Worshipping the Bible is Idolatry!
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E
StMichaelTheArchangel;608855 said:
That's not a Scriptural teaching. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that the Bible is the only source of authority, in fact it says that the "Church of the Living God is the Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15)
So where is the Church, the Pillar of the Truth? It is in Apostolic Eastern Orthodoxy. It is the most biblical form of Christianity and the most non-heretical. All of the other Churches have heresies in them except the Eastern Orthodox Church.
The heresy of Protestantism is that they believe that the Bible can be interpreted by themselves without elders which have the right to interpret it.
So where is the Church, the Pillar of the Truth? It is in Apostolic Eastern Orthodoxy. It is the most biblical form of Christianity and the most non-heretical. All of the other Churches have heresies in them except the Eastern Orthodox Church.
The heresy of Protestantism is that they believe that the Bible can be interpreted by themselves without elders which have the right to interpret it.
who believes this? I do not believe I can interpret the scripture without Gods help. nor does anyone I know. What we believe is that God will hold us accountable for our belief. not someone elses belief, thus we refuse to blindly follow any man, including those who lead us, without testing what they have to say. and we trust God, through the HS given to us, to help us as long as we seek truth with an open heart, minus any preconcieved ideas. (which I might add, have failed me many times)
and who said only an elder can interpret correctly? Seems like many elders of the early church screwed this up and had to be corrected.
The only difference between catholocism and orthodoxy is the catholics only believe one man can rightly interpret. the orthodoxy believes certain men (not one) can. other than that, there is no difference.
who believes this? I do not believe I can interpret the scripture without Gods help. nor does anyone I know. What we believe is that God will hold us accountable for our belief. not someone elses belief, thus we refuse to blindly follow any man, including those who lead us, without testing what they have to say. and we trust God, through the HS given to us, to help us as long as we seek truth with an open heart, minus any preconcieved ideas. (which I might add, have failed me many times)
and who said only an elder can interpret correctly? Seems like many elders of the early church screwed this up and had to be corrected.
The only difference between catholocism and orthodoxy is the catholics only believe one man can rightly interpret. the orthodoxy believes certain men (not one) can. other than that, there is no difference
.
So, eternallygratefull: So do you believe only you yourself can correctly interpret the Bible, and you don't need to listen to anyone else, because that would automatically be "following men"? How can you even read the Bible? It was written by men. Men of God. But you are afraid of "following men". Don't you believe that a certain man, yourself, has the final say over others? You don't let anyone else teach you? Again, I'm not telling you what you say is wrong. It's just wrong to say Orthodoxy can't be right.
It makes no sense to say right belief is not right belief. Which is all Orthodoxy means. Don't be afraid of words!
Scott
PS There is a Big Difference Orthodoxy and Catholicism and Protestantism. Catholicism and Protestantism reject the words of Jesus Christ and say "And the Son". Orthodoxy believes Jesus Christ at His Word in John 15:26! Big major huge enormous difference, eternallygratefull!
The authority of the individual Protestant or the individual Pope of Rome: same problem: INDIVIDUALISM (PRIVATE INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURES).
There is no significant difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. They're both AUGUSTINIAN.
C
I can see how some people could be accused of worshiping the Bible. It's very obvious that some denominations have exalted the Bible into the position where the Holy Spirit should be thus they only follow their own interpretations of scripture rather than allowing and following the leadership of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
[quote
=shroom2;609003]Is that what your church teaches you? God thinks MUCH more highly of you than you or your church do. Through Christ, you are RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes.[/quote]
A man ought not to think highly of himself. Protestantism disagrees, and follows the same prideful spirit in Ezekiel 28.
It follows its false prophets, its Reformers. What else but pride are Luther's words "It is so because I, Herr Doctor Martin Luther, say it is so"? I'm not saying Luther wasn't necessarily or couldn't have been saved; I don't know. That's up to God. But he is a false teacher. That's what I believe.
I was deceived for many years. It's not what they taught me as Lutherans, but what they didn't tell me that deceived me.
My sins are my own fault, though, and no man told me to do what I did. I followed my own fallen heart. May God save me from myself that is from my sinful self. From my sinfulness.
God save us all.
It isn't for God to think highly of us. Or us to think highly of ourselves. But for us to think Highly of Only God Himself. Only God, God alone, is Good.
We are all sinners. In need of His mercy. Titus 3:5.
=shroom2;609003]Is that what your church teaches you? God thinks MUCH more highly of you than you or your church do. Through Christ, you are RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes.[/quote]
A man ought not to think highly of himself. Protestantism disagrees, and follows the same prideful spirit in Ezekiel 28.
It follows its false prophets, its Reformers. What else but pride are Luther's words "It is so because I, Herr Doctor Martin Luther, say it is so"? I'm not saying Luther wasn't necessarily or couldn't have been saved; I don't know. That's up to God. But he is a false teacher. That's what I believe.
I was deceived for many years. It's not what they taught me as Lutherans, but what they didn't tell me that deceived me.
My sins are my own fault, though, and no man told me to do what I did. I followed my own fallen heart. May God save me from myself that is from my sinful self. From my sinfulness.
God save us all.
It isn't for God to think highly of us. Or us to think highly of ourselves. But for us to think Highly of Only God Himself. Only God, God alone, is Good.
We are all sinners. In need of His mercy. Titus 3:5.
Crossfire;609038 said:
I can see how some people could be accused of worshiping the Bible. It's very obvious that some denominations have exalted the Bible into the position where the Holy Spirit should be thus they only follow their own interpretations of scripture rather than allowing and following the leadership of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
Most of the Protestant Confessions start with an Article about the Bible before they talk about God. That's a fact. Why? Is the Bible more important than God?
E
The Church is so great that I feel unworthy to be baptized in it, I am not a good enough Christian.
You know what is sad about this statement. Is that God is so great, and his family is so great. that not one person who has lived could ever be worthy of being adopted into his family.. That fact you think you could ever be worthy for anythign that has to do with God should lead you to wonder about your churches beliefs. And again only shows your trying to be "worthy" enough to earn salvation.
ps. Gods family is his church. If your not in his family, your not in his church, even if you attend a physical church which bears his name (or even preaches the truth)
pss.. There is NO SUCH THING as a GOOD ENOUGH CHRISTIAN.. They do not exist. All are unworthy to be called by the name of Christ.
E
So, eternallygratefull: So do you believe only you yourself can correctly interpret the Bible, and you don't need to listen to anyone else, because that would automatically be "following men"?
No Scott. I can not interpret on my own without help. First from God, WHO IS IN ME, And yes God gives me teachers. BUT I DO NOT FOLLOW THEM BLINDLY. I listen, then test what they say. If what they say does not add up. I do not believe what they say.
When I stand in front of God. I am not going to say thank you God for giving me this church to save me. I am going to say thank You god for showing me truth, and saving me.
How can you even read the Bible? It was written by men. Men of God.
But you are afraid of "following men".
Don't you believe that a certain man, yourself, has the final say over others?
Me?? Ha Ha Ha,, Anyone who puts their eternity in my hands would be a fool. I can show them the way, but I can't save them. Only God can. God gave no man the ability to pronounce guilt on innocence on any man as far as eternity goes.
You don't let anyone else teach you? Again, I'm not telling you what you say is wrong. It's just wrong to say Orthodoxy can't be right.
It makes no sense to say right belief is not right belief. Which is all Orthodoxy means. Don't be afraid of words!
Scott
PS There is a Big Difference Orthodoxy and Catholicism and Protestantism. Catholicism and Protestantism reject the words of Jesus Christ and say "And the Son". Orthodoxy believes Jesus Christ at His Word in John 15:26! Big major huge enormous difference, eternallygratefull!
The authority of the individual Protestant or the individual Pope of Rome: same problem: INDIVIDUALISM (PRIVATE INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURES).
There is no significant difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. They're both AUGUSTINIAN.
PS There is a Big Difference Orthodoxy and Catholicism and Protestantism. Catholicism and Protestantism reject the words of Jesus Christ and say "And the Son". Orthodoxy believes Jesus Christ at His Word in John 15:26! Big major huge enormous difference, eternallygratefull!
The authority of the individual Protestant or the individual Pope of Rome: same problem: INDIVIDUALISM (PRIVATE INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURES).
There is no significant difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. They're both AUGUSTINIAN.
Those who do not teach this f=gospel are false churches.
I am not worried about one word or one doctrine which separates churches. who cares?? You have bought into the romaqn lie and excuses.. You just used the eastern lies.
S
who believes this? I do not believe I can interpret the scripture without Gods help. nor does anyone I know. What we believe is that God will hold us accountable for our belief. not someone elses belief, thus we refuse to blindly follow any man, including those who lead us, without testing what they have to say. and we trust God, through the HS given to us, to help us as long as we seek truth with an open heart, minus any preconcieved ideas. (which I might add, have failed me many times)
and who said only an elder can interpret correctly? Seems like many elders of the early church screwed this up and had to be corrected.
The only difference between catholocism and orthodoxy is the catholics only believe one man can rightly interpret. the orthodoxy believes certain men (not one) can. other than that, there is no difference.
The belief of the Orthodox Church is in the Holy Spirit who opened the minds (Greek - NOUS) of the Church Fathers to "rightly divide the word of Truth" (2 Tim 1:15), and to "shepherd the flock of God exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God (had them.) would have you; "(1 Peter 5:2)
Jesus said that he would send the Spirit of Truth - when? After His Ascension and the day of Pentecost. Jesus said that the Spirit of Truth would, "guide you (them) into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will announce to you (them) things to come. John 16:13
Who did it guide into all the Truth? It was the Apostles and the Successors of the Apostles. Here is a list of the Eastern Orthodox Churches which have Apostolic Succession.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_succession#Orthodox_Churches
- The Patriarchate of Constantinople has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew.
- The Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark[21]
- The Russian Orthodox Church has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew[22]
- The Orthodox Church of Cyprus has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Barnabas[27]
- The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem has succession to the Throne of Saint James the Just,[29] although this line includes Patriarchs in exile.[30] (see Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem )
Is that what your church teaches you? God thinks MUCH more highly of you than you or your church do. Through Christ, you are RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes.
We are only righteous when we are Saints, we are not Saints yet. Only when we have deified out bodies and souls in Christ will we be "Righteous". A least speaking for myself. I know that I am not righteous. I maybe self righteous sometimes but I try to pray like the Publican and not the Pharisee.
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You know what is sad about this statement. Is that God is so great, and his family is so great. that not one person who has lived could ever be worthy of being adopted into his family.. That fact you think you could ever be worthy for anythign that has to do with God should lead you to wonder about your churches beliefs. And again only shows your trying to be "worthy" enough to earn salvation.
ps. Gods family is his church. If your not in his family, your not in his church, even if you attend a physical church which bears his name (or even preaches the truth)
pss.. There is NO SUCH THING as a GOOD ENOUGH CHRISTIAN.. They do not exist. All are unworthy to be called by the name of Christ.
What Scripture distinguishes between the family of God, and the Church of God? None. I believe Ephesians mentions both.
C
The belief of the Orthodox Church is in the Holy Spirit who opened the minds (Greek - NOUS) of the Church Fathers to "rightly divide the word of Truth" (2 Tim 1:15), and to "shepherd the flock of God exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God (had them.) would have you; "(1 Peter 5:2)
Jesus said that he would send the Spirit of Truth - when? After His Ascension and the day of Pentecost. Jesus said that the Spirit of Truth would, "guide you (them) into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will announce to you (them) things to come. John 16:13
Who did it guide into all the Truth? It was the Apostles and the Successors of the Apostles. Here is a list of the Eastern Orthodox Churches which have Apostolic Succession.
Apostolic succession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- The Patriarchate of Constantinople has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew.
- The Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark[21]
- The Russian Orthodox Church has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew[22]
- The Orthodox Church of Cyprus has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Barnabas[27]
- The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem has succession to the Throne of Saint James the Just,[29] although this line includes Patriarchs in exile.[30] (see Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem )
We are only righteous when we are Saints, we are not Saints yet. Only when we have deified out bodies and souls in Christ will we be "Righteous". A least speaking for myself. I know that I am not righteous. I maybe self righteous sometimes but I try to pray like the Publican and not the Pharisee.
Jesus said that he would send the Spirit of Truth - when? After His Ascension and the day of Pentecost. Jesus said that the Spirit of Truth would, "guide you (them) into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will announce to you (them) things to come. John 16:13
Who did it guide into all the Truth? It was the Apostles and the Successors of the Apostles. Here is a list of the Eastern Orthodox Churches which have Apostolic Succession.
Apostolic succession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- The Patriarchate of Constantinople has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew.
- The Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark[21]
- The Russian Orthodox Church has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew[22]
- The Orthodox Church of Cyprus has unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Barnabas[27]
- The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem has succession to the Throne of Saint James the Just,[29] although this line includes Patriarchs in exile.[30] (see Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem )
We are only righteous when we are Saints, we are not Saints yet. Only when we have deified out bodies and souls in Christ will we be "Righteous". A least speaking for myself. I know that I am not righteous. I maybe self righteous sometimes but I try to pray like the Publican and not the Pharisee.
You speak of Apostolic succession yet have shown no evidence as to how your church resembles the early church. Being a Continuationist, I'd like to hear how the Orthodox Church resembles the early Church more than it does Catholicism because, from a Protestant perspective, there's very little which separates the Orthodox from certain forms of Catholicism. By no means am I trying to insult the Orthodox Church however, again from a Protestant perspective, it looks like a bunch of religiosity and traditionalism with very little spiritual impact and evangelism. By no means do I mean to be offensive if this post appears coarse, it is not my intention.
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No Scott. I can not interpret on my own without help. First from God, WHO IS IN ME, And
yes God gives me teachers. BUT I DO NOT FOLLOW THEM BLINDLY. I listen, then test what
they say. If what they say does not add up. I do not believe what they say.
When I stand in front of God. I am not going to say thank you God for giving me this
church to save me. I am going to say thank You god for showing me truth, and saving me.
It was inspired by God. If I thought it was just written by men. I probably would not even
bother reading it. Because all men make mistakes. How could something written by men
be trusted?
Yeah I am, we all should be/. Eternity is to long to place yours in the hands of any man!,
but Christ I have men I trust. because I have studied what they say, and for the most part
we agree. But I would stil test anything they say, as I am commanded to do by God. I
have had men lead me astray before.
Me?? Ha Ha Ha,, Anyone who puts their eternity in my hands would be a fool. I can show
them the way, but I can't save them. Only God can. God gave no man the ability to
pronounce guilt on innocence on any man as far as eternity goes.
Well your wrong, because orthodoxy is more concerned with religious work, and tradition
and ceremony than it is with having a personal relationship with God. God don't want
man's religion. He wants son's and daughters. and to have a relationship with them. And
who are so excited about what God can do for others they show them, and so wanting to
know about god, they study all they can about him, so is is not just a name, but a person.
A church who teaches a false gospel of works is not gods church. End of story. It is not just
the orthodoxy, it is catholosism, and any so called protestasnt church which teaches the
only access to God, anbd means of forgivenes is based on our merit. and not Gods grace
(which CAN NEVER BE EARNED OR WORKED FOR>
Um. Scott. What separates churches is the gospel they teach, if they teach the correct
gospel. They are a true church, even if they may disagree on other aspects of gods word.
Those who do not teach this f=gospel are false churches.
I am not worried about one word or one doctrine which separates churches. who cares??
You have bought into the romaqn lie and excuses.. You just used the eastern lies.
Faith alone comes from Luther, not from the Bible. There is no such thing as a false gospel of works.
(Except for Pelagianism, and the Orthodox Church is neither Pelagian, nor semi-Pelagian).
Not faith alone. Not works alone. Faith working through love (Galatians 5:6; 1 Cor. 13:13). Love is
greater than faith alone. I am sorry you don't believe 1 Cor. 13:13 and you don't believe Gal. 5:6 and
you don't believe James 2:24, and you do believe that Romans 3:28 means "faith alone", just as Luther
told you you must believe, because "Luther says so".
Works do not merit anything. Who told you anyone thinks they do? Titus 3:5 shows works don't merit
God's mercy. You've been listening too much to the Protestant Reformation and too little to the Bible.
And, learn to type correctly. There's no such thing as "gods church". That sounds like polytheism. It's
"God's Church". There's no such thing as "gods word" either. That's polytheism. It's "God's Word".
You really are quite following emotion rather than reason. And failing to use proper English! God bless
you!
Quakers also believe in a personal relationship with God, but believe Christ didn't mean what He said
in Matthew 28:19-20. So baptism is superfluous, not a commandment of Christ.
You really don't understand Orthodoxy. Fr. Anthony M. Coniaris also speaks about the necessity of
having a personal relationship with God. All Christians will have one. But it is not ONLY personal, only
all on one's own, alone with God. It also comes with a Body, the Church (Ephesians 4). But you deny
the historical validity and meaning of Ephesians 4!
C
Haven't you bought into the Lutheran lie that "It is so because Herr Doctor, Martin Luther, say it is so"?
Faith alone comes from Luther, not from the Bible. There is no such thing as a false gospel of works.
(Except for Pelagianism, and the Orthodox Church is neither Pelagian, nor semi-Pelagian).
Not faith alone. Not works alone. Faith working through love (Galatians 5:6; 1 Cor. 13:13). Love is
greater than faith alone. I am sorry you don't believe 1 Cor. 13:13 and you don't believe Gal. 5:6 and
you don't believe James 2:24, and you do believe that Romans 3:28 means "faith alone", just as Luther
told you you must believe, because "Luther says so".
Works do not merit anything. Who told you anyone thinks they do? Titus 3:5 shows works don't merit
God's mercy. You've been listening too much to the Protestant Reformation and too little to the Bible.
And, learn to type correctly. There's no such thing as "gods church". That sounds like polytheism. It's
"God's Church". There's no such thing as "gods word" either. That's polytheism. It's "God's Word".
You really are quite following emotion rather than reason. And failing to use proper English! God bless
you!
Quakers also believe in a personal relationship with God, but believe Christ didn't mean what He said
in Matthew 28:19-20. So baptism is superfluous, not a commandment of Christ.
You really don't understand Orthodoxy. Fr. Anthony M. Coniaris also speaks about the necessity of
having a personal relationship with God. All Christians will have one. But it is not ONLY personal, only
all on one's own, alone with God. It also comes with a Body, the Church (Ephesians 4). But you deny
the historical validity and meaning of Ephesians 4!
Faith alone comes from Luther, not from the Bible. There is no such thing as a false gospel of works.
(Except for Pelagianism, and the Orthodox Church is neither Pelagian, nor semi-Pelagian).
Not faith alone. Not works alone. Faith working through love (Galatians 5:6; 1 Cor. 13:13). Love is
greater than faith alone. I am sorry you don't believe 1 Cor. 13:13 and you don't believe Gal. 5:6 and
you don't believe James 2:24, and you do believe that Romans 3:28 means "faith alone", just as Luther
told you you must believe, because "Luther says so".
Works do not merit anything. Who told you anyone thinks they do? Titus 3:5 shows works don't merit
God's mercy. You've been listening too much to the Protestant Reformation and too little to the Bible.
And, learn to type correctly. There's no such thing as "gods church". That sounds like polytheism. It's
"God's Church". There's no such thing as "gods word" either. That's polytheism. It's "God's Word".
You really are quite following emotion rather than reason. And failing to use proper English! God bless
you!
Quakers also believe in a personal relationship with God, but believe Christ didn't mean what He said
in Matthew 28:19-20. So baptism is superfluous, not a commandment of Christ.
You really don't understand Orthodoxy. Fr. Anthony M. Coniaris also speaks about the necessity of
having a personal relationship with God. All Christians will have one. But it is not ONLY personal, only
all on one's own, alone with God. It also comes with a Body, the Church (Ephesians 4). But you deny
the historical validity and meaning of Ephesians 4!
You and I actually agree on many things and while I know very little about Orthodoxy, I do know a thing or two about the Quakers. There were several things that the bible spoke of that the Quakers did not embrace, such as tithing, water baptism and partaking of communion, because at that time it was being taught that a person could be saved by partaking in those acts instead of through the atonement of Christ which can only be established through genuine humility and heart felt repentance concerning their need for a Saviour.
Please understand, George Fox and the Quakers were making a statement that salvation is found through Christ and not the works of men. The Quakers believed heavily in walking upright through obedience to Scripture. By no means what so ever, did Fox advocate anything taught by Luther or Calvin. In fact, Fox considered both to be licentious.
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Crossfire;609100 said:
You speak of Apostolic succession yet have shown no evidence as to how your church resembles the early church. Being a Continuationist, I'd like to hear how the Orthodox Church resembles the early Church more than it does Catholicism because, from a Protestant perspective, there's very little which separates the Orthodox from certain forms of Catholicism. By no means am I trying to insult the Orthodox Church however, again from a Protestant perspective, it looks like a bunch of religiosity and traditionalism with very little spiritual impact and evangelism. By no means do I mean to be offensive if this post appears coarse, it is not my intention.
Catholicism, Lutheranism, Presbyterianism (Calvinism), Anglicanism, Methodism, etc. all say "who proceeds from the Father" AND THE SON, in agreement with no Scripture of no Christ. Not trying to insult anyone, but from an Orthodox perspective, Protestantism in every form looks like a "tradition of men", as the Reformers were all men who insisted on trying to Reform the Church of Rome to make the Church of Antichrist into a Church of Christ. Well, if you try to Reform the Big Antichrist Church, what you end up with is little more than a little antichrist church.
The Reformers all said the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist, didn't they? Why try to reform his doctrines? Don't the doctrines of the Bible all come from the Apostles and their bishops, not from reading the Bible according to one's own private opinions?
Not to be offensive, but Protestantism all depends upon subjective rationalism, antinomian lawless "grace alone" "no works" theology, "faith alone" heresy.
Why is faith alone so, according to Luther? Not because the Bible says so. But because LUTHER says so. When Luther was asked why he added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28 (which isn't in the Greek NT), Luther said,
"IT IS SO. AND I WILL HAVE IT SO. AND MY OWN WILL IS REASON ENOUGH. IT IS SO BECAUSE I, HERR DOCTOR MARTIN LUTHER, SAY THAT IT IS SO!".
I sinned, too. Like Luther.
Luther taught, "Be a sinner, and sin boldly".
One time, I said, "Sin now. Pay later."
I lived what I said. I sinned a lot. I will have to take responsibility for my past life of sin.
I pray that God shall have mercy on me and forgive me for the sins I have confessed to Him and repented of them all.
God have mercy on us.
How does Orthodoxy resemble the early Church? Most of the Orthodox Churches today do not use musical instruments. Except for World Orthodoxy, which does not follow Orthodox tradition very faithfully. Unfortunately, many churches are Westernized, trying to "fit in" and "assimilate" here in America. But the majority of Orthodoxy, and true Orthodoxy, is like the NT: Chanting the words of the Bible and the hymns of the Church. No musical instruments, just like in NT days.
Also, every Orthodox Church has a bishop who comes from the laying on of hands of one of the 12 apostles of Christ. And confesses the faith of St. Peter in CHRIST in Matthew 16.
Crossfire;609108 said:
You and I actually agree on many things and while I know very little about Orthodoxy, I do know a thing or two about the Quakers. There were several things that the bible spoke of that the Quakers did not embrace, such as tithing, water baptism and partaking of communion, because at that time it was being taught that a person could be saved by partaking in those acts instead of through the atonement of Christ which can only be established through genuine humility and heart felt repentance concerning their need for a Saviour.
Please understand, George Fox and the Quakers were making a statement that salvation is found through Christ and not the works of men. The Quakers believed heavily in walking upright through obedience to Scripture. By no means what so ever, did Fox advocate anything taught by Luther or Calvin. In fact, Fox considered both to be licentious.
According to the Epistle of St. Peter, and Mark chapter 16, baptism saves.
C
Crossfire;609108 said:
According to the Epistle of St. Peter, and Mark chapter 16, baptism saves.
In the name of who? A church which also taught that sin was forgiven through the act of communion? You really have to understand what was going on at that time. Baptism is supposed to be an expression of faith in Christ just as obedience to scripture or taking communion is an expression (evidence) of faith. But make no mistake, without Christ baptism, communion and tithing in and of themselves mean nothing. They can not save by themselves. That was the point the Quakers were trying to make.
I suggest you take the time to actually read George Fox and the works of the early Quakers (not the mess that Quakerism has become now) before you judge them. I think you will find that there are many false representations and impressions concerning them. Fox and the Quakers stood against the false religious traditions of the Roman Catholic Church and the licentiousness of the Lutherans and Calvinists going on in that era. As far as I know Fox never took a stance against Eastern Orthodoxy.
I am not a Quaker but, as a Continuationist, there is much about them that I do admire and relate.
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In the name of who? A church which also taught that sin was forgiven through the act of communion? You really have to understand what was going on at that time. Baptism is supposed to be an expression of faith in Christ just as obedience to scripture or taking communion is an expression (evidence) of faith. But make no mistake, without Christ baptism, communion and tithing in and of themselves mean nothing. They can not save by themselves. That was the point the Quakers were trying to make.
I suggest you take the time to actually read George Fox and the works of the early Quakers (not the mess that Quakerism has become now) before you judge them. I think you will find that there are many false representations and impressions concerning them. Fox and the Quakers stood against the false religious traditions of the Roman Catholic Church and the licentiousness of the Lutherans and Calvinists going on in that era. As far as I know Fox never took a stance against Eastern Orthodoxy.
I am not a Quaker but, as a Continuationist, there is much about them that I do admire and relate.
Fox was just another incorrect teacher. Don't need to study history much to know that.
I was just another incorrect believer. Until I read "Becoming Orthodox" by Fr. Peter E. Gillquist.
C
Fox was just another incorrect teacher. Don't need to study history much to know that.
I was just another incorrect believer. Until I read "Becoming Orthodox" by Fr. Peter E. Gillquist.
I was just another incorrect believer. Until I read "Becoming Orthodox" by Fr. Peter E. Gillquist.
S
You speak of Apostolic succession yet have shown no evidence as to how your church resembles the early church. Being a Continuationist, I'd like to hear how the Orthodox Church resembles the early Church more than it does Catholicism because, from a Protestant perspective, there's very little which separates the Orthodox from certain forms of Catholicism. By no means am I trying to insult the Orthodox Church however, again from a Protestant perspective, it looks like a bunch of religiosity and traditionalism with very little spiritual impact and evangelism. By no means do I mean to be offensive if this post appears coarse, it is not my intention.
The proof that I can give to show how Eastern Orthodoxy resembles the Early Church is in the ancient documents of the successors of the Apostles such as Bishop Clement of Rome who lived in the 1st and 2nd century.
Here is a quote from him talking about the succession of the Faith,
"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" First Epistle of Clement Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 A.D. 80
And St Iranaus had this to say:
"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:3:1 A.D. 189
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apostolic_succession#The_Testimony_Of_The_Early_Church
If you would look at the documents of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers, which was written from the 1st to 4th Century, you would see how the early Church operated.