Speculating About God

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
1,755
113
#1
I notice a fairly widespread problem among Christians and others to authoritatively speak out their assumptions and speculations about God as if they were fact.

I see people making declarations about what God is like, what God has planned, what God feels, what God thinks, what God has done, etc. based on their theological perspective. If I consider those on the issue of determinism, for example Calvinists on the one hand and Arminians on the other--- some Calvinists will say that whatever happens is God's will. But if I read scripture, Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonika that it was God's will that they abstain from fornication. So if someone fornicates, is that God's will? Do we have the authority to declare something "God's will" just because it happened. If the Bible talks about foreknowledge and predestination in regard to the saints, how does that justify saying that God planned all things, which would include the sacrifices of the children to Baal mentioned in

Jeremiah 32:35
“And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”

(Bold emphasis mine.)

I have encountered someone who insisted that God did not have emotions-- something about 'emotions' containing 'motion' which implies change. I consider that to be a kind of etymological fallacy. The Bible speaks of God's wrath and of the LORD rejoicing.

It seems to me some Calvinists tend to be very bold in their declarations based on their systematic theology moreso than scripture. Jeremiah 32:35 gets explained away as anthropomorphic language. The systematic theology takes precedence over exegesis for some people. If there is scripture that doesn't align with your theory, exercise care what you say about the person of the Almighty.

On the opposite side of the spectrum from heavy determinism, I have read and heard assertions about why God did certain things, or what He is like, or even what God "can't" do. I read once where someone asserted that God cannot use you if you are living in the past? I see no Biblical basis for such an assertion, and it doesn't align with what I know of some people who seem to be living in the past, but still operate in spiritual gifts. There are people who say the reason God let such and such to happen to you was because He wanted you to learn such and such.

We can say things about God's nature, His purposes, and His intentions ___if He has revealed it. Otherwise, we had better keep our mouths shut. If someone says God wants this, God does that, God allowed this for that reason, we can press them on it to show us scripture, or to tell us whether they are prophesying this as revelation from God.

Why is this a big deal? Why should we care if we go spouting off all kinds of stupid theories about the Almightly as if they were fact? Why should we be careful about drawing intelligent-sounding, logical-sounding conclusions based on our systematic theology... that we cannot back up with specific scripture... about the person of the Almighty.

Consider this passage:
Job 42
7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

(Bold emphasis mine).

In I Corinthians 15, Paul said if Christ had not risen from the dead, that 'we' would be false witnesses of God for saying that He raised up Christ from the dead, but Christ has been raised from the dead.

So let us be careful not to be false witnesses of God with our speculation. Let us not displease Him by speaking words about Him that are fault. Let our speech about God fall within the boundaries of what He has revealed about Himself.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,762
5,141
113
#2
“I see people making declarations about what God is like, what God has planned, what God feels, what God thinks, what God has done, etc.”

the Bible is Gods declaration of what he wants man to know and believe we can learn and believe the Bible for ourselves at that point we want to share what we learned from the Bible with others not trying to teach them ourselves but leading them to the lord who saved us and can save them if they accept his gospel

then They can begin the process of being born in him and starting to grow in faith by hearing and believing the gospel.

but honestly brother you’re in a Bible discussion forum this means your absolutely going to hear people ideas and thoughts out what God has said in the Bible nd they are probably going to believe it’s true when discussing d offering you thier thoughts

if you don’t want to hear peoples thinking and ideas d experiences and beliefs of the Bible and what God said is a biblical discussion forum the right place for you ?

I think sometimes we mistake this place for seminary or a school where everyone that speaks knows exactly the same things everyone else knows and everyone has to be correct or they can’t say anything

but instead it’s a place where different ideas about the Bible and what God has said can come together and work out thier doffeences nd come closer together even if it happens from clashing at first d then later things sink in better for each person

this is a place to discuss and consider ideas reject those that don’t make sense and embrace those that do what I mean is just that this place seems designed to discuss ideas and consider and learn bout what the Bible says in truth

the thing is when we’re little we are taught “ what the Bible says “ by someone attend certain denominations that teach certain interpretations of scripture so when we’re grown we tend to have certain bias towards certain subjects being taught early on that particular interpretation

but as we grow up d start considering scripture ourselves some of north ode things we were taught early might not be true when we start studying the scripture for ourselves we may learn some thkngs we didn’t used to think we’re true when considering other peoples understanding of scriptire

this is going to produce conflicting ideas and interpretations but we shouldn’t think this place is an authorized seminary or anything but rather an arena where all
Of us or at least most can benefit from some peoples posts and then others are going to seem wrong To us which we can just avoid really knowing this isn’t a seminary but just a discussion forum
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
1,755
113
#3
“I see people making declarations about what God is like, what God has planned, what God feels, what God thinks, what God has done, etc.”

the Bible is Gods declaration of what he wants man to know and believe we can learn and believe the Bible for ourselves at that point we want to share what we learned from the Bible with others not trying to teach them ourselves but leading them to the lord who saved us and can save them if they accept his gospel

then They can begin the process of being born in him and starting to grow in faith by hearing and believing the gospel.

but honestly brother you’re in a Bible discussion forum this means your absolutely going to hear people ideas and thoughts out what God has said in the Bible nd they are probably going to believe it’s true when discussing d offering you thier thoughts

if you don’t want to hear peoples thinking and ideas d experiences and beliefs of the Bible and what God said is a biblical discussion forum the right place for you ?

What better place is there to bring up the issue of not speaking wrongly about the Almighty? He knows what we speak and what we write about Him, and we should seek to please Him.

If posters on the forum were careful to only speak about the LORD the things that He has revealed, that would make for much better conversation. Asking questions is one thing, but making proclamations about God that are not true and bearing false witness against Him is another.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,701
113
#4
Why is this a big deal? Why should we care if we go spouting off all kinds of stupid theories about the Almightly as if they were fact?
Because the day is coming when we shall stand before Him and answer for all our foolish blubbering.

What better place is there to bring up the issue of not speaking wrongly about the Almighty?
Amen. Good posts.

We must stay close to Scripture and try to not go out on limbs.
 

Mofastus

Active member
May 23, 2019
400
225
43
#5
I notice a fairly widespread problem among Christians and others to authoritatively speak out their assumptions and speculations about God as if they were fact.

I see people making declarations about what God is like, what God has planned, what God feels, what God thinks, what God has done, etc. based on their theological perspective. If I consider those on the issue of determinism, for example Calvinists on the one hand and Arminians on the other--- some Calvinists will say that whatever happens is God's will. But if I read scripture, Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonika that it was God's will that they abstain from fornication. So if someone fornicates, is that God's will? Do we have the authority to declare something "God's will" just because it happened. If the Bible talks about foreknowledge and predestination in regard to the saints, how does that justify saying that God planned all things, which would include the sacrifices of the children to Baal mentioned in

Jeremiah 32:35
“And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”

(Bold emphasis mine.)

I have encountered someone who insisted that God did not have emotions-- something about 'emotions' containing 'motion' which implies change. I consider that to be a kind of etymological fallacy. The Bible speaks of God's wrath and of the LORD rejoicing.

It seems to me some Calvinists tend to be very bold in their declarations based on their systematic theology moreso than scripture. Jeremiah 32:35 gets explained away as anthropomorphic language. The systematic theology takes precedence over exegesis for some people. If there is scripture that doesn't align with your theory, exercise care what you say about the person of the Almighty.

On the opposite side of the spectrum from heavy determinism, I have read and heard assertions about why God did certain things, or what He is like, or even what God "can't" do. I read once where someone asserted that God cannot use you if you are living in the past? I see no Biblical basis for such an assertion, and it doesn't align with what I know of some people who seem to be living in the past, but still operate in spiritual gifts. There are people who say the reason God let such and such to happen to you was because He wanted you to learn such and such.

We can say things about God's nature, His purposes, and His intentions ___if He has revealed it. Otherwise, we had better keep our mouths shut. If someone says God wants this, God does that, God allowed this for that reason, we can press them on it to show us scripture, or to tell us whether they are prophesying this as revelation from God.

Why is this a big deal? Why should we care if we go spouting off all kinds of stupid theories about the Almightly as if they were fact? Why should we be careful about drawing intelligent-sounding, logical-sounding conclusions based on our systematic theology... that we cannot back up with specific scripture... about the person of the Almighty.

Consider this passage:
Job 42
7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

(Bold emphasis mine).

In I Corinthians 15, Paul said if Christ had not risen from the dead, that 'we' would be false witnesses of God for saying that He raised up Christ from the dead, but Christ has been raised from the dead.

So let us be careful not to be false witnesses of God with our speculation. Let us not displease Him by speaking words about Him that are fault. Let our speech about God fall within the boundaries of what He has revealed about Himself.
I guess it might be hard for some to accept that these things of men are not new to God and that it pleased God that it would and always has happened from the beginning until today, His prophets noted these things and cried out to Him and were comforted. We have been given a Comforter as well, if we would but seek God for ourselves, as it has been given that we do so and come to know Him, the greatness of His love, His peace freely given to all that would find Him. God's mercy is extended to all as we too are to walk in His mercy and not to forsake our own mercy for those in their own blindness of not knowing Him in the hope of them finding Him upon His approval alone, just as it was even for ourselves.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#6
I read once where someone asserted that God cannot use you if you are living in the past? I see no Biblical basis for such an assertion, and it doesn't align with what I know of some people who seem to be living in the past, but still operate in spiritual gifts. There are people who say the reason God let such and such to happen to you was because He wanted you to learn such and such.
I find Charles Spurgeons sermons real helpful. Most of my life I was antagonistic to all religion. Not sure about peripheral issues. Spurgeons' sermons focus on the sacrifice Jesus made and that is what I consider central and understand entire Bible is about God can and does and man rebels and yet God provides continually. KISS Keep It Strictly Scriptural.

Nice idea but people like myself never heard any Bible till later in life. Some people don't realize now with population on earth at 8 billion that it is possible the majority of earth's population never heard any Bible. How many of those 8 billion may find this chat and find it appealing enough to investigate is a guess.

So here is a thing that happened to me and I recently came across ))))Psalm 73:2 But as for me, my feet were almost gone; my steps had well nigh slipped.(((((....

and I see a connection to a time when I was on a relatively steep slope and my feet were slipping as I was trying to get back up on level while grasping any little growth I could and when I finally got to a point to look down it looked to be possibly a 50ft drop and I was a little shaken. I was probably about 14 at the time and the greater part of my life preceding this and till about age 50 seemed to be God having to help me out with some few other incidents. Not that I was going to acknowledge God's help until about 5 yrs ago. So God let me see that He indeed kept my feet from slipping all my life. Maybe that isn't the way everyone understands that verse but it is the way I understand it. The other peripherals you mention are still beyond me at this time. Spurgeons sermons possibly hit on some of what you mention but still a bit fuzzy with me.
 
Jul 14, 2019
214
122
43
#7
To say God is doing something or wants something usually isn't the Lord. People say "I feel like the Lord is saying" are following their own heart. It's highly overused. Especially people who want to seem more spiritual. We can toss out most of the bones. They just feel something.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
1,755
113
#8
To say God is doing something or wants something usually isn't the Lord. People say "I feel like the Lord is saying" are following their own heart. It's highly overused. Especially people who want to seem more spiritual. We can toss out most of the bones. They just feel something.
The Bible says,
Quench not the Spirit.
Despise not prophesyings.
Prove all things.
Hold fast to that which is good.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#9
Our God is unique in all ways. He knows the end from the beginning of all things.
He alone holds all things together. There is no one or anything that is like our God.
His ways are not our ways for they are higher .

Ok lets start here??
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,598
13,017
113
#10
I see people making declarations about what God is like, what God has planned, what God feels, what God thinks, what God has done, etc. based on their theological perspective.
No. Most genuine Christians go by what is revealed in the Bible about God. And let's not forget that Christ is also God, and He has revealed to us the Father, and the Father has spoken to us through His Son.

There is much that can be known about God through His Word. That is precisely why He has given us His Word. Therefore Christians to do not have to speculate about God at all. God has CONDESCENDED to reveal Himself to mankind, particularly in and through the Lord Jesus Christ. It was God who shed His blood on the cross for the remission of our sins.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
1,755
113
#11
No. Most genuine Christians go by what is revealed in the Bible about God. And let's not forget that Christ is also God, and He has revealed to us the Father, and the Father has spoken to us through His Son.

There is much that can be known about God through His Word. That is precisely why He has given us His Word. Therefore Christians to do not have to speculate about God at all. God has CONDESCENDED to reveal Himself to mankind, particularly in and through the Lord Jesus Christ. It was God who shed His blood on the cross for the remission of our sins.
But some do. Often it is making declarations about what God did, wants, did not do, etc. based on their theological perspective or systematic theology, rather than what God has actually revealed.
 

Iconoclast

Senior Member
May 27, 2017
749
186
43
#12
I notice a fairly widespread problem among Christians and others to authoritatively speak out their assumptions and speculations about God as if they were fact.

I see people making declarations about what God is like, what God has planned, what God feels, what God thinks, what God has done, etc. based on their theological perspective. If I consider those on the issue of determinism, for example Calvinists on the one hand and Arminians on the other--- some Calvinists will say that whatever happens is God's will. But if I read scripture, Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonika that it was God's will that they abstain from fornication. So if someone fornicates, is that God's will? Do we have the authority to declare something "God's will" just because it happened. If the Bible talks about foreknowledge and predestination in regard to the saints, how does that justify saying that God planned all things, which would include the sacrifices of the children to Baal mentioned in

Jeremiah 32:35
“And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”

(Bold emphasis mine.)

I have encountered someone who insisted that God did not have emotions-- something about 'emotions' containing 'motion' which implies change. I consider that to be a kind of etymological fallacy. The Bible speaks of God's wrath and of the LORD rejoicing.

It seems to me some Calvinists tend to be very bold in their declarations based on their systematic theology moreso than scripture. Jeremiah 32:35 gets explained away as anthropomorphic language. The systematic theology takes precedence over exegesis for some people. If there is scripture that doesn't align with your theory, exercise care what you say about the person of the Almighty.

On the opposite side of the spectrum from heavy determinism, I have read and heard assertions about why God did certain things, or what He is like, or even what God "can't" do. I read once where someone asserted that God cannot use you if you are living in the past? I see no Biblical basis for such an assertion, and it doesn't align with what I know of some people who seem to be living in the past, but still operate in spiritual gifts. There are people who say the reason God let such and such to happen to you was because He wanted you to learn such and such.

We can say things about God's nature, His purposes, and His intentions ___if He has revealed it. Otherwise, we had better keep our mouths shut. If someone says God wants this, God does that, God allowed this for that reason, we can press them on it to show us scripture, or to tell us whether they are prophesying this as revelation from God.

Why is this a big deal? Why should we care if we go spouting off all kinds of stupid theories about the Almightly as if they were fact? Why should we be careful about drawing intelligent-sounding, logical-sounding conclusions based on our systematic theology... that we cannot back up with specific scripture... about the person of the Almighty.

Consider this passage:
Job 42
7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

(Bold emphasis mine).

In I Corinthians 15, Paul said if Christ had not risen from the dead, that 'we' would be false witnesses of God for saying that He raised up Christ from the dead, but Christ has been raised from the dead.

So let us be careful not to be false witnesses of God with our speculation. Let us not displease Him by speaking words about Him that are fault. Let our speech about God fall within the boundaries of what He has revealed about Himself.
Stop listening to Leighton Flowers, you will be okay.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,397
1,204
113
#13
Because the day is coming when we shall stand before Him and answer for all our foolish blubbering.

Just a thought when I read your statement;

Does God judge us when he chastens us? Does Psalms 73:5 & Heg 12:7 indicate that God does not judge the wicked until the last day
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,397
1,204
113
#14
I find Charles Spurgeons sermons real helpful. Most of my life I was antagonistic to all religion. Not sure about peripheral issues. Spurgeons' sermons focus on the sacrifice Jesus made and that is what I consider central and understand entire Bible is about God can and does and man rebels and yet God provides continually. KISS Keep It Strictly Scriptural.

Nice idea but people like myself never heard any Bible till later in life. Some people don't realize now with population on earth at 8 billion that it is possible the majority of earth's population never heard any Bible. How many of those 8 billion may find this chat and find it appealing enough to investigate is a guess.

So here is a thing that happened to me and I recently came across ))))Psalm 73:2 But as for me, my feet were almost gone; my steps had well nigh slipped.(((((....

and I see a connection to a time when I was on a relatively steep slope and my feet were slipping as I was trying to get back up on level while grasping any little growth I could and when I finally got to a point to look down it looked to be possibly a 50ft drop and I was a little shaken. I was probably about 14 at the time and the greater part of my life preceding this and till about age 50 seemed to be God having to help me out with some few other incidents. Not that I was going to acknowledge God's help until about 5 yrs ago. So God let me see that He indeed kept my feet from slipping all my life. Maybe that isn't the way everyone understands that verse but it is the way I understand it. The other peripherals you mention are still beyond me at this time. Spurgeons sermons possibly hit on some of what you mention but still a bit fuzzy with me.

I think that David's foot almost slipped, because he was envious of the wicked, that they prospered in their life and were not chastened by God.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,701
113
#16
Just a thought when I read your statement;

Does God judge us when he chastens us? Does Psalms 73:5 & Heg 12:7 indicate that God does not judge the wicked until the last day
The day will come when the believer's works shall be judged...
1 Corinthians 3:
9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#17
But some do. Often it is making declarations about what God did, wants, did not do, etc. based on their theological perspective or systematic theology, rather than what God has actually revealed.
I agree..... they invent their own God. Perhaps its lack of knowledge...or they cant face the truth. Old wives tales play a part in this also. Many find comfort in assumption. Then of course i think were all guilty of theses now and again.
Ive learned over the yrs that God reveals himself differently to each of us depending of our understanding and mentality.
In other words he meets us right where we are, but loves us enough not to leave us there.
God cannot be placed in a box. Our minds cannot comprehend him.
If we say we know him because we know scripture we error ....we only know of him.
 
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persistent

Guest
#18
P

persistent

Guest
#19

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
4,963
2,559
113
London
christianchat.com
#20
What better place is there to bring up the issue of not speaking wrongly about the Almighty? He knows what we speak and what we write about Him, and we should seek to please Him.

If posters on the forum were careful to only speak about the LORD the things that He has revealed, that would make for much better conversation. Asking questions is one thing, but making proclamations about God that are not true and bearing false witness against Him is another.
we do have a FULL manifestation of what God is like, what His will is. Jesus is that full manifestation.

Our individual understanding of God will depend upon our intimacy with Jesus.