What are we to be comforted by in 1st Thessalonians 4:18? The rapture or resurrection

[watchmen]

1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


The comfort or ''blessed hope'' is that the dead will be raised at the coming of Christ. The fact that the living will also be caught up when this occurs is a insignificant side note. Our comfort is that if we know Christ rose we will rise as well. This passage has nothing to do with escaping the Tribulation. Matter of fact it is clear that the resurrection or the ''rapture does not occur until the post trib 2nd coming. Pretribbers better face it we will be here for the trib unless we die first.

 

[Thaddaeus]

look at the Words themselves I thes 4:13-18 cannot totally be called a resurrection for both dead and alive are taken >> so you have a rapture and resurrection or you have a rapture a taken up descibing both the dead and lving as in 1Thes 4:13-18



RESURREC''TION, n. s as z. [L. resurrectus, resurgo; re and surgo, to rise.]
A rising again; chiefly, the revival of the dead of the human race, or their return from the grave, particularly at the general judgment. By the resurrection of Christ we have assurance of the future resurrection of men. 1Peter 1.
In the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage. Matt. 22.
Rapture (Page: 1189)

Rap"ture (?), n. [L. rapere, raptum, to carry off by force. See Rapid.]
1. A seizing by violence; a hurrying along; rapidity with violence. [Obs.]

That 'gainst a rock, or flat, her keel did dash With headlong rapture. Chapman.</I>
​

2. The state or condition of being rapt, or carried away from one's self by agreeable excitement; violence of a pleasing passion; extreme joy or pleasure; ecstasy.

Music, when thus applied, raises in the mind of the hearer great conceptions; it strengthens devotion, and advances praise into rapture. Addison.</I>
​

You grow correct that once with rapture writ. Pope.


you make the call!!!!!!!!!!
​

 

[shad]

1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


The comfort or ''blessed hope'' is that the dead will be raised at the coming of Christ. The fact that the living will also be caught up when this occurs is a insignificant side note. Our comfort is that if we know Christ rose we will rise as well. This passage has nothing to do with escaping the Tribulation. Matter of fact it is clear that the resurrection or the ''rapture does not occur until the post trib 2nd coming. Pretribbers better face it we will be here for the trib unless we die first.

You mis-characterize this portion of the scriptures when you consider those that are alive as an 'insignificant side note'. There is nothing insignificant about this passage of scripture. It is referring to those which are 'asleep' and those that are 'alive'. These two categories of believers refer to the redemption of the 'body'. The comfort that was to be brought to one another is for those that are alive who will be caught up together with the dead in Christ. The dead in Christ are those that went before them as a believer who could have been a spouse, a family member, a friend or anyone that had previously died who had brought them sorrow and whose body was in the grave, yet they being absent from the body were present with the Lord.

I'll leave the tribulation part alone but you do have some misconceptions and preconceived ideas concerning the scriptures on the church, its dispensation, the old and new testament saints and the time of their resurrections, the restrainer, the woman in Rev 12, the wrath of God vs the wrath of Satan, the second resurrection, the judgment seat of Christ and the role of the church and the Jewish nation during the specific period of time of the great tribulation, just to mention a few. I have read everything you and others have said and will leave you to your own understanding and have no desire to discuss these things with you.

 

[watchmen]

You mis-characterize this portion of the scriptures when you consider those that are alive as an 'insignificant side note'.

The whole point Paul is making is that the dead will rise the fact that those that survive the Tribulation will be caught up as well is a side note. Millions upon millions have already died between the ascension of Christ and now, and most will die during the tribulation. The % of believers that will be caught up alive compared to those that will be resurrected is less than 1%. Yes the pretrib rapture is not our hope not even the post trib rapture is. Our hope is in the resurrection of the just through faith in Christ's resurrection.

1st Corinthians 15
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[markhelp]

God is talking about "the gathering together " which will occur before the book of Revelation starts.

Thank you very much, hold your applause, you're so kind.

 

[watchmen]

God is talking about "the gathering together " which will occur before the book of Revelation starts.

Thank you very much, hold your applause, you're so kind.

And where do you find this fallacy in scripture?

 

[timjim]

2 billion people will be killed by the arm of horsemen rev.9 we know it will not be the Jews mybe it will be use

 

[watchmen]

2 billion people will be killed by the arm of horsemen rev.9 we know it will not be the Jews mybe it will be use

Yes I agree Christians will be her for the Tribulation, and most of us will be martyred. The point of this thread However is in verse 18 of 1st Thessalonians 4 Paul said to comfort each other with these words. The words we are to comfort each other with is that the dead in Christ will be raised at the 2nd coming. The teaching that the blessed hope is the pretrib rapture is flat out wrong.

 

[concernedguy]

1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


The comfort or ''blessed hope'' is that the dead will be raised at the coming of Christ. The fact that the living will also be caught up when this occurs is a insignificant side note. Our comfort is that if we know Christ rose we will rise as well. This passage has nothing to do with escaping the Tribulation. Matter of fact it is clear that the resurrection or the ''rapture does not occur until the post trib 2nd coming. Pretribbers better face it we will be here for the trib unless we die first.

I don't believe anything about the tribulation. But God did say it was not His Children to be punished and
the tribulation is punishment. The original Greek word used means totally exempt meaning Christians will
not be here. But using the Bible as a guide, it seems Jesus will rapture the church then the tribulation
which the anti-christ fools the Jews and Christ returns to save the Jews and crush the devil.

But this is all this or that. Regardless, Christians should focus on becoming more Christ-like, building their
relationship with God and seeking to access His Power to deal with anything that they face. God decided
the outcome of all things thousands of years ago. No matter what happens, we have no say in it. The
best thing to do is believe in your faith in Christ saving power and not worry about what happens.

 

[concernedguy]

1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


The comfort or ''blessed hope'' is that the dead will be raised at the coming of Christ. The fact that the living will also be caught up when this occurs is a insignificant side note. Our comfort is that if we know Christ rose we will rise as well. This passage has nothing to do with escaping the Tribulation. Matter of fact it is clear that the resurrection or the ''rapture does not occur until the post trib 2nd coming. Pretribbers better face it we will be here for the trib unless we die first.

These verses do not pertain to the coming of Christ. The verses are Paul's response to those worried
about their friends and family that have already died prior to Christ's return. Paul is simply stating
that they are not lost and will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven just a those that are living if Jesus
should return. Also keep in mind those in these scriptures believed Jesus would return in their lifetime.

 

[watchmen]

These verses do not pertain to the coming of Christ. The verses are Paul's response to those worried
about their friends and family that have already died prior to Christ's return. Paul is simply stating
that they are not lost and will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven just a those that are living if Jesus
should return. Also keep in mind those in these scriptures believed Jesus would return in their lifetime.

It is irrelevent when they thought Jesus would come back. Further more it clearly states that the dead would rise at the coming of Christ, so this is in reference to the 2nd coming. Thirdly verse 13 starts the passage says I would not have you be ignorant concerning those that have died that you sorrow not, verse 14 continue if we believe Jesus died and rose again, so will God bring those that have died in Christ with Him when He COMES, and in verse 16 we see that the dead do rise, and verse 15 tells us this is at the coming of Christ, verse 18 tells us to comfort one another with these words. The whole point of this passage is do not sorrow for the dead in Christ for they will rise again, it has nothing to do with some pretrib escape plan of God.

 

[Thaddaeus]

The whole point Paul is making is that the dead will rise the fact that those that survive the Tribulation will be caught up as well is a side note. Millions upon millions have already died between the ascension of Christ and now, and most will die during the tribulation. The % of believers that will be caught up alive compared to those that will be resurrected is less than 1%. Yes the pretrib rapture is not our hope not even the post trib rapture is. Our hope is in the resurrection of the just through faith in Christ's resurrection.

1st Corinthians 15
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

can you show us your source of information that has lead you to know "that will be caught up alive compared to those that will be resurrected is less than 1%."

 

[concernedguy]

It is irrelevent when they thought Jesus would come back. Further more it clearly states that the dead would rise at the coming of Christ, so this is in reference to the 2nd coming. Thirdly verse 13 starts the passage says I would not have you be ignorant concerning those that have died that you sorrow not, verse 14 continue if we believe Jesus died and rose again, so will God bring those that have died in Christ with Him when He COMES, and in verse 16 we see that the dead do rise, and verse 15 tells us this is at the coming of Christ, verse 18 tells us to comfort one another with these words. The whole point of this passage is do not sorrow for the dead in Christ for they will rise again, it has nothing to do with some pretrib escape plan of God.

It is important that they thought Jesus would return in their lifetime because of their sense of values.
Today we do not have those values. Also they did not have their thoughts and values destroyed as
we do today by tv and everything else.
Their focus was God and God alone. Not God as long as God agreed with the movie stars and the
latest movie.

It is sad that we place so little importance unlike them on Jesus returning in our life time. To most
today, if Jesus returns He does and if not that's ok too. Those that lived in that time had an urgent
desire to seek and follow Christ instead of our "we have grace so don't worry" attitude.

If you believed Jesus would return in your life time, how would it change you? This is why they ate,
slept and breathed Jesus. Its like a doctor telling you that you have 6 months to live. How would that
put an urgency in your life? This is how those of that time lived in regard to Christ return.

Today most are not urgent about knowing Christ. They only want His Promises so they don't go to
hell but do nothing He commanded. Most Christians can't even tell someone how to be saved. They
can say a few things they know but are not able to take the Bible and show someone the verses
they need to see to be saved.

Since most Christians hold God in such low esteem that they love Him so much yet know almost
nothing about His Word other than what they heard at church or were told, it is no wonder most
Christians spend their time defending other issues like the tribulation instead of praising and
following Christ and teaching others about Christ.
It is because of these worthless concerns many will go to hell because those that claim to be
Christians were too busy arguing or defending unimportant issues that they deemed important
instead of learning God's Word and teaching others how to be saved.

Many know about God's Word but do not know God's Word. This is why the Bible says,"The fields
are white for harvest but the laborers are few".

If Christians spent as much time teaching others about Christ as they do online and in other places
arguing and defending certain unimportant points of view, the churches would not be able to contain
the multitudes that would seek to go to church.

We are to carry God's Word to the ends of the earth. Not get caught up in defending this or that
which has nothing to do with saving souls. How the world ends and if Christians will be here
during the tribulation is not what Christians are commanded to be doing. Christians should be
doing God's work and His Power will empower Christians to overcome anything He faces them with.
Unfortunately, many will never know how to access His Power and overcome in His Power. To
most their life is important. It is to me too. But I pray to become less so God can become more.

My life is not important. What is important is that I live my life faithful to Christ. I am required to
be faithful to Christ. I am not required to live. If a Christian has faith in Christ and follows Christ
even till death, then they receive eternal life as a gift.

Many Christians I meet like the God concept but giving their life to defend God is not what they
signed up for. Jesus said the world hated me. They will hate you too. Jesus even said They will
kill you in My Name. There are those following another Jesus that would kill any Christian they
encounter if possible.

In the US we can worship in peace but put little value on God. In other countries, they value Christ
above all else but the cost is their life.

Many ask God to bless America. I never ask this of God. God blessed America and man used those
blessing to follow after the lust of his flesh and murder millions of God's babies. God doesn't need
to bless America. God needs to judge America.

 

[watchmen]

1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Verse 13 starts the passage says I would not have you be ignorant concerning those that have died that you sorrow not, verse 14 continue if we believe Jesus died and rose again, so will God bring those that have died in Christ with Him when He COMES, and in verse 16 we see that the dead do rise, and verse 15 tells us this is at the coming of Christ, verse 18 tells us to comfort one another with these words. The whole point of this passage is do not sorrow for the dead in Christ for they will rise again, it has nothing to do with some pretrib escape plan of God.