the Spirit for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus..." sanct. 1st. justi. 2nd. the order in sal. is:1st.sanctification then 2nd justification., as in Jh.3 , so paul can say, God will judge all for eternal life OR eter.death, by their works "deeds". Rom.2:6-13; because ,as John says in Jh.3:21, those who are born again by God will come to Jesus for forgiveness in His blood. Only, born again sinners will trust Jesus.!
Rom. 1&2 = sanctification, new birth; The gentile of ch2 is born of God!
Rom.3-5 = Justification
I need to brake for now. Be back later, Lord willing. Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

Glory to God for your healing! How did it come about? Did you pray or did someone else?

All healing when healed ultimately comes about by God. even the enemy can't without permission from God, look at the first book of Job, and notice, only what Satan can do, as God says okay to this not okay to that.
I know what side I want to be on and am on consciously, thanking God for God's Son Christ, thanking Christ for doing what he came to do.
Too many running around trying to do what he did , being imitators of Christ, and when they finally come to the end of the energy of their own flesh, and do believe, will see the exchanged life. Their imitating life of Christ to a participation into Christ, big difference and usually takes much work, hard work to enter that participating rest awaiting for all that believe in God

 

[know1]

Hello there! I did not forget what I said, and I still intend on providing you with those verses I said I would. As it turns out, my professor wants for me to write a short 20 page research paper on the same topic: Works of The Law and Works of Faith. So once I have completed my paper, I thought I would be able to share the information with you at that time. At the very least, I am hoping I will be able to provide you with a better quality response regarding why James' and Paul's statements about faith and works are actually complimentary and not contradictory; this will, however, take up to several weeks to write the paper. Anyway, I can't wait to share with you what I learn over the course of the next few weeks. Maybe something new?


Grace and Peace!

Looking forward to reading it, but if you don't mind, send me a private message when you post it, so I will know to look for it. The thread is on its way out due to a lack of interest. Thanks again.

 

[know1]

It was, happened in transition from Las Vegas, NV. to Utah, where I had a job to come to, on the way, I went to emergency room and spent 3 weeks under surgery after surgery to remove all the gangrene. Been disabled every since and am learning to count this a good thing, not a bad one.

I mean no offense sir, but am I missing something here? I thought you said you got healed. Did you lose your healing or were you talking about getting healed through medicine?

 

[know1]

as in Jh.3 , so paul can say, God will judge all for eternal life OR eter.death, by their works "deeds". Rom.2:6-13; because ,as John says in Jh.3:21, those who are born again by God will come to Jesus for forgiveness in His blood. Only, born again sinners will trust Jesus.!

I'm not so sure that Romans 2:6-13 is talking about eternal damnation due to someones disobedience. I can see it both ways, either eternal Judgement or in the natural world.
Personally, I don't see God removing His Spirit from someone because they failed or willfully refused to obey His laws then give it back and give the person a new or fresh heart all over again, when they submit and obey.
The bible talks about God chastening His children, even judging them in the natural world, for their sins.
Rendering to every man according to his works.

 

[know1]

All healing when healed ultimately comes about by God.

If you are talking about medicine, then you have it wrong. That is not God doing the healing.
Food has a better affect on the natural body than most medicine and yet it is not considered healing from God.

 

[Kerry]

All Healing comes from the Lord. There only two, God, and satan. There is no in between. Satan has come to rob kill and destroy and he will do this through deceit. He is a liar and cannot tell the truth. Thank God for the aspirin you take and thank God for the doctor that deals with you truthfully. I'm going from memory but I know its in there. Maybe I should search for it. But God warns and say's woe to you doctors and lawyers. Why because the lead people astray, much like preachers. Doctors and lawyers are truthfully callings of God. Many doctors now day will butcher you so they can make their yacht payment. Does that make sense. Lawyers will talk you into a lawsuit so they can get their 30 to 40% if not more.

 

[homwardbound]

I mean no offense sir, but am I missing something here? I thought you said you got healed. Did you lose your healing or were you talking about getting healed through medicine?

Not this time around, major surgery, had parts cur off for the gangrene, since last Nov. 2012 been disabled ever since so far
Apparently you did not read the whole post, about getting healed and not getting. go back and read the whole post

I said in past I have been healed miraculously, anyway it is not always meant that way.
I would rather be well in Spirit with God than not well over being healed physically

Post 545

 

[homwardbound]

If you are talking about medicine, then you have it wrong. That is not God doing the healing.
Food has a better affect on the natural body than most medicine and yet it is not considered healing from God.

Tell me know1, how is it with your Soul?