who lied first
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Aside from Eve, in her conversation with Satan, adding "neither shall ye touch it", the first lie mentioned in Scripture was told by Satan to Eve, and it is a lie taught perpetually today from many church pulpits (#1).
1. Disobeying God will not result in death
2. Disobeying God will bring greater wisdom than God has already given
There is a half-truth to #2, because the disobedience would bring a knowledge of evil that Eve previously had not known.
Genesis 3:1-5 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
1. Disobeying God will not result in death
2. Disobeying God will bring greater wisdom than God has already given
There is a half-truth to #2, because the disobedience would bring a knowledge of evil that Eve previously had not known.
Genesis 3:1-5 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
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I never stated either way, your judgement is based on what.
Yet the scriptures do say if eaten they would surely die. But yet they did not, no they were not immortal either Genisis 3:22 kills that statement. Adam and Eve live and were in the presence of god till removed, yet was sent messengers to help them with there teaching, so a spiritual death is not true either. So did god lie when he said they should surely die. Or was it a vage threat to add impotence to his limiting their choice.
Yet the scriptures do say if eaten they would surely die. But yet they did not, no they were not immortal either Genisis 3:22 kills that statement. Adam and Eve live and were in the presence of god till removed, yet was sent messengers to help them with there teaching, so a spiritual death is not true either. So did god lie when he said they should surely die. Or was it a vage threat to add impotence to his limiting their choice.
I missed my five minute edit. I attempted to add. Maybe I was a bit harsh. I don't know. The trouble with reading someones text is. We do not know where someones heart is, or what there motivations or intentions are.
My heart was at. Anyone posting claims that God is a liar. There intentions are not for good. My bad for judging the print on my monitor.
My heart was at. Anyone posting claims that God is a liar. There intentions are not for good. My bad for judging the print on my monitor.
R
It is impossible for God to lie. His thoughts are at a level that are in a dimension so much higher and deeper than ours. You're talking about the creator of everything. You're talking about God who put himself into flesh and bones and died for filthy and unloving people. Why would God even care about us? What are we? That's a good God. God would have no motive to lie, especially not if he would physically die and experience the torture that he went through.
Interesting points
But how.dis they die spiritually, did Adam need faith know.god personally walking and talking to face to face. Faith is overtaken by knowledge.
By starting to dye implies they were immortal. Yet we know they were not. So the direct Hebrew causes a new thought. Was the fruit sex? Was the start to the life a death pattern a baby within Eve.
As far as lying if you do not admit to something and allow another to take the fall is that a lie?
But how.dis they die spiritually, did Adam need faith know.god personally walking and talking to face to face. Faith is overtaken by knowledge.
By starting to dye implies they were immortal. Yet we know they were not. So the direct Hebrew causes a new thought. Was the fruit sex? Was the start to the life a death pattern a baby within Eve.
As far as lying if you do not admit to something and allow another to take the fall is that a lie?
I am glad that your questions are legit. There are many people on CC that know all of the scriptures very well. I am sure they will answer your questions. From what I have heard through sermons. God walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. As you mentioned... Till they were removed. So they were no longer in the presence of God? Being Spiritual dead was being cut off from God. Having messengers sent is much different then being in the actual presence of God.
I had never thought about this before. No man can see God in his full Glory. Seems Adam and Eve did before they ate of the forbidden fruit.
Who knows how long Adam and Eve would have lived before the fall of man happened. God could have sustained them forever if he wished.
I can only speculate. You are not looking for speculation. There are many others on CC that may have the exact detailed scriptures that you seek.
God Bless
I had never thought about this before. No man can see God in his full Glory. Seems Adam and Eve did before they ate of the forbidden fruit.
Who knows how long Adam and Eve would have lived before the fall of man happened. God could have sustained them forever if he wished.
I can only speculate. You are not looking for speculation. There are many others on CC that may have the exact detailed scriptures that you seek.
God Bless
Did Adam and Eve die spiritually? I cannot locate that in the Scripture. Did Adam need faith in God while walking/talking face to face? Not as long as they were face to face. Once driven from Eden, then the lack of face to face communication would require faith as defined in Scripture.
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Were Adam and Eve immortal previous to their fall? They were, on condition of eating fruit from the tree of life. Once they were driven out of Eden, they no longer had access to the tree of life. Hence, they began to die.
Genesis 3:22-24 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."
Was the fruit sex? This is a wild theory that has no Scriptural basis. Lying is lying, whether you admit it or not. Another person might not know, but God does.
God Bless
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Were Adam and Eve immortal previous to their fall? They were, on condition of eating fruit from the tree of life. Once they were driven out of Eden, they no longer had access to the tree of life. Hence, they began to die.
Genesis 3:22-24 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."
Was the fruit sex? This is a wild theory that has no Scriptural basis. Lying is lying, whether you admit it or not. Another person might not know, but God does.
God Bless
Why would the LORD do so to Job? As you read through the book, you find that Job's true character comes out. The LORD sifts His people like wheat to reveal who they really are. We praise God during good times, but do we do the same when everything is crashing around us?
You are correct. The Scriptures do not specifically state that they ate the fruit beforehand. However, seeing as they had to eat it to live forever (and avoid the process of dying), it would be safe to say that previous to them beginning to die when they sinned, they had at some point eaten the fruit from the tree of life. Otherwise they would have been dying since the LORD created them.
Honestly, I don't know what you are referencing when you speak of a baby. If you are saying that the fruit is sex, and because they ate of the fruit, Eve became pregnant, that is not what the Bible says. Eve bore children at some point after they were driven from Eden, and only when Adam 'knew' her. A Biblical term for having sex. The eating of the fruit, and them 'knowing' one another are completely separate events.
Genesis 4:1-2 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground."
I would advise you to pray deeply regarding these things. A thorough study of the Scripture will answer many of your questions, and erase many of the theories.
God Bless
You are correct. The Scriptures do not specifically state that they ate the fruit beforehand. However, seeing as they had to eat it to live forever (and avoid the process of dying), it would be safe to say that previous to them beginning to die when they sinned, they had at some point eaten the fruit from the tree of life. Otherwise they would have been dying since the LORD created them.
Honestly, I don't know what you are referencing when you speak of a baby. If you are saying that the fruit is sex, and because they ate of the fruit, Eve became pregnant, that is not what the Bible says. Eve bore children at some point after they were driven from Eden, and only when Adam 'knew' her. A Biblical term for having sex. The eating of the fruit, and them 'knowing' one another are completely separate events.
Genesis 4:1-2 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground."
I would advise you to pray deeply regarding these things. A thorough study of the Scripture will answer many of your questions, and erase many of the theories.
God Bless
Adam and Eve have had lost their spirit that give them life, and so they had became dead in spirit eventhough that they were alive physically. They had lost their joy and everything else that had given them life, but now they had live in a depress state of being, having to turn to something of the physical nature to try to replace what they have had. If you look real hard, you will see that a lot of people are spiritually dead; they are always looking for something to bring them to life, like some will work real hard to buy an expensive diamond ring so that they can have something to show to others by impressing them with that ring, and by the others expressions which makes holder of the ring feel good and bring them some joy, but it only last temporary; and now they have to find something else to impress others and so that they can have some joy again, and again. But with God, you'll need not to go to the jewelry store anymore.
Obviously the Devil lied. Devil even means Liar. Think about it.
1st Lie = "Yea, has God not said you shall eat of every fruit of the tree" This is a subtle lie, and Eve was not tricked by this one, she answered rightly that God said they could eat of every tree except the one in the midst of the garden
2nd Lie = "You will not die" Perhaps Eve had no way of knowing in fairness that this was a lie. It is pretty obvious though to all of us that is a lie as people surely are dying every day because of this incident. Is Eve still alive today? Nope she died.
3rd Lie = "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." This is the lie that seems to have tricked Eve most. This one is the most subtle. The focal point of the lie is that "you will become like God." It is a lie because since they were Immortal and created perfectly, they all ready were like God. They also would not have even needed the Knowledge of Good and Evil since everything was created perfect and Good, all they had to do was know God and be immortals. But once they committed evil by disobeying God they lost Immortality and thus they lost their full semblance to God.
Graciously, God is gracious and Jesus is the Way and the Truth and he will lead his flock to Waters of Life which can restore any man to the original state of perfection. And it is not the Waters of Life itself that leads to immortality, but rather Jesus Christ whom has the power to lead to access to the Waters of Life.
1st Lie = "Yea, has God not said you shall eat of every fruit of the tree" This is a subtle lie, and Eve was not tricked by this one, she answered rightly that God said they could eat of every tree except the one in the midst of the garden
2nd Lie = "You will not die" Perhaps Eve had no way of knowing in fairness that this was a lie. It is pretty obvious though to all of us that is a lie as people surely are dying every day because of this incident. Is Eve still alive today? Nope she died.
3rd Lie = "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." This is the lie that seems to have tricked Eve most. This one is the most subtle. The focal point of the lie is that "you will become like God." It is a lie because since they were Immortal and created perfectly, they all ready were like God. They also would not have even needed the Knowledge of Good and Evil since everything was created perfect and Good, all they had to do was know God and be immortals. But once they committed evil by disobeying God they lost Immortality and thus they lost their full semblance to God.
Graciously, God is gracious and Jesus is the Way and the Truth and he will lead his flock to Waters of Life which can restore any man to the original state of perfection. And it is not the Waters of Life itself that leads to immortality, but rather Jesus Christ whom has the power to lead to access to the Waters of Life.
