Why did demons all of a sudden pop up in the NT?

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Piano_hero

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Apr 19, 2009
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#1
Most people on here ask sarcastic questions already knowing what their stance is , but i really dont know and i doubt any of you do, so im making a call for thinking and discernment. Demons as we know them never appeared in the OT (this fact is indisputable, the word for "demons" that is translated as such in the OT were false idols and not living being fallen angels that took control of people" ) . After doing my own research, there is no reason to believe that demons in the NT are fallen angels because the Bible mentions twice that the fallen angels are locked away until judgement .

"He has also held in eternal chains those angels who did not keep their own position but abandoned their assigned place. They are held in deepest darkness for judgment on the great day." jud 1:6

"For if God spared not the angels who had sinned, but having cast them down to the deepest pit of gloom has delivered them to chains of darkness to be kept for judgment;" 2Pet 2:4

Also, take note that "lucifer" in Isaiah is about a babylonian king that was defeated and that teh "satan" in teh story of Job is not the "beast/serpent" of the NT. The satan in the Job story is someone that can enter heaven as he pleases and is not against God himself , while the "beast" in the NT is someone that hates God , has a mouth full of blasphemies adn was banned from heaven (ie, cannot enter heaven like the satan in the Job story)

"He said to them, "I watched Satan falling from heaven like lightning." Luke 10:18

"And he (beast) opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven." Rev 13:6

"The LORD told Satan, "Everything he has is in your power, but you must not lay a hand on him!" Then Satan left the LORD's presence." Job 1:12


So what are the theories as to why demon possesions are not mentioned once in teh whole OT and what and who are demons exactly ? since they cant be fallen angels , adn they dont do anything in the OT etc ?
 
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markhelp

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#3
Dec 24, 2008
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God tells us ALOT about the Adversary and the spirit realm in the old testament. Much more than people realize.
You see it more exposed in the New Testament because Jesus Christ exposed the Adversary and his snare.
Since being exposed, the Adversary has once again tried to re-conceal himself, because his success is the secrecy of his moves.

There is a saying:

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed.
The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.
 
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LynnJ

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#4
#4
This is a very interesting topic and one that I had not thought much about. Thanks for encouraging me to look into this subject.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#5
Apr 23, 2009
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So piano, who do you think the demons of the N.T. which Jesus cast out of people are?
 
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Piano_hero

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Apr 19, 2009
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i said . i dont know . they have no introduction . they just all of a sudden appear like were supposed to know what they are. The apologetics explain that the romans and greeks had demons in their belief system so there was no introduction needed, but this explanation is troubling since it would make it sound as though "Demons" was an idea adopted from pagan religions
 
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Slepsog4

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#7
#7
There are two theories. One is more well know than the other. The first is that demons are fallen angels. They are also called unclean spirits.

The second is that they are the departed spirits of wicked dead people. This is why they crave to possess humans to gain the benefit of all the bodily stimulus and pleasures that cannot be felt in a strictly spirit being.

The latter view is one that was held in the earliest centuries by three different groups: pagans, Jews, Christians.

Their appearance was likely a way to show the power of Christ over the kingdom of Satan.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#8
Jan 8, 2009
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#8
The second is that they are the departed spirits of wicked dead people. This is why they crave to possess humans to gain the benefit of all the bodily stimulus and pleasures that cannot be felt in a strictly spirit being.
Click to expand...
Then there's the variation of this, the pre-Adamic race theory, that the demons are the souls of a pre-Adamic race God created before reforming the earth and creating humans. (the book, Earths Earliest Ages, G.H. Pember)

Another variation, that demons are the departed spirits or souls of those killed in Noah's flood, of the Nephilim, the giants etc.

Anyway, I think scripture shows theres a difference between fallen angels and demons (Acts 23:8-9). Both are spirits, but they are different. Fallen angels inhabit the sky (according to Ephesians). So does satan, the prince of the power of the air. Demons cannot fly into the air, rather they roam the earth and their real abode is in the ocean. Which is why the demons led the pigs they inhabited to fall into the water (Matt 8:2:cool:.

Jesus said the demons if they can't find any water, they go back to the house they came, like a human body preferably, if not, an animals body. The temporary dwelling of demons is bodies. Their real dwelling is in water but they do their dirty work on the earth.

Mat 12:43Whentheuncleanspiritisgoneout ofaman,hewalkeththroughdryplaces,seekingrest,andfindethnone.
Mat 12:44Thenhesaith,Iwillreturnintomyhousefrom whenceIcame out;andwhenheiscome,hefindethitempty,swept,andgarnished.
 
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markhelp

Banned
#9
Dec 24, 2008
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#9
The Devil and one-third of the angels which conspired to overthrow God make up the devil-spirit realm about which most people know very little and believe even less.
The thing to remember again is that Jesus Christ exposed the Adversary and his snare, so much more is obvious in the gospels.
The Adversary again tries to conceal himself. When he gets people to say, "I don't believe in devil spirits", he has pretty much succeeded. Then God gets blamed for everything bad.
God does not want us ignorant of Satans devices. The Bible is chock full of stuff that God reveals about the Adversary and his hosts of devil spirits under his command. (Old and New Testaments alike).
If it pleases the audience here, I will share some things --

ps

the term "demon" itself is a trick of the Adversary. It is a "soft" term.
They are devil spirits, and should be called as such.
 
W

wisdomseeker

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#10
Mar 11, 2009
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#10
Piano_hero said:
Most people on here ask sarcastic questions already knowing what their stance is , but i really dont know and i doubt any of you do, so im making a call for thinking and discernment. Demons as we know them never appeared in the OT (this fact is indisputable, the word for "demons" that is translated as such in the OT were false idols and not living being fallen angels that took control of people" ) . After doing my own research, there is no reason to believe that demons in the NT are fallen angels because the Bible mentions twice that the fallen angels are locked away until judgement .

"He has also held in eternal chains those angels who did not keep their own position but abandoned their assigned place. They are held in deepest darkness for judgment on the great day." jud 1:6

"For if God spared not the angels who had sinned, but having cast them down to the deepest pit of gloom has delivered them to chains of darkness to be kept for judgment;" 2Pet 2:4

Also, take note that "lucifer" in Isaiah is about a babylonian king that was defeated and that teh "satan" in teh story of Job is not the "beast/serpent" of the NT. The satan in the Job story is someone that can enter heaven as he pleases and is not against God himself , while the "beast" in the NT is someone that hates God , has a mouth full of blasphemies adn was banned from heaven (ie, cannot enter heaven like the satan in the Job story)

"He said to them, "I watched Satan falling from heaven like lightning." Luke 10:18

"And he (beast) opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven." Rev 13:6

"The LORD told Satan, "Everything he has is in your power, but you must not lay a hand on him!" Then Satan left the LORD's presence." Job 1:12


So what are the theories as to why demon possesions are not mentioned once in teh whole OT and what and who are demons exactly ? since they cant be fallen angels , adn they dont do anything in the OT etc ?
Click to expand...
Peace be to you
1st samual
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.


There are many more piano hero judges and samual are full of them and the explanation is in revalation.Isiah also explains why but God givith understanding not me.So ask him

john 3
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Ask and you shall recieve,knock and it will be opened for you.
Love a friend in God
 
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markhelp

Banned
#11
Dec 24, 2008
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#11
Only the devil spirits that caused the flood of Noah's time are the ones who are in chains of darkness. [Context]
These are the imprisoned spirits that Jesus Christ witnessed to in his resurrected body, and showed himself alive, that those devil spirits would know they did not succeed. The adversary's plan was to destroy all mankind so the Christ, the Messiah, could not be born to redeem mankind.
But there was a believer, Noah. So the Christ-line continued.
 
T

thefightinglamb

Guest
#12
#12
Personally, I 'think' they had to...

Okay so God is walking in person...and what was God was the physical body of Christ God? I would say no, there were many people in the crowd that touched and saw the physical body of Christ and never saw God...(but to some extant the physical body of Christ was Christ because it was 'his body' but it wasn't directly him, anyway hard to explain...)...But Jesus is God and as being such whereever he went he did not just encounter physical situations, but He being God s'spiritually influenced' what was happening in a way that is impossible to describe because it is truly infinite...But anyway, Jesus being God pierces through physical appeareances unlike any prophet or judge or priest ever could, because he was God in the flesh--so naturally from the getgo you have 'sin being separated from the flesh' as sin could not dwell in his body...It is the same with anybody else that the physical situation reveals a demon, Jesus is interacting on a level no man could ever have acted on before...because sin left us in bondage, all of us...worthless...So you have Jesus dividing the flesh from sin and demons whereever he goes...

So, secondly, what is a demon? It is clear that a demon is present where there is a demonic stronghold...But a demon has got to be something that spiritually is enpowered by the devil to capture something and hold it in bondage...even as Jesus says about Belzebub, "Can a man plunder the house of a strong man without first binding the strongman, but once the man is bound he may plunder the house..." SO, wehre do they come from, I think we answered by saying 'of the devil', how and who are they? I am not exactly sure howto answer, but it seems obvious that they are fed by sin and they feed on people spiritually and physically...

Hope this helps some
God bless
May the love of Christ fortify us against the 'devil's schemes'
May the Lord of peace fill you with peace
tony
 
P

Piano_hero

Banned
#13
Apr 19, 2009
173
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#13
markhelp said:
Only the devil spirits that caused the flood of Noah's time are the ones who are in chains of darkness. [Context]
These are the imprisoned spirits that Jesus Christ witnessed to in his resurrected body, and showed himself alive, that those devil spirits would know they did not succeed. The adversary's plan was to destroy all mankind so the Christ, the Messiah, could not be born to redeem mankind.
But there was a believer, Noah. So the Christ-line continued.
Click to expand...
verses ???
 
I

Irish76

Guest
#14
#14
markhelp said:
Only the devil spirits that caused the flood of Noah's time are the ones who are in chains of darkness. [Context]
These are the imprisoned spirits that Jesus Christ witnessed to in his resurrected body, and showed himself alive, that those devil spirits would know they did not succeed. The adversary's plan was to destroy all mankind so the Christ, the Messiah, could not be born to redeem mankind.
But there was a believer, Noah. So the Christ-line continued.
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure how you came up with this theory. The story of Noah in Genesis clearly tells us that it was God who decided to destroy the earth with a flood and that it was God who did it:
Genesis 6:5-8 (KJV)
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 6:17 (KJV)
17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
 
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MaggieMye

Guest
#15
#15
Demons as we know them never appeared in the OT (this fact is indisputable, the word for "demons" that is translated as such in the OT were false idols and not living being fallen angels that took control of people" ) There are demons/unclean or tormenting spirits, angels, powers and principalities.. After doing my own research, there is no reason to believe that demons in the NT are fallen angels because the Bible mentions twice that the fallen angels are locked away until judgement . Correct. The fallen angels are in chains and not taking control of people. Angels are angels, even after they fall.
"He has also held in eternal chains those angels who did not keep their own position but abandoned their assigned place. They are held in deepest darkness for judgment on the great day." jud 1:6
"For if God spared not the angels who had sinned, but having cast them down to the deepest pit of gloom has delivered them to chains of darkness to be kept for judgment;" 2Pet 2:4

Also, take note that "lucifer" in Isaiah is about a babylonian king that was defeated and that teh "satan" in teh story of Job is not the "beast/serpent" of the NT. It is a spiritual metaphor using the natural to reveal the spiritual The satan in the Job story is someone that can enter heaven as he pleases and is not against God himself, while the "beast" in the NT is someone that hates God , has a mouth full of blasphemies adn was banned from heaven (ie, cannot enter heaven like the satan in the Job story) There is nothing in scripture to support that Lucifer/satan was banned from heaven; only that his domain was no longer the 3rd heaven, but the earth. And while his domain is the earth and he has dominion UNTIL the Bride is perfected and takes back her rightful inheritance, he is able to go there and converse with God. See Job 1:6-7 6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
So what are the theories as to why demon possessions are not mentioned once in the whole OT and what and who are demons exactly? since they cant be fallen angels , adn they dont do anything in the OT etc ? Demons are demons...a spiritual creature created by God for his purposes of tempting man so that man would have free will to choose. They are present in the OT and called 'unclean' or 'tormenting' or 'evil' spirits. See 1 Sam 16:23.
The OT is metaphorical. All the evil powers, kings, wicked cities, are the earthly manifestations of the powers of the demonic realm. Consider the Prince of Persia. This is the name of a demonic principality that had dominion over the earthly territory of Persia.
Demonic POsession is to say that the demon OWNS the person. Christians are OWNED by Holy Spirit, but can be OPPressed by...affected by, accosted by, attacked by demons....especially if they do not know their authority in Christ.
People CAN be POssessed but this does not happen without the person GIVING UP their will to the demon/s. This is more common in Native Americans (though rare today) the Far East, the Outback, and tribal communities in various countries.
Maggie​
 
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Brackenzee

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#16
Oct 17, 2009
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A lot of it has to do with the Hellenization of Palestine between the time of the Old Testament and the New Testament. There were concepts of demons or monsters in the Old Testament era, but the idea of an organized rebellion against God did not come into Judaism until much later, due to mixing with other religions and myths.
 
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