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No, the passages in Hebrews in the KJV that says he was "tempted" is actually in reference to being "tested." You cannot tempt God, even if you put a cloak (or coat) of flesh that desires sin upon Him. The core essence and personality and mind of Christ was all God and not a human being. Christ did not possess the mind of a human or another human soul. Besides, no temptation in the flesh has any power over God. It's just not possible. God cannot be tempted under any cirumstance (Even if His Omniscience was suppressed).
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But Christ WAS tempted by Satan.
You seem to not understand who Christ was. He was God and man.
God also cannot die, and yet Christ died.
You can't use a verse about God not being tempted, and place it as relative to Christ, who was obviously tempted... but overcame! And such temptation did not harm His Perfection, because Christ had purity of heart.
Perhaps you don't understand temptation. Because Christ was assuredly tempted, as recorded in the Gospels, and affirmed in the Epistles.
You seem to not understand who Christ was. He was God and man.
God also cannot die, and yet Christ died.
You can't use a verse about God not being tempted, and place it as relative to Christ, who was obviously tempted... but overcame! And such temptation did not harm His Perfection, because Christ had purity of heart.
Perhaps you don't understand temptation. Because Christ was assuredly tempted, as recorded in the Gospels, and affirmed in the Epistles.
Again, this is the Early Modern English (1600's English) that confuses a lot of folks who read the King James. Again, tempted means tested even when he was being confronted by the devil in Matthew 4. The word "tested" (Instead of "tempted) are used in the Modern Translations like Common English Bible, the Expanded Bible, and the Message Bible.
Greek mythology is filled with images of gods taking on a form in order to deceive humans.
Jesus was not a deceiver. He really was a man. And God. None of His sufferings or temptations were false or cheapened by His Deity. He cast off that power. He put on the Spirit, which is available to us also.
His Perfection was through such suffering,
as without a challenge, what is the victory worth?
It was a true challenge, and resulted in the true Victory, because He proved Himself. This is why He is Worthy!
He cast off His birthright,
and then re-earned it!
Glory to the Lamb slain before the foundations of the earth were laid! That was His destiny, and it is what He attained!
Jesus was not a deceiver. He really was a man. And God. None of His sufferings or temptations were false or cheapened by His Deity. He cast off that power. He put on the Spirit, which is available to us also.
His Perfection was through such suffering,
as without a challenge, what is the victory worth?
It was a true challenge, and resulted in the true Victory, because He proved Himself. This is why He is Worthy!
He cast off His birthright,
and then re-earned it!
Glory to the Lamb slain before the foundations of the earth were laid! That was His destiny, and it is what He attained!
And this is a Scriptural position about the difference between test and tempt.
Not whatever philosophy Jason has. I assume it is the AG/Pentacostal one, about testing being external and temptation being internal.
Nonsense. Human contrived reasoning based on extrabiblical definitions.
Just because someone preaches loud, don't make them right.
Not whatever philosophy Jason has. I assume it is the AG/Pentacostal one, about testing being external and temptation being internal.
Nonsense. Human contrived reasoning based on extrabiblical definitions.
Just because someone preaches loud, don't make them right.
J
Peace My friends, thank you
So if I may, as I understand it from these messages,
Our Lord was God but still needed to learn obedience
Our Lord was man so had to be perfected but at the same time was also sinless and perfect
Our Lord can hold you when you fall and make you anew but he is unable to guarentee our Salvation
All good works come from above but you still have to attain to Works
Our Lord is a Priest but also God and thus Worships himself on our behalf
As Our Lord is the author of all Good Works then James is Exhorting Jesus to do more of it!
God is not the author of confusion but canon is allowed to be confused
You are all polite and gracious. I thank you for that.
I know I am clearly in error. I will work to rectify this.
Blessings to everyone.
So if I may, as I understand it from these messages,
Our Lord was God but still needed to learn obedience
Our Lord was man so had to be perfected but at the same time was also sinless and perfect
Our Lord can hold you when you fall and make you anew but he is unable to guarentee our Salvation
All good works come from above but you still have to attain to Works
Our Lord is a Priest but also God and thus Worships himself on our behalf
As Our Lord is the author of all Good Works then James is Exhorting Jesus to do more of it!
God is not the author of confusion but canon is allowed to be confused
You are all polite and gracious. I thank you for that.
I know I am clearly in error. I will work to rectify this.
Blessings to everyone.
K
The book of Hebrews and James does not contradict what Paul said in Romans, nor any of Paul's other epistles.
The problem that arises in these studies is that people need to learn to separate when the scriptures are speaking of works.
For there is 2 styles of works that is being spoke of in scripture; 1) Is when it is speaking of self works to earn salvation, which is wrong and what Romans is referring to in grace vs. works. 2) Is when it is speaking of righteous works done from the fruits of the Spirit that every true believer will show, which is what James is speaking on.
Apostle James is confirming everything that the Lord Jesus said in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
As for Hebrews it is not defending or saying the OT standards still apply, but what we must understand is that under the new covenant their are still standards that believers are to uphold. Even Apostle Paul shows in Romans 13 that by walking in love will uphold the 10 Commandments as well as all the other commands the Lord gave. For the 10 Commandments are looked at as both God's moral laws and written Mosaic ordinances, and only the side with the written ordinances was done away and not the moral aspect...
The fact that one can lose their salvation is mentioned all throughout the NT as I have found no less then 25 scriptures that refute OSAS theology. This is a new context that has only existed in recent centuries of the church, as the first 4 centuries this was not thought. James gives a clear understanding on this in 5:19-20, and Paul multiple times shows we must continue in the faith to receive salvation....
J
I thank you for your reply, my friend
So are you suggesting we are partly or wholy responsible for our Salvation?
If partly then Grace becomes a confusing doctrine. Also are you saying that Our Lords hand is shortened and unable to stand?
It would appear from the lessons of Paul, Job, Jonah, David, Samual, Sampson and the other Prophets that Gods,will be done. Ads Our,Lord said ..it is hard to kick against the pricks.
If Salvatipn is conditional then the Law stil applies?
So are you suggesting we are partly or wholy responsible for our Salvation?
If partly then Grace becomes a confusing doctrine. Also are you saying that Our Lords hand is shortened and unable to stand?
It would appear from the lessons of Paul, Job, Jonah, David, Samual, Sampson and the other Prophets that Gods,will be done. Ads Our,Lord said ..it is hard to kick against the pricks.
If Salvatipn is conditional then the Law stil applies?
F
For example He 'learned obedience' in Mt 3:13-17 when He got baptized
To be the Captain of our salvation, He experienced the same things we do. Mt 10:25
'Salvation' is a broad word. It depends on its context. It does not refer always to 'deliverance from eternal condemnation.'
Hebrews especially, with its 5 or so big warning paragraphs, deals with believers' (my---our) reward......or punishment.
Not with our eternal state! In fact, that Makes Christ the Guarantor and Guarantee: All His children Will progress from
children to sons, beginners to finishers. Since salvation is not only the ticket, lol, but also the process
The real works are Christ in you, working, John 5:36; 14:10;
cf the Father who abode in Him does His works
I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by Me
Paul knew that He who has begun a good work in us.........will finish it, unto the day of the Lord,
in Philippians 1:6
Lol, not only is the canon perfect............it's more perfect even then you or I can imagine.
Placing Hebrews Before James as it does, 'contrasting' their authors (if you get what I mean), just
as Acts does, yet both are slaves of the same Lord and do not contradict.
To be the Captain of our salvation, He experienced the same things we do. Mt 10:25
'Salvation' is a broad word. It depends on its context. It does not refer always to 'deliverance from eternal condemnation.'
Hebrews especially, with its 5 or so big warning paragraphs, deals with believers' (my---our) reward......or punishment.
Not with our eternal state! In fact, that Makes Christ the Guarantor and Guarantee: All His children Will progress from
children to sons, beginners to finishers. Since salvation is not only the ticket, lol, but also the process
The real works are Christ in you, working, John 5:36; 14:10;
cf the Father who abode in Him does His works
I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by Me
Paul knew that He who has begun a good work in us.........will finish it, unto the day of the Lord,
in Philippians 1:6
Lol, not only is the canon perfect............it's more perfect even then you or I can imagine.
Placing Hebrews Before James as it does, 'contrasting' their authors (if you get what I mean), just
as Acts does, yet both are slaves of the same Lord and do not contradict.
F
Because it can?
Scripture can 'do' anything it wants. God can do what He wants.
What God does, by definition, is perfect. Scripture.............in Acts (Paul)
quotes Greek poets. In sharing the good news with the Greek populace.
If you're thinking that that either makes those poets---all their works---Scripture:
it does not. Just like Macabees (the rest of Macabees, lol) isn't.
Right?
(For my help: what verse in Hebrews are you meaning?)
Scripture can 'do' anything it wants. God can do what He wants.
What God does, by definition, is perfect. Scripture.............in Acts (Paul)
quotes Greek poets. In sharing the good news with the Greek populace.
If you're thinking that that either makes those poets---all their works---Scripture:
it does not. Just like Macabees (the rest of Macabees, lol) isn't.
Right?
(For my help: what verse in Hebrews are you meaning?)
J
Hebrews 11 35 is a reference to 2 Maccabees 7.
You state
Jesus learned obedience through baptism?
He fulfilled all righteousness, but invented Baptism (lesson)?
Jesus experienced the same things we do?
Sin, Lust, Fear of God, Coveting, Doubt? Repentance?
Salvation is Clearly lost by a SAVED soul in Hebrews
Your quote of Paul.. My point exactly so why the warnings of Damnation or exhortation of false works as if Our Lord will be indebted to us.
Canon is Perfect?
Nonsense, the Canon is a translation of a translation. The KJV copied the Wycliffe and Tyndale, modern versions vary and all scholars know of added verses eg the end of Marks Gospel, The pool of Salome verses in John. It is impossible to harmonize all of the resurrection accounts as given.
I understand you are a Baptist. Peace to you. That is why I do not adhere to Religiosity which blinkers my studies.
It is written they shall be taught of God.
I wish you well but I will politely disagree with you, but thank you.
You state
Jesus learned obedience through baptism?
He fulfilled all righteousness, but invented Baptism (lesson)?
Jesus experienced the same things we do?
Sin, Lust, Fear of God, Coveting, Doubt? Repentance?
Salvation is Clearly lost by a SAVED soul in Hebrews
Your quote of Paul.. My point exactly so why the warnings of Damnation or exhortation of false works as if Our Lord will be indebted to us.
Canon is Perfect?
Nonsense, the Canon is a translation of a translation. The KJV copied the Wycliffe and Tyndale, modern versions vary and all scholars know of added verses eg the end of Marks Gospel, The pool of Salome verses in John. It is impossible to harmonize all of the resurrection accounts as given.
I understand you are a Baptist. Peace to you. That is why I do not adhere to Religiosity which blinkers my studies.
It is written they shall be taught of God.
I wish you well but I will politely disagree with you, but thank you.
I realize that your debate is with the Canon,
but your rationale is based on your own preconceived ideas about who Christ is and was, and what salvation is.
If you are unwilling to submit to the Scriptures, then there can be no debate, as all valid proofs in such a debate should come from Scripture itself.
I'm not sure your age in Christ, or your security in Him, and thus it is even more difficult to discuss these things.
For all I know, you could be a 17yr old, rebelling against his parents beliefs.
Or you could be a 70yr old, who has thought this way his entire life.
One would deal with each very differently.
Care to share your testimony before continuing?
but your rationale is based on your own preconceived ideas about who Christ is and was, and what salvation is.
If you are unwilling to submit to the Scriptures, then there can be no debate, as all valid proofs in such a debate should come from Scripture itself.
I'm not sure your age in Christ, or your security in Him, and thus it is even more difficult to discuss these things.
For all I know, you could be a 17yr old, rebelling against his parents beliefs.
Or you could be a 70yr old, who has thought this way his entire life.
One would deal with each very differently.
Care to share your testimony before continuing?
No. The Scriptures say God cannot be tempted by sin. Jesus was 100% God on the inside. He had no human soul and here merely wore a coat of flesh from Adam. Whether a man was tempting him or flesh upon him it would not change anything. He could never be truly tempted because He is God. For Jesus knew no sin. In order to be tempted, you have to have a desire for that sin. In other words, I cannot tempt my computer to laugh because it does not have that capacity (Anymore than God has the capacity to ever sin).