Why Some Saints Will Not Leave At The Rapture

[EarsToHear]

The gathering of the church (rapture) is a promise from the Lord in John 14:1-3 with 1 Thes.4:16-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-52 being the detailed event of when the Lord comes for the church. Wrath is coming upon this earth in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments with the resurrection of those in Christ taking place first and immediately followed by the those who are still alive being changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. Since believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer wrath and Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath, then believers cannot go through the time of God's wrath, but must be removed prior to its beginning.

If you don't believe this, then you are not believing in the Lord's promise, nor are you believing that Jesus took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve, satisfying it completely and therefore God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer.

All of those people that you mentioned above, have been mentioned over and over again and you are just repeating this same apologetic. In order to be swayed by their teaching one would have to a follower of their teachings and adopt them. That said, I have never read anything by them, but my understanding of the gathering of the church comes straight from my own studies of the scriptures, not from the teachings of men.

Instead of believing in the Lord's promise to keep believers out of that time of wrath, instead you believe and teach that believers will go through the wrath of God, which Jesus already satisfied.

John 14:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Jesus Christ is the Living Word. This earth age of flesh man, just like the earth age that was before this, shall pass away, but God Word shall never change. Jesus is the same today as He was in that first earth age, and tomorrow and into the eternity He will remain the same.


Though most all of man's theories continually change, that plan that God sets forth in His Word never changes. Men like to present God's Word in confusing ways, changing just as words of their languages take on new meanings. However this is the reason we must learn to use the tools for studying of the Scriptures for the Word of God is absolute, it never changes. The new forms of teaching systems try to take away a person's value system, and in the process, it leaves it's students in mental confusion, with nothing absolute; however in Christ, and His Word we have something that has never changed, nor will it ever. That is why we must place all of our faith in that Word.


A prime example of this are the events that are taking place on the entire earth today. Things that were prophesied many thousand years ago are taking place right on schedule. The tiny Nation of Israel has been reestablished, the world is moving to world peace, and the first beast (One World Political system) has formed and now controls the nations on the entire earth. The authority for governing the world is under its ten horns of power of the agencies of the United Nations.


My friend, God does have control of All events, as well as mankind. He sets kings up and takes them down, and the world continues exactly according to God's prophetic clock. Today the young people are told that it is the worse time than it ever has been, when in fact, it is the exact opposite. Though the future looks like it is a loss, according to the press, the actual position that we are in is quite the opposite. In a worldly sense, the future is very bright, however, in a spiritual sense, we are approaching the time of the Antichrist (instead of Christ in the Greek). That time when Satan comes to this earth with policies of peace and prosperity, as spoken of in Daniel 8:23-25.


In the phrase, "In the beginning was..." is a very deep thought, and just incomprehensible to most people. So the question should be; When was the beginning? Most Christians are taught in their church houses that that was some six thousand years ago. Friend, that shows a lack of knowledge of the Scriptures; for II Peter 3, gives us information into that first earth age, the age that Satan was overthrown, and brought one-third of the sons of God, the angels down with him. Many of the remains of creatures that are non-existing today roamed the earth in the earth age that was (that first earth age). This earth is truly millions of years old, however Adamic man (from Adam) is but about six thousand years old.


So, when was the beginning? Countless millions of years ago; and if that is hard to comprehend when you are starting to get a grasp on this verse, for it was even then that this Word existed, and the Word has not changed one bit since then. We are not talking about creation here, only the existence of the Word, Jesus Christ, and the Father God and the office of the personage of the Spirit of the Living God. God and all three offices in the Godhead pre-existed before any point of time that the human mind can imagine.


Friend, the Word even existed prior to the existence of the creation of this earth, the sun, the planets, and the stars in the heavens. Don't ask me to explain it, for there is no person in human form living today that has the answer, it is one of those things you must accept as fact and by our faith in God's Holy Scriptures. By our faith, we accept Jesus Christ Who is the Word, and it is necessary and part of becoming a Christian. It is time for us to take the blinders off, and acknowledge the things of creation that are around us, and give us the physical evidence that the first earth age did exist, that this earth age is millions of years old. Then get into the Bible and learn all we can about what happened in that period of time.


Ephesians 1:4 addresses the time before this flesh earth age, that started when "the earth became without form, and void [ruin]", as spoken of in Genesis 1:2 of the Massoretic text. In that first earth age, all souls did exist in their spiritual bodies as the angels have. Paul talked about this other body in I Corinthians 15, and this is why there are no human flesh carcasses predating ten to twelve thousand years ago. When they dig up a link that appears to be man in an early form of development and run the tests on it, They find that it was a monkey, ape or whatever. In that first earth age, however, all souls did exist in their spiritual, or angelic bodies, but there was one soul that was created more beautiful, and wiser then all other created souls, and his name Satan.


There was a spiritual warfare when Satan rebelled and tried to take control, and many stood up and fought against Satan. Ephesians 1:4 addresses that first earth age when the battle took place, and those specific souls that stood against Satan, and they were judged then, and addressed in a certain manner in this earth age. This is not saying that man has existed in the flesh a second time, for that is talking about spirits of divination, or familiar spirits, and that is an entirely different matter.


Ephesians 1:4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:


Those that were chosen in that earth age, are called the "elect" of this flesh age.


Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,


"Jesus Christ" is "the Word" of John 1:1, and we are adopted through the blood of Jesus Christ to the Father. The Elect were predestined because of what each of them did in taking the stand against Satan's uprising, and not because of any specific action in this earth age. However, all souls must come to the Father in this earth age through repentance, and under the shed blood of Jesus Christ.


Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved:


This Word always has been, and it does not need you to apologize for it. In most cases, the one that is disputing the fact simply does not the mental ability to understand it in the first place. The Spirit of God has blinded that persons spiritual eyes. The only thing man can apologize for is his own ignorance. When one seeks an apology for what is the Word, and in the Word, it shows their lack of teaching and understanding. A set of rules simply can not instruct you of the events of the first earth age, for in many cases, church doctrines assume the beginning of the earth, the angelic beings, and all living to be only 6,000 years old.


To them, science is rejected, and stones and bones have no meanings to them, but what is important to them is their church systems. We don't have to close our eyes to the past and to the things around us, but we learn from those things. Our understanding of that first earth age; the fall of Satan when the third of the angels followed him; and all the rest will be exactly as it was then, at the end of this second earth age. All of mankind will again be deceived by Satan when he arrives on earth in his role as the Antichrist with his locust army of fallen angels. Then all except those that have the seal of God in their foreheads will follow the false Christ again, as recorded in Revelation 9:4; "And it was commanded them [the locust army of fallen angels] that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men [ and women] which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."


That "seal" are all the truths recorded in God's Word of the events of the end times and stored away in your heart and mind so that you will not be deceived by the Antichrist. We need to grow in the Word whereby we can understand and become strengthened, and know how powerful our heavenly Father is.


So, In the beginning "was" the Word. The word "was" in the Greek is "aions", and it means simply that there is no number because it is so far back in time. It was then that the Word and all three offices of God still existed. It means that God and His Word preexisted before anything that your mind can place an image on.


Simply don't struggle with man's systems and designed notions of God's creation. Book knowledge is great, but when it comes time for reality, the evidence that exists is strewn all over this earth. Open your mind to the greatness of our God. Use common sense in your studying of God's Word. Don't throw out the fossils and geological data that is obvious for the sake of your defending God, for both He, and His Word simply don't need your defending. God's Word will support itself.

 

[Enow]

PS. No, you cannot prove the TR copies of copies are inspired. What garbage!

And learning the Greek and Hebrew so you can rightly divide the word of truth is an instruction you find in scripture? How is that not more garbage?

2 Peter 1:[SUP]19 [/SUP]We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1 John 2:[SUP]20 [/SUP]But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:[SUP]14 [/SUP]But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;[SUP] 15 [/SUP]And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1 Corinthians 3:1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Hebrews 11:[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1 John 2:[SUP]26 [/SUP]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I have used scripture to prove your conclusion as false. The TR are inspired when the truth in scripture does not run against the truth in other scripture as modern Bibles do today.

What you are practicing is garbage when scripture does not teach us to learn Greek & Hebrew to understand His words in the KJV or any other English Bible Version that we have today, but the Holy Spirit in us can point out a decline from the testimony of the Son, thus stating a lie in modern Bibles as He can help any one find in Romans 8:26-27 as running against the truth in John 16:13 of that modern Bible.

That is why I am relying on the KJV for the meat of His words, and I thank Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd for that.

 

[EarsToHear]

John 14:2 The same was in the beginning with God.


"The same", is better translated, "The Word" was in the beginning with God." In the Hebrew text it is implied " "He" was in the beginning with God." This also implies both singularly, the Spirit, or the Word, Jesus Christ, was in the beginning with the Father.

 

[EarsToHear]

John 1:3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.


The subject to this point has been "the Word" itself. Now the subject changes to the creation of all things. God spoke and nothing became everything. To the human mind, it is incomprehensible. As you consider this verse, try to see the three offices of God that are in this; the Son, the Spirit, and the Father. All these three combined have brought into focus "the Word". Jesus Christ is the Word, and because these three are one, then we have one God.


When that Word spoke our very souls were brought into existence, and that is why we address Him as Father. Our authority of being able to approach Him in our sinning condition of these flesh bodies is solely because of what the office of His Son, Jesus Christ did on the cross of Calvary. Our souls existed in the spiritual body, and upon conception, each soul entered into human body form of that embryo. Our closeness and Love for our Heavenly Father existed even prior to the entering into human body form.

 

[Enow]

REV. 18:24.

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Compare that event to the 3 angels that set up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth in Revelations 14:6-13. The fall of Babylon given in detail in revelation 18th chapter, happened by that second angel which came after the first angel with everlasting gospel had spread every where and before the third angel that warned everyone remaining on the earth after that cataclysm of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast to buy & sell which is the lake of fire.

Do note that before the 3 angels has set up that hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth, Revelation 14:1-6 testified of the pre trib rapture indirectly, by testifying out of those raptured that make up His personal choir that shall follow Him wherever He goes, and that is those 144,000 virgin men in whose tongue there is no guile.

2:10.
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison,
that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death,
and I will give thee a crown of life.

That is a promise to those who suffer now in the tribulation of this present world.

7:14.
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out
of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of The Lamb.

Those are the saints that got left behind because they needed their robes cleaned for having been defiled with iniquity.

17:6.
And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:
and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

That is referring to those saints that committed spiritual fornication on the Bridegroom by stepping out on Him by chasing after seducing spirits to receive after a sign and thus after doctrines of devils.

Revelation 17:1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:[SUP]2 [/SUP]With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

It is liken to slain in the spirit and the holy laughter and seeking to drink again what they believe is the Holy spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation, but is vain & profane babbling nonsense.

Of course, if they turn to Jesus Christ, their Good Shepherd for help to discern that iniquity so as to depart from it before the Bridegroom comes, they may be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House at the pre trib rapture event.

Revelation 2:[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[SUP] 23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

[Enow]

Well, again, context rules. Harpazo, ἁρπαγησόμεθα in 1 Thess. 4:17, is part of a statement, in which we will be "snatched" and meet Jesus in the air. In fact, I don't really think it means go up anywhere, but I am willing to concede some movement might be involved.

And yet you believed initially in your reply in this thread that they will meet the Lord in the air and then turn around to come back down as in return? Why should any one believe in what you say when you are not being consistent by your claim of rightly interpreting a word even in context?

( I am assuming she does have me on ignore, but this is a rebuttal to what she is sharing )

To make a doctrine out of one out-of-context word, which was transliterated into Latin, and then taken from Jerome's poor translation, and then a doctrine made up in the 18th century about this is beyond absurd. And then the OP claiming that if a born again Christian doesn't believe in this doctrine, they will be punished and not get to go "up" in this so-called "rapture" is just ludicrous!

Where does it say in the OP that I said that if you do not believe in the rapture, that saved believers will be left behind?

The OP has scripture that explains why some christians will not want to leave when the Bridegroom comes, and that has to do with the cares of this life, tempting them that love this world and their loved ones more that they would not want to leave.

Maybe it will be a christian couple on their long awaited honeymoon that would be tempted not to leave.

Maybe it will be a christian that just got a promotion and big megga bucks of a raise that would not want to leave.

Maybe it will be wanting to see their daughter married off for why they would not want to leave.

Maybe they are just "committed" to do something and they are religious in doing it still.

Maybe they loved someone not saved and they cannot bear to leave them alone when left behind.

Maybe they bought a new dream home with white picket fences and do not want to leave it.

Maybe some little girl finally got a pony but do not want to leave it.

Maybe some guy bought some fancy sports car to wow the ladies and his friends and he has not shown it off yet.

Maybe some christian might be drunk at the time and still partying to not want to leave yet.

So other than being found in iniquity for why a saved believer would be disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper, some saved believers may actually be tempted not to go because their hearts are on the treasures and pleasures of this life and not on the ones above.

 

[Enow]

I was a blind and maimed gentile down one of those lane ways when His servants found and give me His invitation. Now I'm a son of the Living God.

Now live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ, trusting Him as your Good Shepherd to have you to be found abiding in Him and His word as walking in the light to maintain that fellowship with the Father & the Son. Trust Him to help you to continue to lay aside every weight & sin in living as His son of the living God.

Not all saved believers are doing that of applying faith in Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd to help them to follow Him which is what the cost of discipleship is about; being ready as found abiding in Him as well as willing to leave this life when the Bridegroom comes in following Him as His disciple to the Marriage Supper above.

 

[shrume]

And yet you believed initially in your reply in this thread that they will meet the Lord in the air and then turn around to come back down as in return? Why should any one believe in what you say when you are not being consistent by your claim of rightly interpreting a word even in context?

( I am assuming she does have me on ignore, but this is a rebuttal to what she is sharing )



Where does it say in the OP that I said that if you do not believe in the rapture, that saved believers will be left behind?

The OP has scripture that explains why some christians will not want to leave when the Bridegroom comes, and that has to do with the cares of this life, tempting them that love this world and their loved ones more that they would not want to leave.

Maybe it will be a christian couple on their long awaited honeymoon that would be tempted not to leave.

Maybe it will be a christian that just got a promotion and big megga bucks of a raise that would not want to leave.

Maybe it will be wanting to see their daughter married off for why they would not want to leave.

Maybe they are just "committed" to do something and they are religious in doing it still.

Maybe they loved someone not saved and they cannot bear to leave them alone when left behind.

Maybe they bought a new dream home with white picket fences and do not want to leave it.

Maybe some little girl finally got a pony but do not want to leave it.

Maybe some guy bought some fancy sports car to wow the ladies and his friends and he has not shown it off yet.

Maybe some christian might be drunk at the time and still partying to not want to leave yet.

So other than being found in iniquity for why a saved believer would be disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper, some saved believers may actually be tempted not to go because their hearts are on the treasures and pleasures of this life and not on the ones above.

What you do not understand is that Jesus will not ask Christians if they want to go at the rapture. If they are Christian, born of the Holy Spirit, they are a member of his church, the body of Christ, and they will go.

 

[Enow]

What you do not understand is that Jesus will not ask Christians if they want to go at the rapture. If they are Christian, born of the Holy Spirit, they are a member of his church, the body of Christ, and they will go.

Then explain why Jesus was giving these warnings to pray in order to escape?

Luke 21:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.[SUP] 34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.[SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.[SUP] 36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Why did Jesus even mentioned Lot's wife if it is an automatic given that every saved believer will be taken?

Luke 17:[SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP] 33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

So there is a snare in the cares of this life where saved believers' hearts are on the treasures of this world and not on the treasures above that they would not want to leave this life behind at all.

Colossians 3:1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

 

[Blain]

Luke 14:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:[SUP] 17 [/SUP]And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.[SUP] 18 [/SUP]And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.[SUP]21 [/SUP]So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.[SUP] 23 [/SUP]And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.[SUP]24 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

If you don't think you would refuse the Bridegroom when He comes at the pre trib rapture for any of those reasons above, I would advise you to heed His warning because He said it will be a snare for those living at the time that He comes.

Luke 21:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.[SUP] 34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.[SUP] 35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.[SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 17:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;[SUP] 29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.[SUP] 30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.[SUP] 31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.[SUP] 32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

So some saints will love their lives and their loved ones that they will not want to leave when the Bridegroom comes.

So watch and pray always that the Lord will help you be far more willing to leave your life and your loved ones behind.

You know we assume we know how things are going to go down when the time comes but I have found that God can be unpredictable, how do we not know that God may be grooming his warriors to be there for those left behind? And if say we are given the choice to stay or go with him maybe some would choose to stay but not because of the love of the things and ways of this world but some of us did not seek to be strong in him for ourselves.

Take me for instance, I have always told God that I would be truly honored to serve him and to serve others in the tribulation because I know that it is in that time that his light and love and peace will be non existent the most,but I also say to him that if I could have it a certain way I would ask that I can go and be with him for a time and to finally have the kind of love and closeness with him that I have sought after with him and to receive the treasures he and I have sought together and after a time of being with him I would ask that he sends me back so that I may share the riches that I was given in a world that needs it the most. of course I also would be willing if it was his will and if he needed me to stay and not go in the rapture so that I could stand when others could not and to be able to help others to stand and to seek him even in such a time of blood of darkness.

Now I don't know how it is going to happen or even if my request would be taken into consideration but I am hopeful because last year I had a dream that I was standing with my family when suddenly a king appeared to me and told me I was royalty and he gave me the choice to either stay with my family or come to live with him in his kingdom. As much as I loved my family I had never been royalty so I went with him and we suddenly were way way up so far up that no man could ever hope to go there it was like it was in an entirely different dimension and in his kingdom I was rich far more rich than I could have ever hoped for and I was royalty but I looked down at the earth and saw it had become extremely poor and I wanted to share my riches with them.

I do not claim to know how the rapture is going to happen but I also would not put it past him to have those who would feel the calling to stay and be his light in the dark and blood filled world

 

[shrume]

Then explain why Jesus was giving these warnings to pray in order to escape?

Luke 21:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.[SUP] 34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.[SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.[SUP] 36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Why did Jesus even mentioned Lot's wife if it is an automatic given that every saved believer will be taken?

Luke 17:[SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP] 33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Jesus was not speaking to Christians, nor about the rapture. The rapture will be for Christians, people born again of the Holy Spirit. Nobody was born of the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost. It's very true that we should be looking forward to his coming, but whether we are or not, if a person is a Christian, he is a member of the church of the body of Christ, and when Christ returns to gather his church, every Christian will go.

So there is a snare in the cares of this life where saved believers' hearts are on the treasures of this world and not on the treasures above that they would not want to leave this life behind at all.

Again, it will not be a choice. When Christ returns to gather the Christian church, every member of that church will go. Nobody will be left behind.

Colossians 3:1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Great verse, and we should all heed it. But it is in no way saying that if a Christian is not looking forward to Christ's return for his church that they will be left behind.

 

[Dai3234]

Most likely, none of you are going to listen or look, but I'll mention it once.

The LAST TRUMP, is when the end of time is. They're was no Zero in greek, so 1000= 1000* +, = millennia * ?

They're is no sense in a 1000 year reign after. Look up the 70 weeks of Daniel, revelation, and beast etc, on grace and truth ministries, YouTube.

Learn from a wider pool. And get out of the puddle of one preacher knows all etc.

I can't be bothered anymore, I'm tired of this rubbish. God will let you know if he wants you to know. Whatever.

 

[Enow]

You know we assume we know how things are going to go down when the time comes but I have found that God can be unpredictable, how do we not know that God may be grooming his warriors to be there for those left behind? And if say we are given the choice to stay or go with him maybe some would choose to stay but not because of the love of the things and ways of this world but some of us did not seek to be strong in him for ourselves.

Take me for instance, I have always told God that I would be truly honored to serve him and to serve others in the tribulation because I know that it is in that time that his light and love and peace will be non existent the most,but I also say to him that if I could have it a certain way I would ask that I can go and be with him for a time and to finally have the kind of love and closeness with him that I have sought after with him and to receive the treasures he and I have sought together and after a time of being with him I would ask that he sends me back so that I may share the riches that I was given in a world that needs it the most. of course I also would be willing if it was his will and if he needed me to stay and not go in the rapture so that I could stand when others could not and to be able to help others to stand and to seek him even in such a time of blood of darkness.

Now I don't know how it is going to happen or even if my request would be taken into consideration but I am hopeful because last year I had a dream that I was standing with my family when suddenly a king appeared to me and told me I was royalty and he gave me the choice to either stay with my family or come to live with him in his kingdom. As much as I loved my family I had never been royalty so I went with him and we suddenly were way way up so far up that no man could ever hope to go there it was like it was in an entirely different dimension and in his kingdom I was rich far more rich than I could have ever hoped for and I was royalty but I looked down at the earth and saw it had become extremely poor and I wanted to share my riches with them.

I do not claim to know how the rapture is going to happen but I also would not put it past him to have those who would feel the calling to stay and be his light in the dark and blood filled world

Well, you made the right choice, and hopefully, we will see each other there, but the sharing of the riches will come at the millennium reign of Christ.

The part of leaving has to be resting in the knowledge that those saints left behind, He will take care of them for He is still in them and is with them always. He will help them face death, and we are not God to be able to be there for them to help them face death or set an example for them. It is better to trust in the Lord than to have confidence in our selves so we can leave them behind into His hands so that when the times comes, The Lord be willing, there would be more of us that can share those riches to others.

Luke 12:[SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.[SUP] 41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?[SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?[SUP] 43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.[SUP] 44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.[SUP] 45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;[SUP] 46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.[SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.[SUP] 49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Those left behind will be receiving stripes for not being found abiding in Him nor being willing to leave when He had come.

So that is why we have to love Him more than those left behind, and I am sure I need His help to love Him more so I can leave then in His care.

 

[Enow]

Jesus was not speaking to Christians, nor about the rapture. The rapture will be for Christians, people born again of the Holy Spirit. Nobody was born of the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost. It's very true that we should be looking forward to his coming, but whether we are or not, if a person is a Christian, he is a member of the church of the body of Christ, and when Christ returns to gather his church, every Christian will go.

Again, it will not be a choice. When Christ returns to gather the Christian church, every member of that church will go. Nobody will be left behind.

That is not what I am reading in the warning below addressed to those who believe in Him.

Luke 13:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.[SUP] 29 [/SUP]And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Believers that are workers of iniquity will be left behind, unless they depart from that iniquity with His help before He comes.

Colossians 3:1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Great verse, and we should all heed it. But it is in no way saying that if a Christian is not looking forward to Christ's return for his church that they will be left behind.

That was not a verse about one has to believe in the rapture to be raptured. That is not what I am saying and neither is that verse. It is about where our hearts is at. Here is another reference in why christians will not want to leave.

Matthew 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:[SUP] 21 [/SUP]For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

That is why the warning is given in Luke.

Luke 17:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;[SUP] 29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.[SUP] 30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.[SUP] 31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.[SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

So where a believer's heart is at on this life, is the snare to avoid as some believers will think they can take their treasures & their loved ones with them to Heaven. Problem is, Jesus is not going to wait.

 

[Enow]

Most likely, none of you are going to listen or look, but I'll mention it once.

The LAST TRUMP, is when the end of time is. They're was no Zero in greek, so 1000= 1000* +, = millennia * ?

They're is no sense in a 1000 year reign after. Look up the 70 weeks of Daniel, revelation, and beast etc, on grace and truth ministries, YouTube.

Learn from a wider pool. And get out of the puddle of one preacher knows all etc.

I can't be bothered anymore, I'm tired of this rubbish. God will let you know if he wants you to know. Whatever.

Well, if you are set by one preacher's teaching, and you will not bother to correct or address the scripture of the OP for the concern given, you can't really blame others for sticking to their set beliefs.

Jesus gave warnings that can apply only for this life we are living in; not for the great tribulation. As bad as it will be for christians to be hunted and killed during the great tribulation, the snares of everyday life will hardly be present during the great tribulation, let alone at the end of the great tribulation.

So in that light, you have to get out of your set beliefs and discern with Him as obviously you are not seeing everything.

 

[Dino246]

And learning the Greek and Hebrew so you can rightly divide the word of truth is an instruction you find in scripture? How is that not more garbage?
...
I have used scripture to prove your conclusion as false. The TR are inspired when the truth in scripture does not run against the truth in other scripture as modern Bibles do today.

You have done nothing of the sort, and I'm surprised that you would make such a claim. To take your reasoning to its logical end, where in Scripture does it say that the TR is inspired? Answer: it isn't there! I guess your conclusion is garbage!

The Scripture is inspired. The translation isn't, at least not in the way your claim. That's a canard that many KJV-only proponents try to use, to their own discredit. That idea simply doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny, no matter how much it aligns with your particular pet theories.

 

[BillG]

Why do we argue over such things?
It seems arguments are here on this thread.

Does it matter if I am wrong and your right?

We can argue about the rapture, pre trib, post trib, a millennial and so on.

What releveance does it have to the people that Jesus has called us to walk alongside?

Nothing at all.

It’s good to talk and discuss such things but the reality is there will be differences but the truth is be like Jesus, walk like Jesus and others will see it and want it.

Yes discuss such things but ensure that we don’t make it a hill to die on.

Jesus died on hill for one reason and only one reason.

And its not to argue about what I have seen on here.

 

[Enow]

You have done nothing of the sort, and I'm surprised that you would make such a claim. To take your reasoning to its logical end, where in Scripture does it say that the TR is inspired? Answer: it isn't there! I guess your conclusion is garbage!

The Scripture is inspired. The translation isn't, at least not in the way your claim. That's a canard that many KJV-only proponents try to use, to their own discredit. That idea simply doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny, no matter how much it aligns with your particular pet theories.

You are the one opposing yourself. By your reasoning, rejecting the TR as inspired, then no Bible version is inspired, because you cannot prove those other sources as inspired either by your standard.

And you have used references from Bible versions.

Scripture cannot go against scripture as no lie can be of the truth. The KJV passes that test in John 16:13 in keeping the truth in Romans 8:26-27 and the only reason you cry foul because you like Romans 8:26-27 in modern Bibles that support directly or indirectly that believers can pray in tongues even though John 16:13 in that same modern bible you are using testify to the contrary that opposes how you are taking Romans 8:26-27 to mean for praying in tongues.

 

[Enow]

Why do we argue over such things?
It seems arguments are here on this thread.

Does it matter if I am wrong and your right?

We can argue about the rapture, pre trib, post trib, a millennial and so on.

What releveance does it have to the people that Jesus has called us to walk alongside?

Nothing at all.

It’s good to talk and discuss such things but the reality is there will be differences but the truth is be like Jesus, walk like Jesus and others will see it and want it.

Yes discuss such things but ensure that we don’t make it a hill to die on.

Jesus died on hill for one reason and only one reason.

And its not to argue about what I have seen on here.

It is uncomfortable to see, I know.

Galatians 4:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Feel free to answer what Jesus is talking about in all those scriptural references for the concern given in the title of the OP.

Or how about stick to this one reference instead below?

He is warning us to pray for what reason in Luke 21:33-36 that is a snare for believers to find themselves in when He comes?

Luke 21:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.[SUP] 34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.[SUP] 35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.[SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[shrume]

That is not what I am reading in the warning below addressed to those who believe in Him.

Luke 13:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.[SUP] 29 [/SUP]And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Believers that are workers of iniquity will be left behind, unless they depart from that iniquity with His help before He comes.

That was not a verse about one has to believe in the rapture to be raptured. That is not what I am saying and neither is that verse. It is about where our hearts is at. Here is another reference in why christians will not want to leave.

Matthew 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:[SUP] 21 [/SUP]For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

That is why the warning is given in Luke.

Luke 17:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;[SUP] 29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.[SUP] 30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.[SUP] 31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.[SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

So where a believer's heart is at on this life, is the snare to avoid as some believers will think they can take their treasures & their loved ones with them to Heaven. Problem is, Jesus is not going to wait.

You don't understand what it means to be a Christian, a born again child of God and a member of the church of the body of Christ.