THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#41
I accept all of Yah's Instructions, I take joy in them, the world teaches me to be vile Yah teaches me to be righteous, I need a lot of work still, I know.

If you can find A SINGLE VERSE WHERE THE MESSIAH SAYS ANYTHING DIFFERENT I will take heed. As much as human words are worth I give my word. (it is Yah that leads)
So you don't accept Pauls epistles as the Words of God?
First I have a question for you, and respectfully, please answer this at the BEGINNING OF YOUR REPLY. Please.

Did Peter and Paul make any mistakes in their ministry at ANY TIME? Did Messiah make any mistakes? Who is the prophet WE MUST HEAR AND OBEY?

Why no talk of if I accept John, Peter, Jude, James, etc? And was Paul's letter to a particular group to every other group? Yes they can all learn from his writings but they were tailored to SPECIFIC groups of people WITH SPECIFIC ISSUES, issues we DO NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, if you want to claim a doctrine out of the mouth of ONE man and it is not in the mouth of 2 or 3 not that the Scrip is wrong, but the interpretation may be wrong.

Who is singled out as hard to understand? And it just so happens that people isolate this writer that is hard to understand and build doctrines without considering other Scripture. So the error is not in Paul but in people's understanding.

2 Kepha 3:15-16, "...Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

This was written for a reason to ignore it is folly.

With that said All Scripture is profitable, but must be looked at as a whole IMO.

However there is only ONE who Yahweh said we must shamaw.

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#42
Ok I say its good to obey ..but you must see that is Gods Spirit that does this work in you and the love demanded by the law is of the Spirit ...not by willpower of the flesh
Why would you even say, "not by willpower of the flesh"

It is like you are putting that doctrine on me.

I never said that, If I did please quote where I did and I will repent.

The entire post you quoted was about the opposite of that, what I said even the verse I quoted....
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#43
First I have a question for you, and respectfully, please answer this at the BEGINNING OF YOUR REPLY. Please.

Did Peter and Paul make any mistakes in their ministry at ANY TIME? Did Messiah make any mistakes? Who is the prophet WE MUST HEAR AND OBEY?

Why no talk of if I accept John, Peter, Jude, James, etc? And was Paul's letter to a particular group to every other group? Yes they can all learn from his writings but they were tailored to SPECIFIC groups of people WITH SPECIFIC ISSUES, issues we DO NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, if you want to claim a doctrine out of the mouth of ONE man and it is not in the mouth of 2 or 3 not that the Scrip is wrong, but the interpretation may be wrong.

Who is singled out as hard to understand? And it just so happens that people isolate this writer that is hard to understand and build doctrines without considering other Scripture. So the error is not in Paul but in people's understanding.

2 Kepha 3:15-16, "...Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

This was written for a reason to ignore it is folly.

With that said All Scripture is profitable, but must be looked at as a whole IMO.

However there is only ONE who Yahweh said we must shamaw.

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey
Yes after Peter warns about those who fail at Pauls (paulos) epistles, he says but you "grow in grace and knowledge of the lord Jesus" Its those who don't know the righteousness of faith and go about trying to be teachers of the law...that are in danger of the judgment that is upon all who preach another gospel other than Pauls gospel of GRACE.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#44
Do you have it in your mind that if one thinks with their brain, "I should be obedient" they are fallen?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#45
Why would you even say, "not by willpower of the flesh"

It is like you are putting that doctrine on me.

I never said that, If I did please quote where I did and I will repent.

The entire post you quoted was about the opposite of that, what I said even the verse I quoted....
Well most who look to the law...are trying to keep the law (parts of it) by willpower...which is an act of the flesh.
 
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
102
0
#46
I agree in general...but one must know the righteousness of faith to walk in the Spirit...to be under the law is to be in the "flesh" ...

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

yes, faith comes from hearing, but...

True Blessedness
27While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." 28But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."




 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#47
Do you have it in your mind that if one thinks with their brain, "I should be obedient" they are fallen?
Not sure what that means...but I admit the law is just and holy...I also admit nothing good lives in my flesh...therefore I must yield to the Spirit of God in me to keep that which I see in the law...
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#48

yes, faith comes from hearing, but...

True Blessedness
27While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." 28But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."




Sure we are all called to obedience from the heart the doctrine that has been given to us in Gods Word...
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#49
Yes after Peter warns about those who fail at Pauls (paulos) epistles, he says but you "grow in grace and knowledge of the lord Jesus" Its those who don't know the righteousness of faith and go about trying to be teachers of the law...that are in danger of the judgment that is upon all who preach another gospel other than Pauls gospel of GRACE.
Is that what he goes on to say?

v17

[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]113 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]athesmōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀθέσμων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]lawless[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
lawless is word #113 - athesmos
athesmos: lawless
Original Word: ἄθεσμος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: athesmos
Phonetic Spelling: (ath'-es-mos)
Short Definition: lawless
Definition: lawless, unrestrained, licentious.

This is what the Scripture goes on to say;

New International Version
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

New Living Translation
I am warning you ahead of time, dear friends. Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing.

English Standard Version
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

New American Standard Bible
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

King James Bible
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stability.

International Standard Version
And so, dear friends, since you already know these things, continuously be on your guard not to be carried away by the deception of lawless people. Otherwise, you may fall from your secure position.

NET Bible
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard that you do not get led astray by the error of these unprincipled men and fall from your firm grasp on the truth.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
You therefore, beloved, as you have known beforehand, guard your souls, lest you go after the deception of those who are without The Law and you fall from your own stability.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Dear friends, you already know these things. So be on your guard not to be carried away by the deception of people who have no principles. Then you won't fall from your firm position.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Ye, therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things in advance, be on guard lest by the error of the wicked ye be deceived with the others and fall from your own steadfastness.

King James 2000 Bible
You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things beforehand, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

American King James Version
You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

American Standard Version
Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness.

Darby Bible Translation
*Ye* therefore, beloved, knowing [these] things before, take care lest, being led away along with the error of the wicked, ye should fall from your own stedfastness:

English Revised Version
Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness.

Webster's Bible Translation
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

Weymouth New Testament
You, therefore, dear friends, having been warned beforehand, must continually be on your guard so as not to be led astray by the false teaching of immoral men nor fall from your own stedfastness.

World English Bible
You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness.

Young's Literal Translation
Ye, then, beloved, knowing before, take heed, lest, together with the error of the impious being led away, ye may fall from your own stedfastness,

2 Peter 3:17 Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4771 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Hymeis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ὑμεῖς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]You[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-N2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3767 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]oun[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὖν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]therefore,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]27 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]agapētoi[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀγαπητοί,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]beloved,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-VMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4267 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]proginōskontes[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]προγινώσκοντες[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]knowing [this] beforehand,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PPA-NMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5442 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]phylassesthe[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]φυλάσσεσθε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]beware,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PMM-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2443 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hina[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἵνα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3361 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"][/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μὴ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"][/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῇ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]with the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῶν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]113 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]athesmōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀθέσμων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]lawless[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4106 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]planē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πλάνῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]error[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4879 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]synapachthentes[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]συναπαχθέντες[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]having been led away,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-APP-NMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1601 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ekpesēte[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐκπέσητε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]you should fall from[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-ASA-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][your][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2398 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]idiou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἰδίου[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]own[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4740 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]stērigmou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]στηριγμοῦ,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]steadfastness.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#50
Well most who look to the law...are trying to keep the law (parts of it) by willpower...which is an act of the flesh.
I understand that.

But most and truth are not the same thing.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#51
2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

What did, "take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people" mean?

By lawless people was he actually warning aginst people who would preach obedience to said Law?

Or by lawlessness is he warning against people who would preach against said Law?
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
11
18
#52
2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Ministration of DEATH, written and engraved on stones ...only the Ten Commandments was written and engraved on stones. That has passed away and we now serve God. not according to the "letter" but according to the "Spirit"
Nice, but you forgot the rest of the context of what was being spoken of here...

2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in the Messiah.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to YHWH, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now YHWH is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of YHWH is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of YHWH, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of YHWH.

Looks to me like this is not talking about the law, but rather the veil was to be done away with.
That veil which was by the law that separates us from His presence was removed, whereby through our Messiah, we can stand in his presence and glory, where we could not before.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto YHWH.

Mat 22:37 Yahushua said unto him, Thou shalt love YHWH thy Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Psa_19:7 The law of YHWH is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of YHWH is sure, making wise the simple.

Rom_7:25 Thanks be to YHWH through Yahushua the Messiah our Saviour. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of YHWH; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Messiah Yahushua hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

As stated before, the first four of the commandments are between man and Yah, with the 4th one being our direct link between us and Him within the law, and then the last 6 are between one another. If we do these things, we show love for Him, and one another.


Isa_5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of YHWH of hosts, and despised the word of the Set-apart One of Israel.

Isa_30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of YHWH:

Amo_2:4 Thus saith YHWH; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have despised the law of YHWH, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:

Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of YHWH after the inward man:
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against YHWH: for it is not subject to the law of YHWH, neither indeed can be.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#53
Why do you post those big post that nobody reads? Of course the Old Testament is going to uphold the letter of the law...But the New Testament upholds the Blood of Jesus and the righteousness of faith.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#54
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

But ofthe fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, Yahweh has said: You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, or you will die. And the serpent said to the woman; You will not surely die.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#55
Nice, but you forgot the rest of the context of what was being spoken of here...

2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in the Messiah.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to YHWH, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now YHWH is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of YHWH is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of YHWH, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of YHWH.

Looks to me like this is not talking about the law, but rather the veil was to be done away with.
That veil which was by the law that separates us from His presence was removed, whereby through our Messiah, we can stand in his presence and glory, where we could not before.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto YHWH.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Psa_19:7 The law of YHWH is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of YHWH is sure, making wise the simple.

Rom_7:25 Thanks be to YHWH through Yahushua the Messiah our Saviour. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of YHWH; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Messiah Yahushua hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

As stated before, the first four of the commandments are between man and Yah, with the 4th one being our direct link between us and Him within the law, and then the last 6 are between one another. If we do these things, we show love for Him, and one another.


Isa_5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of YHWH of hosts, and despised the word of the Set-apart One of Israel.

Isa_30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of YHWH:

Amo_2:4 Thus saith YHWH; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have despised the law of YHWH, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:

Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of YHWH after the inward man:
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against YHWH: for it is not subject to the law of YHWH, neither indeed can be.
What is the ministry of death written and engraved in stones? If its not the Ten Commandments? Of course it is and it reads clearly that for the believer in Christ, it has past away.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#56
Why do you post those big post that nobody reads? Of course the Old Testament is going to uphold the letter of the law...But the New Testament upholds the Blood of Jesus and the righteousness of faith.
Lol nice way to ignore the fact that you said;

Yes after Peter warns about those who fail at Pauls (paulos) epistles, he says but you "grow in grace and knowledge of the lord Jesus" Its those who don't know the righteousness of faith and go about trying to be teachers of the law...that are in danger of the judgment that is upon all who preach another gospel other than Pauls gospel of GRACE.
When the verse really says:

"take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people"

2 peter 3:17
English Standard Version
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#57
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

But ofthe fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, Yahweh has said: You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, or you will die. And the serpent said to the woman; You will not surely die.
Only those who keep the law of the Spirit keep the law of God...those who are under the written code are lawless...for they claim to keep the law...but they do not.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#58
Lol nice way to ignore the fact that you said;



When the verse really says:

"take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people"

2 peter 3:17
English Standard Version
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
Well im the one who is teaching others how to keep the law according to the gospel, it those who are teaching the written code that are lawless and only keep the law with their hypocrisy and false words.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#59
Only those who keep the law of the Spirit keep the law of God...those who are under the written code are lawless...for they claim to keep the law...but they do not.
I do understand the Spirit of Yahweh guides, prods, corrects, and teaches, etc but

Is it ok for me to read the words of Messiah and with prayer set my mind to do them or is that evil?

Must I learn about Messiah and Yahweh's Instruction ONLY sitting in a meditative position with a blank mind? Or is it ok to read Scripture as a life guide?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#60
Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The law will always make man a sinner ...that's its job...it can only condemn ..it cannot justify any man. To uphold the law is to see its true standard....which is what the Lord did...He brought the Law to its highest level where even the most self-righteous would become guilty and turn to Him and His Grace.