WORKS

[Red33]

When the natural man hears the word of God, it is foolishness unto him, 1 Cor 2:14. Ps 10:4 the wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God, God is not in all his thoughts. Our faith can save us from many things here in this world, but it cannot save us eternally. We are justified only by Christ's faith and not our own, Gal 2:16.

You make it sound as if you have never been a sinner or a natural man not able to receive the things of God yourself. Because of how you believe it is no wonder that you continually make the natural man a constant issue of contention. Perhaps that has been a secret problem in your own life that you struggle with and it keeps you from being a true worshipper and from true fellowship with God and other believers. It can be very lonely being an independent Christian without the fellowship and supply of the Spirit from other believers. It's like being detached from the body that God has made you a part of and you think you can make it on your own because God is with you. That is a false concept and is not the truth.

We are members one of another and members of Christ's body, flesh and bones (Rom 12:5, Eph 5:30). Christ is the head and we are members of His body. To detach ourselves from the body is to be detached from the head and the life that the head gives to the body. Being detached from the body, we can not receive from the head or from the supply of the other members having no derived life from Christ. The things of God are only knowledge to us without the life and power of that knowledge that comes from the head (Christ) through the Spirit. We may have faith but not a living faith as lively stones (1Pt 2:4,5). We may understand the love of God but it's not being shed abroad in our hearts by a living faith through the Holy Spirit (Rom 5:5).

 

[Forest]

You make it sound as if you have never been a sinner or a natural man not able to receive the things of God yourself. Because of how you believe it is no wonder that you continually make the natural man a constant issue of contention. Perhaps that has been a secret problem in your own life that you struggle with and it keeps you from being a true worshipper and from true fellowship with God and other believers. It can be very lonely being an independent Christian without the fellowship and supply of the Spirit from other believers. It's like being detached from the body that God has made you a part of and you think you can make it on your own because God is with you. That is a false concept and is not the truth.

We are members one of another and members of Christ's body, flesh and bones (Rom 12:5, Eph 5:30). Christ is the head and we are members of His body. To detach ourselves from the body is to be detached from the head and the life that the head gives to the body. Being detached from the body, we can not receive from the head or from the supply of the other members having no derived life from Christ. The things of God are only knowledge to us without the life and power of that knowledge that comes from the head (Christ) through the Spirit. We may have faith but not a living faith as lively stones (1Pt 2:4,5). We may understand the love of God but it's not being shed abroad in our hearts by a living faith through the Holy Spirit (Rom 5:5).

All of God's elect were at one time full of wrath before God quickened them to a spiritual life, Eph 2:2-3. All mankind is born into this world by natural birth and are but a natural man void of righteousness and will not seek after God or understand spiritual things until God quickens him to a spiritual life 1 Cor 2:14.. Those of the elect that have been revealed the truth of Christ's doctrine are the only ones that worship God in Spirit and in truth. Most of God's elect have not been revealed the knowledge of the truth. The two gates depicted in Matt 7:13-14 are gates that all of the elect go into. The wide gate are those of God's children that are believing in false doctrines and those that go into the strait gate are those that have been revealed by the Holy Spirit the knowledge of the truth and worship him in truth and in spirit.

 

[Forest]

The reference of an appointed time of being chosen before the foundation of the world speaks to the fact that God's calling and election is eternal and not partial. He was before all things (Col 1:17) and what He foreknew through His eternal omniscience does not take away from His Son shedding His blood for the sins of the world (1Jn 2:2) nor does it take away from the heart of God that is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance (2Pt 3:9).

God has no problem overcoming the natural mind of man through the light of His word that is quick and powerful according to (Heb 4:12). This is why the word of God must be preached in season and out of season (2Tim 4:2), to catch people off guard when it is not convenient for them and when they are in great need. When the natural mind hears the word being preached with the conviction and power of the Holy Spirit, man is hard-pressed to resist and often is broken down in their heart to a place of humility so that they can receive grace (1Pt 5:5, Jm 4:6). This is the conviction work of the word and Holy Spirit drawing lost souls to the place of the cross where all their sin was paid for and judged through death.

In relation of what you have just told me, how do you explain 1 Cor 2:14?

 

[Forest]

Are you saying that these non-believing jews that Paul addresses in Rom.10:1-4 are born of the Spirit?! Being zealous, even if it is claimed that it is for God, may not necessarily be charactheristic for a regenerated person. There are carnal people who are zealous for their cause too. Never is zeal, in itself, said to be a sign of regeneration. One can be zealous for the good, yes, but one can also be zealous for the wrong and evil.

Some galatians had a zealous affection, but it was "not well".

Paul had a blameless zeal prior to his conversion, when persecuting the church - unto death.

Look again at the context:

This spoken to non-believing jews.

If the people in Rom 10 had a zeal to improve themselves, then they are carnal, but these people had a zeal "OF GOD". And therefore born again.

 

[Forest]

Let's say that you invite your neighbor to come to church with you or you testify of the gospel to someone on the street. They hear the gospel for the first time and the light of the gospel shines unto them in their heart. At that moment it is the appointed time for them to believe, the time for them to accept God's salvation and be born again through the word and Spirit. Through the light of the gospel they have received a capacity to believe the gospel by faith that came to them by grace as a sinner. They exercise that faith that was given to them by grace and were saved, forgiven and cleansed from all sin because they believed unto the righteousness of God.

Through faith God imputed His righteousness unto them when they believed upon the Son through the finished work of Christ (the gospel of His death, burial and resurrection). They were dead in trespasses and sins until the light of the gospel shined in their hearts and they believed by grace through faith and were saved and made new creatures in Christ through the new birth. That was an appointment they had with God through the gospel and they believed and were reconciled to God through faith. The origin of our faith begins with hearing the light of the gospel. Shed that old shell Forest and come clean.

...Receive you the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:2)?

Your example does not fit the description of the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[shroom2]

If the people in Rom 10 had a zeal to improve themselves, then they are carnal, but these people had a zeal "OF GOD". And therefore born again.

Many people have a zeal for God who aren't born again.

 

[tribesman]

If the people in Rom 10 had a zeal to improve themselves, then they are carnal, but these people had a zeal "OF GOD". And therefore born again.

No. There is no scripture that says that the people that Paul addressed in Rom. 10:1-4 were born again. Paul said that they were not saved. So it means that they were lost. Even though they had a zeal for God. Because at that point they lacked the knowledge that comes with regeneration.

I think you cannot see how you contradict scripture here, can you?

 

[Forest]

No. There is no scripture that says that the people that Paul addressed in Rom. 10:1-4 were born again. Paul said that they were not saved. So it means that they were lost. Even though they had a zeal for God. Because at that point they lacked the knowledge that comes with regeneration.

I think you cannot see how you contradict scripture here, can you?

I think that you are not seeing and understanding the depravity of man. Even the elect of God for most of them do not have a knowledge and understanding of the truth of Christ's doctrine. Even the few that have been shown the truth of the gospel of Christ, do, still carry the sinful nature of the flesh. Paul tells us about that warfare going on inside of us, the flesh waring against the Spirit.