VERSES USED BY UNITARIANS THAT JESUS IS NOT A GOD

[jameen]

I believe that Jesus is originally God but I want to post these things in order to test the knowledge of the Bible of all Trinitarians from different groups to see how they will refute the reasons why some Christians are having difficulty to accept that Jesus is also God:

1) Because if Jesus is God then it will become 2 Gods and God is only one

2) Jesus said that Father is the only true God to be known to men in John 17:3

3) God is not man in Hosea 11:9

4) Jesus does not know the hour and day of Judgment Day like the Father in Matthew

5) It is silly for a God to submit to another God in 1 Cor. 15:27-28

6) God does not die but Jesus died when he was crucified

7) God is a spirit but Jesus has flesh and blood

8) God never feel tired but Jesus experienced weariness

 

[MattforJesus]

The Bible states Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, which means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and it pleased the Father that in Him all fulness should dwell, and He has the Spirit without measure, and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for God cannot be separated, and the man Christ Jesus the personal human body of God, which He laid down His life for us, and purchased the Church with His own blood.

In another place it states that Jesus dwells in the light which no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Jesus, and no person will ever see Jesus, for He is an invisible Spirit that showed a visible manifestation to the Jews, and provided salvation, and will sit on the throne in heaven as the visible relationship of God to the saints.

Jesus is the invisible God that showed a visible manifestation of Himself, and provided salvation, so the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God, so the visible image of God, Jesus, is God.

The LORD appeared before Abraham in a visible image of a human body, and Abraham called Him LORD, and appeared to Abraham as Melchizedek, king of Salem, who had no mother or father, and without natural decent, and has no beginning of days, or end of life.

And nobody questions whether the human visible manifestations were God, but say they were God, so why can't Jesus be God, for whether God prepares a body from the dust of the earth, or a body from the womb of Mary, the visible image is still God in deity.

And the Bible says but to us there is but one God, the Father, and in another place one God, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all, and in Isaiah the Son shall be called the everlasting Father, and in John, Jesus told Philip if He has seen Him he has seen the Father, and the words He speaks are not His own, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works.

The Bible only attributes the Father as being God, and Jesus is a visible image of God, and the LORD showed a visible image to Abraham, and Jesus is God and man, for the visible image of God is still God, and the only way we can see the invisible God.

Jesus is not all God's Spirit in flesh, but He is still God showing a visible image of Himself, and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for God cannot be separated, so Jesus is an omnipresent, invisible Spirit.

1) Because if Jesus is God then it will become 2 Gods and God is only one

Spirit and flesh, not 2 Gods.

2) Jesus said that Father is the only true God to be known to men in John 17:3

God and man, and there is but one God, the Father.

3) God is not man in Hosea 11:9

True that, but the man Christ Jesus' deity is God.

4) Jesus does not know the hour and day of Judgment Day like the Father in Matthew

Because the flesh, the man Christ Jesus does not know, but the Father knows.

5) It is silly for a God to submit to another God in 1 Cor. 15:27-28

Deity and humanity, and the man Christ Jesus told Mary to go to His brethren, and tell them I ascend to My Father, and your Father, and My God, and your God.

And in the same chapter of John 20, after Thomas felt the print of the nails in Jesus' hands, and thrust his hand in to His side, then he said my Lord and my God.

6) God does not die but Jesus died when he was crucified

Spirit and flesh, and it is the flesh that died.

7) God is a spirit but Jesus has flesh and blood

Jesus is God and man.

8) God never feel tired but Jesus experienced weariness.

That is because His flesh got tired.

Jesus is God and man, and could either speak as being God, which He said, before Abraham was, I am, and said He is Lord and Master, or He could speak as a man when He said to a man that called Him good Master, why call Me good, when there is only one good, and that is God, and when He said, My God, why have you forsaken Me.

The LORD appeared twice before Abraham in a human visible manifestation, and to Samson's parent in an angelic form, but that does not seem to bother people.

But it bothers some people to believe Jesus is God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...to see how they will refute the reasons why some Christians are having difficulty to accept that Jesus is also God...

You will never convince a Unitarian that he or she is wrong about the deity of Christ, no matter what you present from Scripture. They will always twist every Scripture to fit their false and heretical beliefs. So the best thing to do is to leave them alone. They CHOOSE to be wilfully blind and wilfully ignorant.

But unless a person truly believes that Jesus is God, he cannot be a "Christian". Only a pseudo-Christian.

 

[oldethennew]

isn't this our 'job/work', to be Christ's witness, thus planting the mustard seed???

why take the 'low-road' instead of the High One???
why take 'offence'???
why not just be what Christ wants you to be???
why 'worry' about anything other than doing your job???

 

[Deuteronomy]

isn't this our 'job/work', to be Christ's witness, thus planting the mustard seed???

Hi oldethennew, yes, I believe you are correct. Witnessing/evangelism/apologetics are the jobs we are given to do by God, and that for all* men and women w/o exception or judgment (save the dogs and the swine, of course .. Matthew 7:6). Actual conversions are, of course, only possible for Him to do (but we are given the privilege of being a part of the process whenever we faithfully carry out the tasks that we were given).

~Deut

..........2 Corinthians 2*
..........15 We are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
..........16 To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life.
..........

 

[OneFaith]

I believe that Jesus is originally God but I want to post these things in order to test the knowledge of the Bible of all Trinitarians from different groups to see how they will refute the reasons why some Christians are having difficulty to accept that Jesus is also God:

1) Because if Jesus is God then it will become 2 Gods and God is only one

2) Jesus said that Father is the only true God to be known to men in John 17:3

3) God is not man in Hosea 11:9

4) Jesus does not know the hour and day of Judgment Day like the Father in Matthew

5) It is silly for a God to submit to another God in 1 Cor. 15:27-28

6) God does not die but Jesus died when he was crucified

7) God is a spirit but Jesus has flesh and blood

8) God never feel tired but Jesus experienced weariness

1) God is one by unity, just as the church is one. We are all of the same mind and purpose, but that does not make us the same person.

2) Yes, and 'God' is plural... "Let US make man in OUR image... in the image of God they were made- both male and female.

3) Yes, but since He is God, Who can do all things, He can take on human form. "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us." Even we are souls inside human bodies, why marvel at this?

4) Proving they are not the same person, but one by unity.

5) Not when that God is your father. Again, why marvel at this? Even a prince bows down to his father, the king, even though he himself is royalty.

6) He has the power to lay down His life and to pick it back up again (physically). Why marvel at this? I am not my body, I'm in my body- just as if I got into a car, I am not the car, but am in the car. If I can get into a car, and get out of a car, would you marvel at that? Understand that when Christ died it just meant that He left His body, He didn't cease to exist.

7) We are a spirit too (made in God's image). Again, I am not my body, but am in my body. But someday I will come out of my body. When that happens, I will still be me, and i will never cease to exist. The rich man was still the same person he was on the earth- he thought of himself first, wanted Lazarus to serve him, and lastly thought of only those who loved him- his brothers. There was no concern for others in the world. In the same way, the soul of Who Jesus is does not change whether or not He is in a human body. He is still the One Who existed before creation.

8) Jesus was in a human body- and therefore experienced what the human body goes through. If I get in a car I experience the air conditioner, the radio, the mode of transportation, and the bad drivers on the road. But i don't experience these things when I'm not in a car. Jesus had to experience what we go through because it was the Father's Will. And going through all that He did, especially the cross, without sinning or complaining, only proves even more that He is God.

Physically speaking, your body is a combination of your biological father and your biological mother. But Jesus had no mother before the creation of the world, nor a physical body. Therefore, spiritually speaking, ALL the fullness of the Father only is in the Son- that would include His Deity (God-ness). Does this mean God cloned Himself? No, because there would be no need to say They are of one mind and purpose- which the church is to be as well. Therefore, either the church is all one person with a massive personality disorder, or 'God' is plural- God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

 

[trofimus]

Most of the OP arguments are not even targeted on Trinity, because the questions indicate the person does not understand the teaching of Trinity.

For example, Trinity does not mean that there are three separate Gods (questions # 1, 2, 5).

 

[Noose]

I believe that Jesus is originally God but I want to post these things in order to test the knowledge of the Bible of all Trinitarians from different groups to see how they will refute the reasons why some Christians are having difficulty to accept that Jesus is also God:

I'm not a trinitarian but Jesus is the one and only God Almighty- none beside Him. It is the understanding that separates us.

1) Because if Jesus is God then it will become 2 Gods and God is only one

Oneness of God has nothing to do with quantities. God is not one (single unit) or 2 or 3; if you are going to describe the quantity of God you better use infinity which also can not describe God. The oneness of God is with regards to His attributes, like He alone lives forever/ He alone is perfect.

2) Jesus said that Father is the only true God to be known to men in John 17:3

That's correct. Jesus was talking form the authority of the son. The son is the authority of God. Jesus is God who took flesh so that He can demonstrate sonship to us (believers). The position/authority of the son belongs to us but the position/authority of the Father belongs to Jesus. He was only demonstrating how we need to relate to Him.

3) God is not man in Hosea 11:9

God is not a man with respect to anger (context)

4) Jesus does not know the hour and day of Judgment Day like the Father in Matthew

Nope.
Jesus perfectly knows the hour- He is the alpha and omega/ the beginning and the end- how can He not know?
It is the son who doesn't know and they are not supposed to know:

Acts 1:7Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

5) It is silly for a God to submit to another God in 1 Cor. 15:27-28

The son submits to the Father. Truth is, only God lives forever, if you are to have any hope of living forever, you must be in God and God in you so that you become one. God has created this vacancy for us in the authority of the son. We can only take up the authority by submitting to the one who called us. This is the same thing that is being talked of right from the beginning when Adam fell.

6) God does not die but Jesus died when he was crucified

Actually, Jesus did not die, He overcame death. The attributes of God are true and truth demands accomplishment. I can not say i'm a teacher unless i teach. The idea of death in Christianity is that Death/sin is a being that has a strangle hold over humanity after dam fell. So if anyone is to claim immortality, they have to overcome death and sin and how can anyone overcome death if they don't die and resurrect?

7) God is a spirit but Jesus has flesh and blood

Yes but you can not limit God. God is also love and the greatest love is dying for others- you can't achieve this in spirit.

8) God never feel tired but Jesus experienced weariness

The flesh gets weary, it must get weary.