What ought we to think of ...?

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

What ought we to think of the Holy Eikons, and the adoration of the Saints?

"The Saints being, and acknowledged by the Catholic Church to be, intercessors, as hath been said in Eighth Chapter, it is time to say that we honour them as friends of God, and as praying for us to the God of all. And the honour we pay them is twofold: -- according to one manner which we call hyperdulia, we honour the Mother of God the Word. For though indeed the Theotokos be servant of the only God, yet is she also His Mother, as having borne in the flesh one of the Trinity; wherefore also is she hymned, as being beyond compare, above as well all Angels and Saints; wherefore, also, we pay her the adoration of hyperdulai. But according to the other manner, which we call dulia, we adore, or rather honour, the holy Angels, Apostles, Prophets, Martyrs, and in fine, all the Saints." The Confession of Dositheus, 1672 AD, Question IV.

All Worship as God goes to God Himself Alone, and He alone is adored as God.

In Erie Scott Harrington

 

[resurrection33]

What ought we to think of the Holy Eikons, and the adoration of the Saints?

"The Saints being, and acknowledged by the Catholic Church to be, intercessors, as hath been said in Eighth Chapter, it is time to say that we honour them as friends of God, and as praying for us to the God of all. And the honour we pay them is twofold: -- according to one manner which we call hyperdulia, we honour the Mother of God the Word. For though indeed the Theotokos be servant of the only God, yet is she also His Mother, as having borne in the flesh one of the Trinity; wherefore also is she hymned, as being beyond compare, above as well all Angels and Saints; wherefore, also, we pay her the adoration of hyperdulai. But according to the other manner, which we call dulia, we adore, or rather honour, the holy Angels, Apostles, Prophets, Martyrs, and in fine, all the Saints." The Confession of Dositheus, 1672 AD, Question IV.

All Worship as God goes to God Himself Alone, and He alone is adored as God.

In Erie Scott Harrington

Is Dositheus’s opinion important to you?

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

Is Dositheus’s opinion important to you?

Yes. But it's not mere opinion. He preaches the Truth (cf. John 16:13). Scott Harrington Erie PA

 

[resurrection33]

Yes. But it's not mere opinion. He preaches the Truth (cf. John 16:13). Scott Harrington Erie PA

I’ve never heard of him.

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

I’ve never heard of him.

Have you heard of any of the Church Fathers? Dositheus is one of them. No different from any of them.

see pages 485-516, CREEDS OF THE CHURCHES: A Reader in Christian Doctrine from the Bible to the

Present. Third Edition. Edited by John H. Leith, Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press, 1982.

 

[resurrection33]

Have you heard of any of the Church Fathers? Dositheus is one of them. No different from any of them.

see pages 485-516, CREEDS OF THE CHURCHES: A Reader in Christian Doctrine from the Bible to the

Present. Third Edition. Edited by John H. Leith, Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press, 1982.

Yes, I have heard of church "fathers." My Father is God in heaven.

 

[gotime]

What ought we to think of the Holy Eikons, and the adoration of the Saints?

"The Saints being, and acknowledged by the Catholic Church to be, intercessors, as hath been said in Eighth Chapter, it is time to say that we honour them as friends of God, and as praying for us to the God of all. And the honour we pay them is twofold: -- according to one manner which we call hyperdulia, we honour the Mother of God the Word. For though indeed the Theotokos be servant of the only God, yet is she also His Mother, as having borne in the flesh one of the Trinity; wherefore also is she hymned, as being beyond compare, above as well all Angels and Saints; wherefore, also, we pay her the adoration of hyperdulai. But according to the other manner, which we call dulia, we adore, or rather honour, the holy Angels, Apostles, Prophets, Martyrs, and in fine, all the Saints." The Confession of Dositheus, 1672 AD, Question IV.

All Worship as God goes to God Himself Alone, and He alone is adored as God.

In Erie Scott Harrington

This is blasphemy!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

dositheus was basically the leo x of the eastern orthodox church...he is one of history's worst heretics

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

This is blasphemy!

So, is it blasphemy to say (to believe) all worship goes to God alone?

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

dositheus was basically the leo x of the eastern orthodox church...he is one of history's worst heretics

Mistaken sentiment. Eastern Orthodoxy has no popes. Protestantism, however, has at least 33,000 separate mini-popes, and as many protestant popes as there are Protestants, each of them believing they themselves have the true, infallible interpretation of the Bible. And they don't believe the Nicene Creed without the Filioque. They just misunderstand it if they do recite it.
Protestants are heretics, following, many of them do, the false predestinarian fatalism they get from Calvin's spin upon St. Augustine.

 

[systemdown101]

Protestantism, however, has at least 33,000 separate mini-popes,

Where can I find a list of these 33,000+ mini-popes?

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

Where can I find a list of these 33,000+ mini-popes?

Why?
Surely you're joking!
The Protestant principle, is, however, every believer as an individual has "the right to interpret the Bible

for himself". Hence, no doctrinal or church unity among the Protestant ever-changing denominations.

 

[systemdown101]

Why?
Surely you're joking!
The Protestant principle, is, however, every believer as an individual has "the right to interpret the Bible for himself". Hence, no doctrinal or church unity among the Protestant ever-changing denominations.

To a degree. I was mostly wondering where you pulled the number 33,000 from.

I also think you could make the opposite case for the EOC, that their position is "The Bible means what WE say it means." And, given that the people at the top are men, and thus have agendas, and are thus fallible, I'm not so certain of their infallibility here.

The example I've discussed with you before was that according to the EOC, anyone who uses a Jewish doctor or pharmacist is to be cut off from the Church. This is actual EOC doctrine, and I don't see what is Biblical about it. I could dig deeper and come up with other examples of dogma that were not Biblically based, but rather came out of the imaginations of men running the various churches.

I won't deny there's a bunch of screwball Protestant Churches out there, but I remain unconvinced that the EOC is any better. My opinion: The Church is simply the entire collection of True Believers who hear and follow Yeshua's Word, and they exist in many, many denominations, as God has purposed them. The True Church is not one institution as we would reckon it, but rather as God would.

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

To a degree. I was mostly wondering where you pulled the number 33,000 from.

I also think you could make the opposite case for the EOC, that their position is "The Bible means what WE say it means." And, given that the people at the top are men, and thus have agendas, and are thus fallible, I'm not so certain of their infallibility here.

The example I've discussed with you before was that according to the EOC, anyone who uses a Jewish doctor or pharmacist is to be cut off from the Church. This is actual EOC doctrine, and I don't see what is Biblical about it. I could dig deeper and come up with other examples of dogma that were not Biblically based, but rather came out of the imaginations of men running the various churches.

I won't deny there's a bunch of screwball Protestant Churches out there, but I remain unconvinced that the EOC is any better. My opinion: The Church is simply the entire collection of True Believers who hear and follow Yeshua's Word, and they exist in many, many denominations, as God has purposed them. The True Church is not one institution as we would reckon it, but rather as God would.

Dear systemdown:
How is infallibility of Christian doctrine is transmitted in the Church.

1. The 12 Apostles and St. Paul, etc. knew our Lord Jesus Christ.
2. The followers of the 12 Apostles and St. Paul, bishops, knew our Lord Jesus Christ through the teaching of the Apostles. The original 12 Apostles and St. Paul did not err in their teachings, because they got them directly from the Holy Spirit which Christ gave them.
3. The followers of the followers of St. Paul and the 12 Apostles, bishops, knew the Lord Jesus Christ through the teachings of the first followers of the 12 Apostles and St. Paul.
4. There is an unbroken succession, apostolic succession, of bishops in the EOC to assure the truthfulness, the basic infallibility, of the teachings of the leaders of the Church. Being human, of course, any member of the Church can sometimes err. But there is a way to overcome individual errors: it's called an OEcumenical Council (Synod). And there were 9 of them in EOC Church history.
God bless you always in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS The EOC is not an institution, and She is the True Church.

 

[See_KING_Truth]

we honour the Mother of God the Word. For though indeed the Theotokos be servant of the only God, yet is she also His Mother, as having borne in the flesh one of the Trinity

Matthew 12:47-49

King James Version (KJV)

47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

Matthew 12:47-49

King James Version (KJV)

47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

[/quote


"And Mariam [Mary] rose up in those days and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; ans she entered into the house of Zacharias, and greeted Elisabeth. And it came to pass, as Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And shed cried out with a loud voice, and said, "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me> For behold, as the sound of thy salutation came into mine ears, the babe in my womb leaped in exultant joy. And happy is she who believed, for there shall be a fulfillment of those things which were spoken to her from the Lord." And Mariam [Mary} saith: "My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior, for He looked upon the law estate of His slave. For behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For the mighty One did great things to me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is to those who fear Him to generations of generations. He wrought strength with His arm; He scattered the proud in the thought of their heart. He put down the mighty from their thrones, and exalted them of low estate. He filled those who are hungry with good things, and those who are rich He sent empty away. He helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy, as He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed forever." And Mariam [Mary] stayed with her about three months, and returned to her own house." St. Luke 1:39-56 ONT Orthodox New Testament, Volume 1, pages 213-214.