Most of the salvation scriptures are not referring to eternal salvation

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F

forsha

Guest
#1
#1
Salvation is translated to mean "a deliverance." Most of them are talking about a deliverance that we experience here in this earth. The inspired word of God is given, not to tell man how to get saved (delivered) eternally, but to instruct his children how to live their lives while they are here on earth. God chastens those that he loves. He does not chasten those that are not his children, Psalms 73.
 
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K

krow

Guest
#2
#2
forsha said:
Salvation is translated to mean "a deliverance." Most of them are talking about a deliverance that we experience here in this earth. The inspired word of God is given, not to tell man how to get saved (delivered) eternally, but to instruct his children how to live their lives while they are here on earth. God chastens those that he loves. He does not chasten those that are not his children, Psalms 73.
Click to expand...
How do you come to that conclusion?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life.

The greek word for eternal is:
Aionios


  1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
  2. without beginning
  3. without end, never to cease, everlasting
And the greek word for life in this sentence used was Zoe

  1. life
    1. the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate
    2. every living soul
  2. life
    1. of the absolute fulness of life, both essential and ethical, which belongs to God, and through him both to the hypostatic "logos" and to Christ in whom the "logos" put on human nature
    2. life real and genuine, a life active and vigorous, devoted to God, blessed, in the portion even in this world of those who put their trust in Christ, but after the resurrection to be consummated by new accessions (among them a more perfect body), and to last for ever.
So in the context of the original language is it saying that once a believer comes to Christ they are given new different life in their soul and now have eternal life, salvation, no longer dead and worthy of hell.
 
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Galatians2-20

Galatians2-20

Senior Member
#3
Mar 17, 2013
261
19
18
#3
All of the scriptures many use to plead their case concerning "Once Saved Always Saved" do not justify the idea of unconditional eternal security. Such doctrine is nothing more than the carnal assumptions of sinful men. Rather, those scriptures actually are talking about life in the Spirit and God's ability to sanctify those who place their complete reliane on Him and make their home in Him.

Salvation occurs when the Spirit of Christ comes to make His home in us (Rom. 8:11). Sanctification occurs when we make our home in Him (Gal. 5:16). Grace is an open invitation. Faith is the key that opens the door. (Eph. 2:8)
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification..." ~ 1 Thess. 4:3
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4
Jul 31, 2013
36,665
13,127
113
#4
are we at least agreed that salvation is God's doing, not ours?
 
B

BradC

Guest
#5
#5
forsha said:
Salvation is translated to mean "a deliverance." Most of them are talking about a deliverance that we experience here in this earth. The inspired word of God is given, not to tell man how to get saved (delivered) eternally, but to instruct his children how to live their lives while they are here on earth. God chastens those that he loves. He does not chasten those that are not his children, Psalms 73.
Click to expand...
Very good point!
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#6
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6
Deliverance from sin. Sin carries a death penalty. Deliverance carries a life consequence life without end life eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
F

forsha

Guest
#7
#7
krow said:
How do you come to that conclusion?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life.

The greek word for eternal is:
Aionios


  1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
  2. without beginning
  3. without end, never to cease, everlasting
And the greek word for life in this sentence used was Zoe

  1. life
    1. the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate
    2. every living soul
  2. life
    1. of the absolute fulness of life, both essential and ethical, which belongs to God, and through him both to the hypostatic "logos" and to Christ in whom the "logos" put on human nature
    2. life real and genuine, a life active and vigorous, devoted to God, blessed, in the portion even in this world of those who put their trust in Christ, but after the resurrection to be consummated by new accessions (among them a more perfect body), and to last for ever.
So in the context of the original language is it saying that once a believer comes to Christ they are given new different life in their soul and now have eternal life, salvation, no longer dead and worthy of hell.
Click to expand...
The word "world" in John 3:16, according to Thayer's Greek interpretation is, pertaining to "believers only" John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. If a person is a believer they are already born of the Spirit according to 1 Cor 2:10-14. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world of believers that he - - - - .
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#8
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#8
forsha said:
The word "world" in John 3:16, according to Thayer's Greek interpretation is, pertaining to "believers only" John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. If a person is a believer they are already born of the Spirit according to 1 Cor 2:10-14. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world of believers that he - - - - .
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing that world in John 3:16 is kosmos which is the universe all of ungodly mankind.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
B

BradC

Guest
#10
#10
forsha said:
The word "world" in John 3:16, according to Thayer's Greek interpretation is, pertaining to "believers only" John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. If a person is a believer they are already born of the Spirit according to 1 Cor 2:10-14. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world of believers that he - - - - .
Click to expand...
Not a good point! World is 'kosmos' which refers to all of the human race of ungodly men aliented from God. The word 'kosmos' is never used to refer to believers or to the church. We as believers are called out of the 'kosmos'

John 15:19

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[TR]
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[TD]ἀλλά alla[/TD]
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K

krow

Guest
#11
#11
forsha said:
The word "world" in John 3:16, according to Thayer's Greek interpretation is, pertaining to "believers only" John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. If a person is a believer they are already born of the Spirit according to 1 Cor 2:10-14. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world of believers that he - - - - .
Click to expand...
It says it can mean alot of things... it can refer to the entire world, the ungoldy, and the godly etc...
  1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
  2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
  3. the world, the universe
  4. the circle of the earth, the earth
  5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
  6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
  7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
    1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
  8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
    1. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
    2. of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
Interesting as with anything context must be taken into account, He was preaching to Nicodemus who wasn't saved YET etc correct? He was telling him why He was there and that He was sent into the world to save the ungodly Jews from their sins. Salvation is always first for the Jew then for the Gentile because He came for them first.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#12
#12
Galatians2-20 said:
All of the scriptures many use to plead their case concerning "Once Saved Always Saved" do not justify the idea of unconditional eternal security. Such doctrine is nothing more than the carnal assumptions of sinful men. Rather, those scriptures actually are talking about life in the Spirit and God's ability to sanctify those who place their complete reliane on Him and make their home in Him.

Salvation occurs when the Spirit of Christ comes to make His home in us (Rom. 8:11). Sanctification occurs when we make our home in Him (Gal. 5:16). Grace is an open invitation. Faith is the key that opens the door. (Eph. 2:8)
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification..." ~ 1 Thess. 4:3
Click to expand...
John 6:37-40, All that the Father GIVETH me SHALL, (meaning WILL) come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of ALL which he HATH GIVEN me I should LOSE NOTHING, but RAISE it up again at the last day. So, who did Jesus die for? All that God gave him. He did not die for anyone that God did not give him, and all that God did give him will live with him in heaven, without the loss of even one. If that's not eternal security, I don't know how much plainer it could be said. In answer to Rom 8:11, I will direct your attention to Eph 2:1, And you hath he QUICKENED (gave life, born again) who were DEAD (spiritually dead, carnal) in trespasses and sins. The carnal man will not, and, indeed can not discern spiritual things until they have been born of the Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14. The "FAITH" in Eph 2:8, is not man's faith, but is Jesus's faith. Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, But by the faith OF Jesus Christ. Sanctification did not come "when man makes his home in Jesus". Sanctification came on the cross, the same time that eternal salvation came. 1 Thes 4:3, It was the will of God that all those that he gave to Jesus should be sanctified on the cross. It disturbs me that man takes honor and praise away from God and claims the glory for himself.
 
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F

forsha

Guest
#13
#13
posthuman said:
are we at least agreed that salvation is God's doing, not ours?
Click to expand...
Yes! Eternal deliverance and also deliverances (salvations) we receive here on this earth also are God's doing, he gets all the credit, not man.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#14
#14
notuptome said:
Deliverance from sin. Sin carries a death penalty. Deliverance carries a life consequence life without end life eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Yes, sin does carry a death sentence. Christ took that death sentence away for those that God gave him to die for. Those that he died for, however, still do sin as they live here in this world which renders them DEAD from the fellowship with their God until they repent, but they never lose their eternal security of living with him in heaven.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#15
#15
notuptome said:
I'm not seeing that world in John 3:16 is kosmos which is the universe all of ungodly mankind.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
I didn't either until I referred to the original Greek interpretation by Mr. Thayer.
 
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F

forsha

Guest
#16
#16
BradC said:
Not a good point! World is 'kosmos' which refers to all of the human race of ungodly men aliented from God. The word 'kosmos' is never used to refer to believers or to the church. We as believers are called out of the 'kosmos'

John 15:19

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[TR]
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[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]would[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g302[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἄν an[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]love[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g5368[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]φιλέω phileō[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]his own:[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2398[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἴδιος idios[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1161[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]δέ de[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]because[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g3754[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ὅτι hoti[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]ye are[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2075[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐστέ este[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g3756[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]οὐ ou[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]of[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1537[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐκ ek[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2889 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]κόσμος kosmos[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g235[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἀλλά alla[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]I[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1473[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐγώ egō[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]have chosen[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1586[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐκλέγομαι eklegomai[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]you[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g5209[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ὑμᾶς hymas[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]out of[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1537 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐκ ek[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2889 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]κόσμος kosmos[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]therefore[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g5124[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]τοῦτο touto[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]↑[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1223[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]διά dia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]the world[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2889 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]κόσμος kosmos[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]hateth[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g3404[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]μισέω miseō[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]you.[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g5209[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ὑμᾶς hymas[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
I don't think that the word "world" mentioned in John 15 was one of those that Thayer interpreted as believers only. The word "world" is listed many times in the scriptures and means Kosmos.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#17
#17
krow said:
It says it can mean alot of things... it can refer to the entire world, the ungoldy, and the godly etc...
  1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
  2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
  3. the world, the universe
  4. the circle of the earth, the earth
  5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
  6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
  7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
    1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
  8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
    1. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
    2. of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
Interesting as with anything context must be taken into account, He was preaching to Nicodemus who wasn't saved YET etc correct? He was telling him why He was there and that He was sent into the world to save the ungodly Jews from their sins. Salvation is always first for the Jew then for the Gentile because He came for them first.
Click to expand...
Nicodemus would not have come to Jesus and said "we know thou art a teacher come from God" unless he had already been born of the Spirit, but did not recognize he had been, according to 1 Cor 2:14, which indicates that he was not a carnal man, void of the Spirit. When the interpreter specifically lists certain scriptures, I think it is common sense to accept his interpretation. Don't you?
 
F

forsha

Guest
#18
#18
BradC said:
Not a good point! World is 'kosmos' which refers to all of the human race of ungodly men aliented from God. The word 'kosmos' is never used to refer to believers or to the church. We as believers are called out of the 'kosmos'

John 15:19

[TABLE="class: concTable, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]If[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1487[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]εἰ ei[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]ye were[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2258[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἦν ēn[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]of[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1537[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐκ ek[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2889 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]κόσμος kosmos[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]the world[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2889 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]κόσμος kosmos[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]would[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g302[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἄν an[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]love[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g5368[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]φιλέω phileō[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]his own:[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2398[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἴδιος idios[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1161[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]δέ de[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]because[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g3754[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ὅτι hoti[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]ye are[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2075[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐστέ este[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g3756[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]οὐ ou[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]of[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1537[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐκ ek[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2889 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]κόσμος kosmos[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g235[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἀλλά alla[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]I[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1473[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐγώ egō[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]have chosen[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1586[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐκλέγομαι eklegomai[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]you[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g5209[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ὑμᾶς hymas[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]out of[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1537 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ἐκ ek[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2889 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]κόσμος kosmos[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]therefore[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g5124[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]τοῦτο touto[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]↑[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g1223[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]διά dia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]the world[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g2889 [/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]κόσμος kosmos[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]hateth[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g3404[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]μισέω miseō[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: concffLft"]you.[/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: concff, align: right"]g5209[/TD]
[TD="class: concff"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]ὑμᾶς hymas[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: concffRt, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
I don't think John 15 was one of the scriptures that Thayer listed as "believers only". Many scriptures use the word "world" as kosmos. Not those that are specifically listed.
 
B

BradC

Guest
#19
#19
Galatians2-20 said:
All of the scriptures many use to plead their case concerning "Once Saved Always Saved" do not justify the idea of unconditional eternal security. Such doctrine is nothing more than the carnal assumptions of sinful men. Rather, those scriptures actually are talking about life in the Spirit and God's ability to sanctify those who place their complete reliane on Him and make their home in Him.

Salvation occurs when the Spirit of Christ comes to make His home in us (Rom. 8:11). Sanctification occurs when we make our home in Him (Gal. 5:16). Grace is an open invitation. Faith is the key that opens the door. (Eph. 2:8)
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification..." ~ 1 Thess. 4:3
Click to expand...
This is a terrible statement by C.S. Lewis. Christ is already unbelievable to those who live in unbelief and our bad behavior has no bearing on whether they believe or not. They need conviction from God of living in their own darkness and a revelation of the love of God expressed through the cross. God draws them with his lovingkindness in their heart to that place where He can be trusted and believed upon. Those that live in unbelief and want to stay there use others as an excuse to harden their heart against Jesus Christ and him crucified. Yes, we are to let our light shine before men that they may see our good works, but that is not an assurance of salvation for any man, for man must believe in his heart unto righteousness and that God raised Christ from the dead.

They need to hear it from a preacher and come under conviction. I can't tell you how many times people have shared their testimony and before they came under conviction thought that Christians were a bunch of no good hypocrites. Sometimes I see the world having a more forgiving and forgetful attitude toward failure than some Christians that live all puffed up and you know why, because they know they also fail like others. But we have these professing Christians that love to accuse and point the finger at the behavior of others and even are so bold to cancel out their salvation for them. They do this because they are not merciful like God is and they are not gracious in how they minister to others. They hand pick who they think deserves a break and who doesn't and that makes them partial and a respecter of persons which is evil. They are whisperers and they wink their eye.
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#20
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#20
forsha said:
Salvation is translated to mean "a deliverance." Most of them are talking about a deliverance that we experience here in this earth. The inspired word of God is given, not to tell man how to get saved (delivered) eternally, but to instruct his children how to live their lives while they are here on earth. God chastens those that he loves. He does not chasten those that are not his children, Psalms 73.
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Can you prove that from Scripture?
 
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