How many truly understand this.....

InSpiritInTruth · Feb 27, 2015

Mark 4:11-12[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

joeyruready · Feb 27, 2015

forsha said:

I do not agree with your statement at all. God does give liberally to ALL MEN. You are attributing to God what men are responsible for. As we read through scripture (look up the two words God gives) you will recognize it is not God's lack of giving liberally to all that is the problem but the mind of carnal men that is the problem. The proud can not receive from God because the things of God are foolishness to them. A gift has to be received in order to become useful to those it is given to. The scripture is perfectly true. God does give liberally to ALL MEN even those who do not ask considering, which of us asked God to provide salvation for us? Before we even knew we needed salvation God provided it for us. Yet it is useless to those who will not receive it. God is perfect. God gives perfectly. God gives to all men liberally. All men do not recognize the value of God's gifts. Only those who humble themselves and practice humility are ABLE to receive what our perfectly humble God desires to give to us all. Remember: "God desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth."

joeyruready · Feb 27, 2015

DesiredHaven said:

In respects to asking for wisdom (and asking in faith) being the stipulation behind the same this can be understood as he that comes to God must believe that He is and is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him. The fool says in his heart there is no God.

But wisdom is shown as the principal thing also

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

And the first thing Solomon asks God for

2Ch 1:10 Give me now wisdom and knowledge, that I may go out and come in before this people: for who can judge this thy people, that is so great?

Even as it says,

Prov 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom:

2Ch 1:11 God said to Solomon,

Because this was in thine heart, and thou hast not asked riches, wealth, or honour, nor the life of thine enemies, neither yet hast asked long life; but hast asked wisdom and knowledge for thyself, that thou mayest judge my people, over whom I have made thee king:

And the same was granted and more in Solomons case, but here...

James 4:2 Ye lust, ( riches and wealth ) and have not: ye kill ( the life of your enemies) and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, (((( because ye ask amiss )))) that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Its more the asking amiss there, not many wise, wisdom is definately the principal thing

1Cr 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

Notice the ability to judge and wisdom

2Ch 1:10 Give me now wisdom and knowledge, that I may go out and come in before this people: for who can judge this thy people, that is so great?

James asks,

Who is a wise man "endured with knowledge" among you?

Wisdom is the principal thing

Prov 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom:

and (then) with all **thy getting** get understanding.

Job 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts?

or who hath given understanding to the heart?

Prov 17:17 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.

Dan 9:19 Forasmuch as an excellent spirit, and knowledge, and understanding, interpreting of dreams, and shewing of hard sentences, and dissolving of doubts, were found in the same Daniel,

I snipped that out of another study, but it shows wisdom is principal but in that getting isnt always understanding either, because it does say with all thy getting (in respects to the principal thing) get understanding. Being strengthened from the principal thing through faith, and dependence on the gifts given us of God through the Spirit.

Wisdom is important however, humility comes before wisdom.

DesiredHaven · Feb 27, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

Shows it variously in the other gospels as well, all being incorporated into the whole

Luke 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed

The parable is this

The seed is the word of God.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, (snip)

Even as he said,

Luke 11:28... blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

And likewise this way,

Luke 8:21...My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Again (second verse in)

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it,

((and)) bring forth fruit ((with)) patience.

Romans 5:3 And ((not only so)), but we glory in tribulations also: knowing ((that)) tribulation ((worketh)) patience;

Luke 21:19 In ((your)) patience possess ye your souls. (Romans 12:12) patient in ((tribulation))

And continues on

Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon ((with)) joy receiveth it;

Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Here comes the moving and shaking...

1 Thes 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.

1 Thes 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

They would strengthen them (render them more firm) as to what to expect (what mind should be in them)

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

In respects to the parables as even he was prophesied to speak (and even of the things that were of old)

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them,

Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Whereas even Paul said,

1 Cr 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

These he would so give

Jerm 3:12 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

As he said to Peter

John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me?

Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee.

His sheep hear his voice

Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. (1 Peter 5:2)

Jerm 3:12 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1 Petr 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

That is so beautiful

DesiredHaven · Feb 27, 2015

joeyruready said:

I wouldnt discount humility its just without wisdom you probably wouldnt know you could use a little of it.

Indeed God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble, but if we are asking Him for wisdom we must know we are without it (and in need of it) which is somewhat asking, not only in faith but in humility.

The wisdom that is from above is just that, its meek.

Just as James speaks of the meekness of wisdom, but that which does not descend from above wouldnt really be meek

Just as Christ. He is made unto us the wisdom of God also, and he says learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart

Utah · Feb 27, 2015

joeyruready said:

Humility around here is more rare than gold.

DesiredHaven · Feb 27, 2015

Prov 16:16 How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!

Jeff_56 · Feb 27, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

a 'good' example (for those who receive grace from yahweh) is the news about lekumai(sic).

a 'natural' man, one who trusts flesh/ mankind/ sciens/ sholarship/ can read the never-ending
articles
about the so-called devastating disease and say with almost all the professionals"that is so sad"
and
never realize it is all whitewash, deception and lies. (even moreso about spiritual, as we see shortly)....

a godly man, without trying, can learn the truth, and by prayer and revelation learn the simple truth
and
provide for the person who is not well all that is needed for a couple dollars a day and in a week to six weeks
they recover fully. sometimes it takes longer, especially to regain strength and stamina if there was long time tissue, bone, or other loss.....
but
the truth is most is easy and inexpensive to help, but not for the 'natural' man who understands nothing
except what Yahweh grants from heaven as a gift to each person. simple and true.

and if man cannot understand the simple things that can be seen and felt and tested,
how
could
he possibly think he can understand the invisible wonders ?!

SeaBass · Feb 27, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

But you are avoiding dealing with what I have presented you. I showed FROM THE BIBLE men that were unbelievers that heard the gospel preached and UNDERSTOOD what was preached as proven by their anger at what was preached.

Another:

Mt 21:45 "When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them."
Those that rejected Christ understood what Christ was saying here.

The natural man is one who does not have inspiration and unable to miraculously received inspired words from the Holy Spirit but can understand those inspired words written down in the bible.

InSpiritInTruth · Feb 27, 2015

SeaBass said:

I'm not avoiding anything, I gave you multiple verses of scripture but you have rejected them as Truth.

John 8:42-47[SUP]42 [/SUP]Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[SUP]47 [/SUP]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

They heard the sound of the words, but yet they still could not receive them as truth, not hearing, not understanding, and not believing what the Spirit of Truth is saying. (uncircumcised in heart and ears) deaf, dumb, blind guides.

Grandpa · Feb 28, 2015

SeaBass said:

But you are avoiding dealing with what I have presented you. I showed FROM THE BIBLE men that were unbelievers that heard the gospel preached and UNDERSTOOD what was preached as proven by their anger at what was preached.

Another:

Mt 21:45 "When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them."
Those that rejected Christ understood what Christ was saying here.

The natural man is one who does not have inspiration and unable to miraculously received inspired words from the Holy Spirit but can understand those inspired words written down in the bible.

Its one thing to realize that you've been insulted.

Its quite another to understand the gospel.

SeaBass · Feb 28, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

I'm not avoiding anything, I gave you multiple verses of scripture but you have rejected them as Truth.

John 8:42-47[SUP]42 [/SUP]Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[SUP]47 [/SUP]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

They heard the sound of the words, but yet they still could not receive them as truth, not hearing, not understanding, and not believing what the Spirit of Truth is saying. (uncircumcised in heart and ears) deaf, dumb, blind guides.

I showed passages from Acts where lost unforgiven sinners understood what was being preached to them as shown by their anger. In Acts 2 lost sinners understood Peter's sermon, obeyed it and added to the church. This is what you are ignoring.

SeaBass · Feb 28, 2015

Grandpa said:

They would have to understand Jesus' words to understand they were being 'insulted' as you say. No doubt, the natural man can understand what is being said to him. WHy did Christ give the great commission to preach to the lost if the lost could not possibly understand it?

Jeff_56 · Feb 28, 2015

that was what the father told him to do.

but even the disciples did not understand it. not until after yahshua breathed on them and opened their minds/ gave them understanding from the father...

not just the lost, but even the believers cannot understand anything about the good news/ truth/ until the father grants it from heaven.

SeaBass · Feb 28, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

If this is true, then;

--it made no sense for Jesus to give the great commission for the gospel to be preached to every creature when they could not understand it

--it puts moral culpability upon God for if one cannot understand the gospel and is therefore lost, he is lost due to God's failure to grant him the ability to understand the gospel.

--how can one be a believer and not understand the gospel??? One cannot believe something he does not understand /does not know about.

InSpiritInTruth · Feb 28, 2015

Not all have ears to hear (comprehend, perceive, understand, receive, believe)

Matthew 11:15
He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 13:9
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 13:43
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Mark 4:9
And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Mark 4:23
If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Mark 7:16
If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Luke 8:8
And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luke 14:35
It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

joeyruready · Mar 1, 2015

Do you underestand it? If so, can you please explain it to us?

InSpiritInTruth said:

He didn't ask you to make him understand, HE asked you to explain yourself. I have a major problem with your response.
By your explanation none of us are responsible to share anything we have learned with others. The truth is, God wants us to give freely as we have received freely. I am continually sharing things with others. Some do not understand or are unwilling to accept but I continue to share. It isn't my job to MAKE anyone (understand). IT is my job to love others and part of loving others is sharing everything God has given me with them. We have no control over whether or not any person will receive what we give but denying to answer a question someone has asked of you and saying instead only God can give you understanding? Do you really believe that is a loving and Godly response? I don't.

thecreationtutor · Mar 1, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

Isn't he talking about the Pharasee's, Scribes, and Saducees - in effect they should already know what Jesus is saying about Himself and the Father - but because of their hard hearts - Parables are used to come aside and teach spiritual truth, that the previous groups miss out -

and He's not talking in a way to block people, or keep people out of the kingdom of heaven - even his apostles didn't understand sometimes

InSpiritInTruth · Mar 1, 2015

joeyruready said:

I've been sharing and explaining myself in this post with many verses of scripture to prove my points, and do not view my response as being unloving, but straightforward and to the point. But there are times when I believe a person is not being truly sincere in their line of questioning, and this was one of those times. Sorry if you have a major problem with my response, but I'm not here to seek honor from men, the Lord knows my heart.

InSpiritInTruth · Mar 1, 2015

thecreationtutor said:

The Lord knows the hearts of all men, as He also gives eyes to see and ears to hear His spiritual words to those whom He chooses. A man cannot even come to Christ without the Father first drawing him to Him.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

How many truly understand this.....

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