Music in Church?

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S

Sophia

Guest
#41
I'll leave you three to encourage each other in your common opinion. I can't see anything good coming from me sticking around with such differing views of how to interpret Scripture.
Just so you know, I do not like the concert-style, emotion manipulating, stage/frontman centered "worship" the that has become so commonplace, accepted, and adored; but rejecting instruments entirely just doesn't ring true with what I read in Scripture, nor what is confirmed by the Spirit within me. This is not liberalism. This is from accepting the OT as being useful for instruction. This is not cherry-picking. This is from rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#42
1COR.13:6-11.

there are many voices in the world as well as many instruments,
may we all use them wisely when edifying our Father and the Church.

there is a ' carnal beat' that most of us recognize when we hear it,
very ancient, very unhealthy, very powerful, very unholy,
it can take over one's senses and take you another place that is not
good or proper for those who want to worship in truth and humility.

for ourselves, we were led away from those un-natural 'beats' and
gladly left them behind, we came to love God's lovely 'nature rhythms'
that come from the Spirit, they calm and restore and tug at our
inner-most core, creating a most satisfying peace.

(getting-down for God, has taken us into a whole new meaning):)
The heaven and the New Jerusalem are going to be a very unsettling place for you.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#43
1COR.13:6-11.

there are many voices in the world as well as many instruments,
may we all use them wisely when edifying our Father and the Church.

there is a ' carnal beat' that most of us recognize when we hear it,
very ancient, very unhealthy, very powerful, very unholy,
it can take over one's senses and take you another place that is not
good or proper for those who want to worship in truth and humility.

for ourselves, we were led away from those un-natural 'beats' and
gladly left them behind, we came to love God's lovely 'nature rhythms'
that come from the Spirit, they calm and restore and tug at our
inner-most core, creating a most satisfying peace.

(getting-down for God, has taken us into a whole new meaning):)

Paul is not talking about playing instruments in worship but the subject is tongues. Paul is saying an instrument makes sense when it is played therefore one who speaks in tongues should also make sense when speaking, for speaking in what does not make sense does not do any good.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#44
What am I supposed to think is not true? Inclusive commands? You are joking right? How does the Apostolic command to sing somehow exclude instruments? If it excludes instruments, then it also excludes writing them down, and excludes shouting them, and excludes ... anything else but speaking and singing in psalm. I respect your conscience on the issue, but not your reasoning. Inclusive and exclusive commands are a basic and fundamental part of language.

So you are against music as a form of worship, even though many psalms require it as stated in their introduction? Are those sections now abolished by the New Covenant, or do they agree with the New Covenant? They agree, as does all Scripture.
Sophia,
These folks are Church of Christ you will never convince them and its fine
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#45
What am I supposed to think is not true? Inclusive commands? You are joking right? How does the Apostolic command to sing somehow exclude instruments? If it excludes instruments, then it also excludes writing them down, and excludes shouting them, and excludes ... anything else but speaking and singing in psalm. I respect your conscience on the issue, but not your reasoning. Inclusive and exclusive commands are a basic and fundamental part of language.
Jesus said love God with all your heart, according to your "inclusive" reasoning, with that we can love Him a little, love Him a lot, love His sometimes etc...

can you see the problem with justifying self imposed religion?

So you are against music as a form of worship, even though many psalms require it as stated in their introduction? Are those sections now abolished by the New Covenant, or do they agree with the New Covenant? They agree, as does all Scripture.
Jas 2:10 (KJV)
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

If you're going to use the Psalms to justify instrumental music, you must also use the whole, in other words, you must perform animal sacrifice etc... you cannot cherry pick what you wish to worship.
 

JesusMyOnly

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2014
880
15
0
#46
They are just stuck in their traditions, want things to remain the same, afraid of changes or maturing; and some of them wears dentures and so they can't eat solid foods.

<strong>[video=youtube_share;X60jBqWiZPk]http://youtu.be/X60jBqWiZPk[/video]
Thank you for answering my question.. .... .....................Wasn't very nice.
 
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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#47
CoC only does water music.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
#49
I've heard many Christians say that musical instruments and certain musical things can not be used in Church. I'm curious, why does that belief even exist? I'm not even being mean in asking why some of you believe this way. I'm just asking to get a better idea of why. Please, do not fight.

Bible scripture to use defending this?
Why? Probably because some guy said not to back in the day.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#51
I'll leave you three to encourage each other in your common opinion. I can't see anything good coming from me sticking around with such differing views of how to interpret Scripture.
Just so you know, I do not like the concert-style, emotion manipulating, stage/frontman centered "worship" the that has become so commonplace, accepted, and adored; but rejecting instruments entirely just doesn't ring true with what I read in Scripture, nor what is confirmed by the Spirit within me. This is not liberalism. This is from accepting the OT as being useful for instruction. This is not cherry-picking. This is from rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
One last question.

I asked earlier in this thread, if I do not have to do what the bible says when it comes to singing, then I do not have to do anything the bible says when it comes to any issue?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#52
What am I supposed to think is not true? Inclusive commands? You are joking right? How does the Apostolic command to sing somehow exclude instruments? If it excludes instruments, then it also excludes writing them down, and excludes shouting them, and excludes ... anything else but speaking and singing in psalm. I respect your conscience on the issue, but not your reasoning. Inclusive and exclusive commands are a basic and fundamental part of language.
This is a rather silly argument and I think you know that. The silent hermeneutic is a very prominent fixture in scripture. When God instructed Israel regarding the offering of sacrifices upon the altar he gave very strict instructions as to how these things were to be done. There was no tolerance for departure from what was specifically commanded. For example, when God told Moses that the officiating Priest was to use fire from the altar of Burnt Offering for their fire pans of incense this necessarilly excluded all other sources of fire. When Nadab and Abihu violated this silent hermeneutic it cost them their lives.

So you are against music as a form of worship, even though many psalms require it as stated in their introduction? Are those sections now abolished by the New Covenant, or do they agree with the New Covenant? They agree, as does all Scripture.
Of course I am not opposed to music as a form of worship. I am opposed to INSTRUMENTAL music as a form of worship. How God instructed Israel to worship under the Law has absolutely nothing to do with how we are commanded to worship in the Church.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#54
Luke chapter 15

[11] And he said, A certain man had two sons:
[12] And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
[13] And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
[14] And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
[15] And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
[16] And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
[17] And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
[18] I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
[19] And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
[20] And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
[21] And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
[22] But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
[23] And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
[24] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
[25] Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
[26] And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
[27] And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
[28] And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
[29] And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
[30] But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
[31] And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
[32] It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.


Seeing how the "father" in this parable represents our heavenly Father and seeing how his/His decree that "it was meet that we should make merry" at the return of the one who was previously "dead" and "lost" INCLUDED MUSIC AND DANCING IN HIS HOUSE...

Seriously, some people here sound like the older brother who was "angry and wouldn't go in"...
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#55
Luke chapter 15

[11] And he said, A certain man had two sons:
[12] And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
[13] And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
[14] And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
[15] And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
[16] And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
[17] And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
[18] I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
[19] And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
[20] And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
[21] And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
[22] But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
[23] And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
[24] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
[25] Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
[26] And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
[27] And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
[28] And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
[29] And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
[30] But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
[31] And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
[32] It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.


Seeing how the "father" in this parable represents our heavenly Father and seeing how his/His decree that "it was meet that we should make merry" at the return of the one who was previously "dead" and "lost" INCLUDED MUSIC AND DANCING IN HIS HOUSE...

Seriously, some people here sound like the older brother who was "angry and wouldn't go in"...
So too should we kill the fatted calf each and every worship service? (Luke 15:27):

Luke 15:27 (KJV) And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.

if not why not?
 
Dec 24, 2014
106
1
0
#56
The true purpose of music in churches, especially of those buildings designed to be such, is to use its energy and vibration to deceive those into believing the Holy Spirit is moving in people. It also amplifies the message of the preacher in order to collect more money.

[video=youtube_share;AS67HA4YMCs]http://youtu.be/AS67HA4YMCs[/video]
 
Dec 24, 2014
106
1
0
#57
[video=youtube_share;KU84ckD1AcA]http://youtu.be/KU84ckD1AcA[/video]
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#58
So too should we kill the fatted calf each and every worship service? (Luke 15:27):

Luke 15:27 (KJV) And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.

if not why not?
The point of the parable is that the Father spared nothing WHILE REJOICING over the return of His wayward son and such REJOICING included MUSIC AND DANCING. As such, for any here to suggest that God is adamantly opposed to either is almost as ridiculous as your question.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#59
Luke chapter 15

[11] And he said, A certain man had two sons:
[12] And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
[13] And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
[14] And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
[15] And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
[16] And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
[17] And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
[18] I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
[19] And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
[20] And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
[21] And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
[22] But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
[23] And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
[24] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
[25] Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
[26] And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
[27] And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
[28] And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
[29] And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
[30] But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
[31] And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
[32] It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.


Seeing how the "father" in this parable represents our heavenly Father and seeing how his/His decree that "it was meet that we should make merry" at the return of the one who was previously "dead" and "lost" INCLUDED MUSIC AND DANCING IN HIS HOUSE...

Seriously, some people here sound like the older brother who was "angry and wouldn't go in"...
That is a rather absurd representation of this parable. This parable is not about the methodology of worship. In fact it is not about worship at all. It is about embracing the brother who sinned and repented. You can't make scripture say just anything you want it to.
 
M

MsLimpet

Guest
#60
Luke chapter 15


[25] Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
[2
I wanted to address the verse you underlined and put it in context:

25 Now his elder son was in the field:—The prodigal son. There are several well-arranged scenes that complete the picture. The first is in the home with the younger son asking for his portion of the inheritance,the second scene is the prodigal son in a far country living riotously, the third, the prodigal son reduced to poverty, feeding swine, and friendless, and homeless, coming to himself and resolving to return home, the fourth, the meeting and greeting of the father and son, the making merry and rejoicing together, the last scene, the elder brother coming to the house, discovering what was doing on, rebuking the father, and his cool treatment of his brother. Many conflicting interpretations have been given about the elder brother's part in the scene. Some have regarded him as a type of the angels in heaven.Others have said that he represents the Jewish nation. Others make him represent the proud Pharisees.

The music which the elder son heard was of that kind which he knew to be accompanied with a dance, both music and dancing are joined to the verb "heard." At weddings, birthdays, and all other festal gatherings music was their chief entertainment.

Does the scripture you quoted mean we are to worship with instruments?
 
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