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God choose his elect before the foundation of the world and after the fall of Adam God had Christ to die for the sins of his elect to reconcil them back to him. Sometime after his elect are born int this world by the natural birth, He quickens them from being dead(spiritual dead) in sin to a spiritual life. The natural man does not desire to serve a spiritual God because he cannot descern spiritual things, they are foolishness unto him, 1 Cor 2:14.
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Something to think about...
Could it be that Faith and Grace go hand in hand, opposite sides of the same coin, thus you can't have one without the other?
Debating which comes first, faith or grace, makes absolutely no sense seeing both are required for salvation and both originate from God / are gifts from God.
We receive our faith through the light of the gospel that shines unto us so that we can believe in our heart unto the righteousness of God by faith. When our volition agrees with the faith we have been given through the light of the gospel, that is believing unto righteousness that was procured for us through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The reference of an appointed time of being chosen before the foundation of the world speaks to the fact that God's calling and election is eternal and not partial. He was before all things (Col 1:17) and what He foreknew through His eternal omniscience does not take away from His Son shedding His blood for the sins of the world (1Jn 2:2) nor does it take away from the heart of God that is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance (2Pt 3:9).
God has no problem overcoming the natural mind of man through the light of His word that is quick and powerful according to (Heb 4:12). This is why the word of God must be preached in season and out of season (2Tim 4:2), to catch people off guard when it is not convenient for them and when they are in great need. When the natural mind hears the word being preached with the conviction and power of the Holy Spirit, man is hard-pressed to resist and often is broken down in their heart to a place of humility so that they can receive grace (1Pt 5:5, Jm 4:6). This is the conviction work of the word and Holy Spirit drawing lost souls to the place of the cross where all their sin was paid for and judged through death.
God has no problem overcoming the natural mind of man through the light of His word that is quick and powerful according to (Heb 4:12). This is why the word of God must be preached in season and out of season (2Tim 4:2), to catch people off guard when it is not convenient for them and when they are in great need. When the natural mind hears the word being preached with the conviction and power of the Holy Spirit, man is hard-pressed to resist and often is broken down in their heart to a place of humility so that they can receive grace (1Pt 5:5, Jm 4:6). This is the conviction work of the word and Holy Spirit drawing lost souls to the place of the cross where all their sin was paid for and judged through death.
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1 John 2:2, The word "world" according to Greek interpretation means 'used of believers only". 2 Pet 3:9, In 2 Pet 1:1 we find that Peter is talking to them that have obtained like precious faith. Peter is warning them, and even includes himself by using the word "us-ward" to beware of scoffers and to repent of their sins so that none should perish(lose their fellowship with God). The only way a natural man can become spiritual is by the intervention of God quickening them from a death (spiritual death) in sin to a life in Christ.Eph 2:1-5.
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Ephesians 2:8-10
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
... 'nuff said.
Forest, you are not listening to what the Spirit is saying through the written word. Now listen to what the unadulterated and inspired scriptures teach us about faith in relationship to the gospel. Listen to these scriptures as if it is the first time that you heard them and receive what they have to say as a little child...
Rom 10:8-17
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Gal 3:1,2
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Rom 10:8-17
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Gal 3:1,2
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
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Redd33, If you believe that the scriptures teach that eternal salvation is by the grace of God and not by the works of man, then can you honestly say that the salvation in Rom 10 is refering to eternal salvation? These people that Paul is refering to have already been born of the Spirit and have, verse 2, a zeal(devotion)of God. The natural man does not have a devotion of God according to 1 Cor 2:14. In verse 10, does this sound like this salvation comes by the works of God, or the works of man? Believing and confessing are works of man. Man is acting upon his faith which he received as a fruit that comes from the Spirit, Gal 5:22. Man must be born of the Spirit before he has access to spiritual faith.1 Cor 2:14. This salvation is not eternal but timely. Verse 3 tells us what they can be saved from if they will believe and confess of their sin of trusting in their own righteousness and not submiting themselves unto the righteousness of God, they will be saved from depending upon their own righteousness. Verse 17 tells us that once we have been born of the Spirit and have access to spiritual faith our faith will grow by hearing the word. 1 Pet 2:2, As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby. The natural man does not believe in a spiritual God because he cannot discern spiritual things, they are foolishness to him. Verse 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord. The natural man will not call upon the name of the Lord, Ps 10:4.
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Are you saying that these non-believing jews that Paul addresses in Rom.10:1-4 are born of the Spirit?! Being zealous, even if it is claimed that it is for God, may not necessarily be charactheristic for a regenerated person. There are carnal people who are zealous for their cause too. Never is zeal, in itself, said to be a sign of regeneration. One can be zealous for the good, yes, but one can also be zealous for the wrong and evil.
Some galatians had a zealous affection, but it was "not well".
Paul had a blameless zeal prior to his conversion, when persecuting the church - unto death.
Look again at the context:
This spoken to non-believing jews.
Some galatians had a zealous affection, but it was "not well".
Paul had a blameless zeal prior to his conversion, when persecuting the church - unto death.
Look again at the context:
This spoken to non-believing jews.
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Let's say that you invite your neighbor to come to church with you or you testify of the gospel to someone on the street. They hear the gospel for the first time and the light of the gospel shines unto them in their heart. At that moment it is the appointed time for them to believe, the time for them to accept God's salvation and be born again through the word and Spirit. Through the light of the gospel they have received a capacity to believe the gospel by faith that came to them by grace as a sinner. They exercise that faith that was given to them by grace and were saved, forgiven and cleansed from all sin because they believed unto the righteousness of God.
Through faith God imputed His righteousness unto them when they believed upon the Son through the finished work of Christ (the gospel of His death, burial and resurrection). They were dead in trespasses and sins until the light of the gospel shined in their hearts and they believed by grace through faith and were saved and made new creatures in Christ through the new birth. That was an appointment they had with God through the gospel and they believed and were reconciled to God through faith. The origin of our faith begins with hearing the light of the gospel. Shed that old shell Forest and come clean.
...Receive you the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:2)?
Through faith God imputed His righteousness unto them when they believed upon the Son through the finished work of Christ (the gospel of His death, burial and resurrection). They were dead in trespasses and sins until the light of the gospel shined in their hearts and they believed by grace through faith and were saved and made new creatures in Christ through the new birth. That was an appointment they had with God through the gospel and they believed and were reconciled to God through faith. The origin of our faith begins with hearing the light of the gospel. Shed that old shell Forest and come clean.
...Receive you the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:2)?
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When the natural man hears the word of God, it is foolishness unto him, 1 Cor 2:14. Ps 10:4 the wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God, God is not in all his thoughts. Our faith can save us from many things here in this world, but it cannot save us eternally. We are justified only by Christ's faith and not our own, Gal 2:16.