“Raised With Him”

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N

NetChaplain

Guest
#1
It has been inspiringly said that “there was never a time when believers were not on the Father’s mind”! In their spirit and soul believers have been “raised with Christ” (Col 3:1). This is the present reality in experiencing part of the “Resurrection,” for we are in the death and resurrection of His Son in our spirit, by which He “has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Pet 1:3).

This part of His resurrection presently provides rebirth and “quickens” (Eph 2:8, 1; Col 2:13) our soul and spirt unto the union of a “new man,” e.g. a new nature which “is created in righteousness and true holiness,” and “is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him” (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10). The final experience of His resurrection will be when we are raised in a new body “when He shall appear” (1 Jhn 3:2), in which our present body which remains (Rom 8:11) will be “changed” (1 Cor 15:51, 52; 1 Thes 4:16, 17).

In our present condition we have a “new man” coexisting with our “old man” within a “corruptible” body. In our final condition we will have the same new man—but in an “incorruptible” body (1 Cor 15:53), and the old man will be eternally absent! No sinful nature, no sin. No sin, no interruption of love and peace with our God the Father and with our Lord the Son—all through Their blessed Spirit (Jhn 14:16; Rev 22:17), via the new nature (Eph 3:16). As this love and peace shall be then, so can it be now—in our conscience—in knowing that there’s no sin that God has not already taken into account which has not already been addressed “by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:13).

We are not walking in the faith of Christ’s expiation for our sinful nature when we do not realize our permanent separation from the “old man.” Though it is in us, we are not in it (Rom 8:9), thus God does not regard us after it! When there is that concept or feeling of guilt, there is not that walk (understanding) of faith in His reparation for us from sin! Nevertheless, be encouraged, for this guiltless condition in the Lord Jesus does not come from our faith but from His Cross-work. The walk of our faith here, and everywhere, is presently for the sake of our conscience concerning “irrevocable” (Rom 11:29) peace with God. It is “through faith,” “by” which the “grace” of salvation is received (Eph 2:8), thus it must be the same concerning all the promises of God if we are to “walk in the Spirit,” not just “live in the Spirit” (Gal 5:25). Though believers live in a guiltless position they cannot walk in it if they do not know it!

We will not be any more redeemed or saved in our spirit and soul in eternity than we are now, but we will be void of the old man, thus the “Resurrection” for which we await has only to do with the new body, and the power of “death” will be no more, for it shall be “cast into the Lake of Fire” (Rev 20:14). Death which came by the commission of sin (Gen 2:17) will be eternally banished by the “remission” of sin (Heb 10:18), by which we are in our spirit “perfected forever” (Heb 10:14)!

Let us contemplate more on what God thinks of us than on what we think of ourselves, in order that we may be most readily prepared to receive, apply and share in the “comfort of the scriptures” (Rom 15:4).

-NC

 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#2
I agree with all the truth about the new man in Christ raised with Christ at His resurrection.

I do differ with you in the fact that the old man who was in Adam is now dead and doesn't exist anymore. The ways of the flesh are now still here and they will be here until we get the new body. The power of sin is in the flesh and it has a voice that speaks to us.

I believe it is important to "know" that the old man has died in order to get a good understanding of our "aliveness to God now" and not be sin-conscious but instead be righteousness-conscious. We are the new man in Christ.

Romans 6:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

There is not still an old man and a new man. There is only one new man in Christ left alive and we are alive unto God now. The flesh is still here with it's the ways of trying to get life from other sources other then from the life of Christ. It is this natural world's way of living which our un-renewed minds till live by. This is where we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Great stuff about the new man in Christ in your OP. When we see that we are righteous in Him - we "awake to righteousness and sin not". The Greek word for "awake" means "to come to one self" "to sober up to be who you really are."
 
N

NetChaplain

Guest
#3
I agree with all the truth about the new man in Christ raised with Christ at His resurrection.

I do differ with you in the fact that the old man who was in Adam is now dead and doesn't exist anymore. The ways of the flesh are now still here and they will be here until we get the new body. The power of sin is in the flesh and it has a voice that speaks to us.

I believe it is important to "know" that the old man has died in order to get a good understanding of our "aliveness to God now" and not be sin-conscious but instead be righteousness-conscious. We are the new man in Christ.
Hi G7's - Thanks for the reply! It's my understanding that the word "flesh" in the NT always refers to the sinful nature (not the physical body), which is the "old man," unless it directly states the physical body.

Secondly, crucifixion of the old man does not mean its death or annihilation, only its restraint (as yet on the Cross) in the believer from it being what controls us, unlike unbelievers which are still controlled by it. God has separated us from this old sinful nature (old man) in this sense, not removed it.

Blessings!
 
N

NetChaplain

Guest
#4

Romans 6:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
"We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin" (NLT).
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#5
Hi G7's - Thanks for the reply! It's my understanding that the word "flesh" in the NT always refers to the sinful nature (not the physical body), which is the "old man," unless it directly states the physical body.

Secondly, crucifixion of the old man does not mean its death or annihilation, only its restraint (as yet on the Cross) in the believer from it being what controls us, unlike unbelievers which are still controlled by it. God has separated us from this old sinful nature (old man) in this sense, not removed it.

Blessings!
Unfortunately the NIV changed the Greek word "sarx" in their translation to call it the sinful nature which is where I believe we get the term "sinful nature" from. The scriptures speak of us partaking of His divine nature now when it discusses "natures". They have siince fixed this error in their newer translations.

I understand what you are saying. I like this subject. Thank you for bringing it up to ponder. The understanding of the inner man in Christ being cut away from the flesh which has the power of sin still in it has helped me immensely to walk in the holiness that is in me in Christ - in the new creation.

Hmmmm...so Paul says that in the same likeness Christ died - we died with Christ - Christ took upon Himself the sin of the world which is the Adamic nature. Does He still have this Adamic nature even though He has died to it like we too have with Him on the cross? I

You said this " Secondly, crucifixion of the old man does not mean its death or annihilation, only its restraint (as yet on the Cross" - which made me think - is Jesus still on the cross today?

I believe the only real person is the one that is in Christ - the new creation which still has this fleshly body as well as the old ways of thinking in our un-renewed brains that is contrary to the life and ways of God. When we die the brain and the body will be left behind and the real person will go to be with the Lord and there are no "last minute" clean up jobs needed as we are complete in Christ now.

This short 6 minute video has helped me to understand "the flesh", as well as some other teachings from a different source.


Anyways - just some thoughts on the subject....bless you brother and I love your OP's.

[video=youtube;wYQxHB-U6NU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYQxHB-U6NU[/video]
 
N

NetChaplain

Guest
#6
Unfortunately the NIV changed the Greek word "sarx" in their translation to call it the sinful nature which is where I believe we get the term "sinful nature" from. The scriptures speak of us partaking of His divine nature now when it discusses "natures". They have siince fixed this error in their newer translations.

"Sarx" means the physical body and nature of a person, the usage is determined by the context, i.e. "we were in the flesh" (Rom 7:5) e.g. were in the sinful nature, but now we "are not in the flesh" (Rom 8:9), e.g. not in the sinful nature, but it is in us.


Does He still have this Adamic nature even though He has died to it like we too have with Him on the cross? I

You said this " Secondly, crucifixion of the old man does not mean its death or annihilation, only its restraint (as yet on the Cross" - which made me think - is Jesus still on the cross today?
Jesus's Cross-work was only for our separation from the guilt and control (Rom 8:1; 6:12, 14) of the sinful nature (old man), He had no sinful nature, thus it's our sinful nature still on the Cross--restrained from forcing us to obey.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#7
I agree with most of your post grace7 but differ with you about this one thing. It's not our flesh that we have trouble with. Our flesh has been circumcised by the Lords death and resurrection. It's our soul that needs to come into union with our Spirit.

Small thing? No...the flesh is our human nature, or our ego. Our soul has to do with how we think about our connection to the Lord and to the world. So it's our soul that is in the process of our salvation.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#8
Sometimes it is the terminology used. There is no place that I have found in scripture where the term "sinful nature" is used. It is a man-made term.

Maybe the term "identity" might be better? Our true identity is the new creation - there is no old man left as he died on the cross. Scripture seems to be very clear about this. Romans 6:6 and Gal. 2:20.

How can someone still exist that has been killed? The only word for "nature" that scriptures uses is the divine nature we are made partakers of because of Christ.

2 Peter 1:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.


There is no such thing as an old man left - there is only a new man in Christ. The same way that there is no Jesus still hanging on a cross - we too are not still on a cross trying to die or waiting to die.

I agree that the term flesh is used in different contexts.


Here is what I have found that scripture has said about "the flesh".

The term "flesh" is used 3 different ways in the NT.

1) the carnal ways of thinking and actions left over from the prior manner of living from the old man which has been crucified with Christ on the cross ( Gal. 2:20; Romans 6:6 ) - this is where renewing our minds to the new creation in Christ in our inner man comes in ( Eph. 4:24 and many others like Galatians 5:19 )

2) it is used when talking about self-effort ( Romans 4:1-6 ; Phil. 3:3-9 )

3) and sometimes it just means the "fleshly-meat - the body" itself ( many places in scripture it is used in this manner)

Context will determine which "flesh" is being spoken of in the scripture.

The body itself is not evil - just what is in it - namely the flesh and the law of sin which functions like a parasite in the flesh ( Romans 7: 17-22 ). Jesus had a natural body too and it was not evil.


My point is - the flesh is not the real us. Our true nature is the divine nature because of our union with Christ - joined as one spirit by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 6:17

Jesus said that we have 3 enemies - the world, the flesh and the devil and He has conquered all 3.

But it could all be semantics and what the meaning of our man-made terms mean to us individually.

All is well. I enjoy this topic because as I said before - it is the understanding that the old man has died and that the flesh is not my true nature anymore - I have lived a holier life then ever thought possible before. The understanding of the circumcision of the flesh and spirit - the circumcision of Christ and the new creation in Christ now was paramount to me walking free in Christ.

Thanks brother and God bless!
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#9
I agree with most of your post grace7 but differ with you about this one thing. It's not our flesh that we have trouble with. Our flesh has been circumcised by the Lords death and resurrection. It's our soul that needs to come into union with our Spirit.

Small thing? No...the flesh is our human nature, or our ego. Our soul has to do with how we think about our connection to the Lord and to the world. So it's our soul that is in the process of our salvation.
I too think of our soul as a reflector of what we think and it is used to express our emotions. If we are scared - it will reflect that even though there may be no truth to it. If we believe that God has our situation in His hands - then we will experience the peace of God.

I agree that the renewing of the mind is vital to walking in the new creation that is in Christ.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#10
Didn't mean to jump on you grace7. I posted before reading further to netchaplains answers.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#11
Didn't mean to jump on you grace7. I posted before reading further to netchaplains answers.

I didn't think you did and it is a great topic and there are most likely different ways of viewing things too. The meaning of words can be different between people.

I do believe in netchaplin's view of being separated from the flesh and it's harmful effects - I just don't see the old man still hanging on a cross seeing that we are not still on a cross with Jesus.

If you like to watch teaching videos - Here is a great teaching on outer man and inner man and this guy talks about the soul in this as well as the new creation in Christ. 35 minutes long.


[video=youtube;vRwok6bfzrU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRwok6bfzrU[/video]
 
Mar 21, 2017
329
7
0
#12
It has been inspiringly said that “there was never a time when believers were not on the Father’s mind”! In their spirit and soul believers have been “raised with Christ” (Col 3:1). This is the present reality in experiencing part of the “Resurrection,” for we are in the death and resurrection of His Son in our spirit, by which He “has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Pet 1:3).
I don't understand what all that means. Just not clear. (True of the rest of the post.)

Colossians 1.3
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right of God.
(If = since.)

Notice Paul did not say, In their spirit and souls.

1. But since in their spirit and souls is what the above paragraph says, I'll include it in the verse.
If then you were raised in your spirit and soul with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.

If that's it, then what part of the person (people) is the YOU? Is it the physical body?
Let's see.
If then your physical bodies were raised in your spirit and soul with Christ, seek those things which are above....

How is the physical body raised in the spirit and soul? What does that mean?

2. What is the YOU? Is it the spirit and/or the soul?
Let's see.
If then your spirits/souls were raised in your spirit and soul with Christ, seek those things which are above.

That certainly doesn't work. Just not understanding.

Thank you.
 
N

NetChaplain

Guest
#13
I don't understand what all that means. Just not clear. (True of the rest of the post.)

Colossians 1.3
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right of God.
(If = since.)
HI TS - Thanks for your input and reply! IMO, the "you" is the spirit being, e.g. the person. The "soul" is the reasoning element of the spirit being which makes the decisions and is where accountability is incurred. The body is the physical part of the spirit being. Thus, presently those born again have died and are raised with Christ in their spirit being, and later in our mortal being (the body).

We in our spirit need no more redemption, but only in our body!