Sunday Keepers Dare to explain this

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ELECT

Guest
#1
;) [h=1]Isaiah 66:22-24King James Version (KJV)[/h]22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


 
Dec 24, 2014
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#2
Those that die, actually KEEP Sabbath! The bible tells you that as long as the land lies desolate it shall keep sabbath. It also tells you that blessed are those that die in the Lord, and that they finally rest from their burdens.
 
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elf3

Guest
#3
What's more important? The day we give to God or that we have given our lives to Christ?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#4
Those that die, actually KEEP Sabbath! The bible tells you that as long as the land lies desolate it shall keep sabbath. It also tells you that blessed are those that die in the Lord, and that they finally rest from their burdens.
Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#5
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.


"
one new moon to another" and "one sabbath to another" means every day or continually, right?

i'm convinced that there is no day unfit to worship the Lord.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#6
What's more important? The day we give to God or that we have given our lives to Christ?
Not saying you are or are not (you seem like a really great guy)

but for sake of the question.

Can one give their life to Messiah if they don't do what He says?
 
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elf3

Guest
#7
"new moon to new moon" and "one sabbath to another" means every day, right?

i'm convinced that there is no day unfit to worship the Lord.
Amen! We should worship God every day actually every moment.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#8
Can the Sabbath be kept every day?
 
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elf3

Guest
#9
Not saying you are or are not (you seem like a really great guy)

but for sake of the question.

Can one give their life to Messiah if they don't do what He says?
But the question remains. Is Love of God our priority or is any type of "legalism" our priority? Do you really think God is more worried about a day or a life?
 
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elf3

Guest
#10
I see it this way. We worry so much about other "commands" of God that we miss the main command...love God. We worry so much about the Sabbath or baptism or good works that we actually begin to forget the Gospel of Christ.

Why are we arguing over a day when we should be reminding each other of the Gospel.

We need to preach the Gospel of Christ.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,681
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#11
Can the Sabbath be kept every day?
obviously not if you understand it as being just one of seven days. you can't keep the letter of the ordinance that you should work 6 days and rest on the 7th, every day of the week.

but if the true sabbath is to cease from your own works, entering into His rest..? in spirit we can honor the sabbath eternally, i think.
 
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elf3

Guest
#12
I don't care when someone "goes to church" I care if they know the Gospel of Christ. That's my agenda that's my command from God..to spread the Gospel of Christ.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#13
But the question remains. Is Love of God our priority or is any type of "legalism" our priority? Do you really think God is more worried about a day or a life?
yes, but who defines love? and there is a big difference netween obedience to Yahweh commands and legalism (take it or leave it, IMO)


Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws(entole). For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Without His Law THERE IS NO LOVE brother.

For the mouth of THE prophet has spoken it:

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
 
Dec 24, 2014
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#14
Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

John 9

4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

5
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Exodus 29


38 Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.
41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the Lord.
42 This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee.
43 And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and the tabernacle shall be sanctified by my glory.
44 And I will sanctify the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar: I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons, to minister to me in the priest's office.
45 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.
46 And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the Lord their God.

John 10


6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#15
obviously not if you understand it as being just one of seven days. you can't keep the letter of the ordinance that you should work 6 days and rest on the 7th, every day of the week.

but if the true sabbath is to cease from your own works, entering into His rest..? in spirit we can honor the sabbath eternally, i think.
Church semantics to make people fall asleep.

I will show you why I believe this:

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Heb 3:16-19, "For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey?So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

If these people physically died a long long time before Yahshua (Jesus) became our mercy, how could this even be said? "vow that they would not enter into His rest"

Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "

The real rest is this:

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Revelation 21:4-8 And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful.And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone--which is the second death."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,681
13,132
113
#16
I don't care when someone "goes to church" I care if they know the Gospel of Christ. That's my agenda that's my command from God..to spread the Gospel of Christ.
seems like a lot of us think that assembling together on sunday or saturday (whenever) is "keeping the Sabbath" -- i don't think that's a correct understanding of it.

it's true that the Jews were to worship on this day, but that's not the entirety of it, and it's not the only time they ever did. "keeping / honoring the Sabbath" and "congregational worship" are not synonymous, right?

i want to say that holding Sunday worship is not tantamount to dishonoring the Sabbath according to the Law. under the Law (not saying we're under it either) one could abide by all the Sabbath commandments according to the Mosaic law on saturday, even without attending any congregation that day, and still do these things on Sunday too. isn't that correct?
 
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elf3

Guest
#17
yes, but who defines love? and there is a big difference netween obedience to Yahweh commands and legalism (take it or leave it, IMO)


Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws(entole). For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Without His Law THERE IS NO LOVE brother.

For the mouth of THE prophet has spoken it:

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Yes but think about this...the two greatest commandments. Love God love others. In the new covenant do you think God is more concerned what day we set aside for Him or that we have given our lives to Him? I totally have no problem with messianic Jews keeping the Sabbath and following some Jewish traditions. The problem arises when we start to "judge" others by certain things they do like "church on Sunday". When we judge others on things like this we become no better that the Jewish leaders of old.

So my brother Hiz can we agree that Christ is the center not a day we "give to Him"? We should be giving every day to God anyway :) in my book once a week isn't enough and neither is 8 days a week
 
Dec 24, 2014
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#18
Yes but think about this...the two greatest commandments. Love God love others. In the new covenant do you think God is more concerned what day we set aside for Him or that we have given our lives to Him? I totally have no problem with messianic Jews keeping the Sabbath and following some Jewish traditions. The problem arises when we start to "judge" others by certain things they do like "church on Sunday". When we judge others on things like this we become no better that the Jewish leaders of old.

So my brother Hiz can we agree that Christ is the center not a day we "give to Him"? We should be giving every day to God anyway :) in my book once a week isn't enough and neither is 8 days a week
The problem is people's definition of "day". As long as you are alive, it is YOUR day.
 
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elf3

Guest
#19
seems like a lot of us think that assembling together on sunday or saturday (whenever) is "keeping the Sabbath" -- i don't think that's a correct understanding of it.

it's true that the Jews were to worship on this day, but that's not the entirety of it, and it's not the only time they ever did. "keeping / honoring the Sabbath" and "congregational worship" are not synonymous, right?

i want to say that holding Sunday worship is not tantamount to dishonoring the Sabbath according to the Law. under the Law (not saying we're under it either) one could abide by all the Sabbath commandments according to the Mosaic law on saturday, even without attending any congregation that day, and still do these things on Sunday too. isn't that correct?
I might be lost a bit lol
My point would be that we are no longer under the Mosaic law. And would God be more happy on a day we "worship" Him or that we have given our lives to Christ. Things like this divide the church and take our minds off the Gospel of Christ. I just think we on a whole as the church need to focus more on the Gospel.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#20
John 9

4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

5
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.


John (Yahchanan 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
Exodus 29



Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.
41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the Lord.
42 This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee.
43 And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and the tabernacle shall be sanctified by my glory.
44 And I will sanctify the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar: I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons, to minister to me in the priest's office.
45 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.
46 And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the Lord their God.


This is the TAMID offering. Im not sure how this changes anything, many have used this verse to try to disable the Sabbath, but it makes no sense, at least the views I have heard on this; So the Tamid was offered by the priest, and not for each and every person, but for all Israyl. Yahshua is now the High Priest, the priesthood is transferred, not done away, AND considering the OP, I think this is showing that Sabbath is going to contiue in the 1,000 yrs and likely beyond.



6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Ok He is the door:

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Find me a single place where Yahshua says not to obey Yahweh's Law and I will repent INSTANTLY, until then I will seek to do as he says:

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your efather and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection of Yahweh, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.


Matt 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day, For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be."

Jesus didnt get the law change memo?
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."