God and Time

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PaulThomson

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#301
Oct 29, 2023
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#301
maxwel said:
Your Argument:
1.) You originally said TIME was an ATTRIBUTE of God.
2.) You then referred to scripture which verified God is eternal, thus making "eternality" a divine attribute.

The Problem:
1. "Time" and "Eternal" are different words, that mean very different things.
2. Although "eternality" is an attribute of God, that does not mean "time" is an attribute of God.


God Bless.

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Time and eternality are not mutually exclusive. Eternality can mean endless time. If you are using eternality to mean atemporality, you should use that definition consistently, and not equivocate between two meanings, depending on the argument you are opposing. So, which definition are you sticking with. Beginningless and endless duration; or without duration?
 
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PaulThomson

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#302
Oct 29, 2023
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#302
Pilgrimshope said:
what time is it ? What time was that ? What time will you be here ? I have plenty of time left . I’m running out of time. Times up. Our Time has only just begun

It’s never the same time only once is it now

now is the reality time is the illusion it hearkens back and calls from ahead but now is real . It always is moving notice you cannot stop even a second of time from passing ? It’s because the universe is always moving time is that movement

If it ceases so does the relevance for any concept of time
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So, in your mind is there no possibility of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit having a conversation, with thoughts and responses to thoughts, before and after, unless They first create a world in which to have the conversation?
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#303
Sep 23, 2014
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#303
Someone mentioned they leaned toward a "spherical model", and I assume this is speaking of a model of time. At first I was like, "huh?" but such as the nature of things that make me go 'huh?', it stays with me to try and understand it. So, whoever said this, and forgive my recall as it fails me whether it was the Chaps or PThomson but, do you consider God at the center of this "sphere of time"?
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#304
Oct 29, 2023
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#304
maxwel said:
If you start with a definition of time, then we can examine that, and see if it qualifies as a divine attribute.

Prior to a proper definition, you're sort of making claims about nothing... some nebulous thing that isn't identified.


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Time is the sequence found in all events everywhere, such that there are events that are truly prior to other events. If there was ever an event A prior to some specific event B, then both those events, A and B, must take time to occur, and the environment/medium within which they occur must include the attribute of temporality.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#305
Sep 2, 2020
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#305
PaulThomson said:
So, in your mind is there no possibility of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit having a conversation, with thoughts and responses to thoughts, before and after, unless They first create a world in which to have the conversation?
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How did we go from the operation of time and relation to God and man to the trinity concept ?
 
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PaulThomson

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#306
Oct 29, 2023
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#306
Mem said:
Someone mentioned they leaned toward a "spherical model", and I assume this is speaking of a model of time. At first I was like, "huh?" but such as the nature of things that make me go 'huh?', it stays with me to try and understand it. So, whoever said this, and forgive my recall as it fails me whether it was the Chaps or PThomson but, do you consider God at the center of this "sphere of time"?
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It was a spherical model of space time continua (STC). I consider God to exist both immanently within the STC He creates and beyond the boundaries of those STC.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#307
Sep 2, 2020
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#307
PaulThomson said:
Time is the sequence found in all events everywhere, such that there are events that are truly prior to other events. If there was ever an event A prior to some specific event B, then both those events, A and B, must take time to occur, and the environment/medium within which they occur must include the attribute of temporality.
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If the earth is not revolving around the sun tell me what time is it ? Or what law is creating time ? We’re talking about before this began to happen
 
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PaulThomson

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#308
Oct 29, 2023
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#308
Eli1 said:
This may be a bit off-topic but i think it's also related because it's related to :



and scientifically this is supported by the law of information that is in an enclosed system (the universe) which is never lost.
Which means that everything in this universe is recorded and nothing is lost and God is aware of it.
If we had the technology to beat the speed of light, we could go at a point in space about 80 light-years away and point a telescope back to earth and watch WW2 in action.
You could watch your grandfather still alive. You could even watch Jesus Himself 2000 years ago.
So, nothing is lost and the sense of Time, if we're able to do this becomes sort of meaningless because all your relatives and loved ones are over a Time-Hill and they're never gone, just away from touch .. until the second coming.
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I doubt that the light illuminating me typing this post will make it 80 light years distant such that you would see me doing anything.
 
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PaulThomson

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#309
Oct 29, 2023
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Cameron143 said:
The fallacy in His argument is that only God is self-existing...I am that I am. Nothing exists apart from God...in Him all things have their being. This is obviously true of time as well. It too has a beginning with God. But I do find the topic fascinating.
If we keep going, we will end up considering whether God created ex nihilo or ex Deo.
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The necessary corollary of God being timeless and observing all of history in a single now, is that everything in all of history exists eternally along with God in that same single now.
 
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PaulThomson

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#310
Oct 29, 2023
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#310
Pilgrimshope said:
If the earth is not revolving around the sun tell me what time is it ? Or what law is creating time ? We’re talking about before this began to happen
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Star-date 14.784.9534. Star Trek rules!
I don't believe time is being created.
If, before this began to happen, The Son said/thought something to the Father and the Father responded to the Son, which divine Person spoke/thought first?
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#311
Sep 2, 2020
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#311
PaulThomson said:
Star-date 14.784.9534. Star Trek rules!
I don't believe time is being created.
If, before this began to happen, The Son said/thought something to the Father and the Father responded to the Son, which divine Person spoke/thought first?
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so what was causing time before the thing that creates our knowledge of time the whole day and night process the first day 😁 of the “ time line “

Star Trek discussion forum would be fun I’m sure spok out!
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#312
PaulThomson said:
The necessary corollary of God being timeless and observing all of history in a single now, is that everything in all of history exists eternally along with God in that same single now.
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I never agreed to a single now. I'm ok with the fact that everything about God hasn't been revealed or is beyond finding out.
 
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PaulThomson

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#313
Oct 29, 2023
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#313
Cameron143 said:
I never agreed to a single now. I'm ok with the fact that everything about God hasn't been revealed or is beyond finding out.
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Great, so we agree that considering God as temporal, that is having duration, albeit infinite duration, is not heresy. Excellent!
 
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PaulThomson

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#314
Oct 29, 2023
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#314
Pilgrimshope said:
so what was causing time before the thing that creates our knowledge of time the whole day and night process the first day 😁 of the “ time line “

Star Trek discussion forum would be fun I’m sure spok out!
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God thinking sequential thoughts means that temporality is an attribute of the medium within which those thoughts happen. Hence, temporality, like agapay love, are attributes of God, and as such temporality is uncreated/uncaused.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#315
PaulThomson said:
Great, so we agree that considering God as temporal, that is having duration, albeit infinite duration, is not heresy. Excellent!
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Wrong again. If time was created and God has always existed, He's not temporal. By itself, I don't find your view as heretical, just fanciful.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#316
Sep 2, 2020
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#316
PaulThomson said:
God thinking sequential thoughts means that temporality is an attribute of the medium within which those thoughts happen. Hence, temporality, like agapay love, are attributes of God, and as such temporality is uncreated/uncaused.
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Ok , but what does this have to do with "time " ? I'm not making a connection to the term and meaning of " time " seems your saying God is eternal lol I agree
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#319
Sep 2, 2020
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#319
Cameron143 said:
I never agreed to a single now. I'm ok with the fact that everything about God hasn't been revealed or is beyond finding out.
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" For Now we know in part and speak in part as a poor reflection in a puddle , then we shall know fully as we are now fully known by him "

Saul of Tarsus after his conversion
 
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