Harmonizing the Books of Hebrews and James

[SolidGround]

To all who say that we are saved by faith alone, both James and Romans tell us that we need to show our faith in some manner to be saved. In Romans it tells us that we are justified by faith, but we must profess it to be saved. Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. From the NIV

Actions display Faith.
Faith is displayed by actions.
There is no such thing as actionless Faith.
BUT, it is the Faith that saves, not the actions.

Though a video clip displays a child laughing, it is not the video that made the child laugh.
Though you see smoke rising in the sky, telling you that there is a fire below it,
the smoke did not start the fire, nor does it keep it lit.

 

[Jason0047]

You seem to misunderstand the need of the Resurrection.
The soul includes the body.
Christ had human emotions. A human soul. He was indwelt with the fullness of God. The soul does not indwell a body. A spirit does that. Your assumptions are not accurate.
The God you make, is not the God of the Bible. Please reconsider who makes Truth.

No, a soul can exist in a human body and in a spirit. In fact, God is even said to have a soul in the Bible.

• Leviticus 26:11
  And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
• Leviticus 26:30
  And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
• Isaiah 42:1
  Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
• Zechariah 11:8
  Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
• Matthew 12:18
  Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
• Hebrews 10:38
  Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

 

[SolidGround]

No, a soul can exist in a human body and in a spirit. In fact, God is even said to have a soul in the Bible.

• Leviticus 26:11
  And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
• Leviticus 26:30
  And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
• Isaiah 42:1
  Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
• Zechariah 11:8
  Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
• Matthew 12:18
  Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
• Hebrews 10:38
  Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Where is the logical connection between the two points you are making?
Point 1 is unproven,
Point 2 is proven, yet not related.

Further, you still don't understand the soul. It is the very uttermost of the individual. It is their truest identity. Themselves.

 

[SolidGround]

Do you assume the soul is basically a second spirit? I just don't understand what you think a soul is.

 

[Jason0047]

And here is the soul of Christ shown clearly:
John 12:27-28
How is the soul of God torn between a physical desire and the spiritual purpose?
Because our Lord can actually relate to us! Because He knows our struggles, and overcame them!!
Do you not see and feel the power in this? It is the power of His Name. The Son of Man. The Son of God.
It proves our ability to overcome, because He had the same tools we have been given!

He cast off Deity, and re-earned it!

In John 12:27, Jesus is still one with the Father and is not separated from Him. Jesus is still the second person of the Godhead. However, Christ is distinct from the Father and His Omniscience was suppressed. He felt trouble in his soul when he was about to take the cup that had all our sins within it. He could not see all the good it was going to do, but Jesus always did what was pleasing and good in God the Father's sight. This was not some carnal cry, but this was Christ's divine soul recoiling a bit from all the sin he was to bear in his body so as to be our substitute.

As for Christ casting off His deity: Nothing could be further from the truth.

Jesus had power. He said he was going to raise up his temple (body) three days later. Jesus says that He can give life just as the Father can give life. Jesus said that where two or three are gathered in his name (He is among them). Jesus also held all things together by the word of his power when he was on the cross. Jesus had the power to forgive sin and provide eternal life.

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Mark 2:7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

John 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

 

[SolidGround]

When my soul hurts, all of me hurts. My body, my heart, my mind, my spirit.
When my spirit hurts, my flesh can ignore it... causing sin.

 

[Jason0047]

Do you assume the soul is basically a second spirit? I just don't understand what you think a soul is.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97092-human-soul-what.html#post1641171

 

[Crustyone]

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. This is from Romans 10:10. We don't have to do much of a work, but a work is required to be saved, the work of professing to others.

 

[Jason0047]

Did Christ work miracles by His own power, or by the power of the Spirit?
You should know this, as it is clear in Scripture that He did not use His own power.

In this same question, when Christ resisted sin, and pursued righteousness,
did He do so by His own power, or by the Spirit?

He gave up such advantage, humbled Himself, and submitted.
He lived as the very image of God
which the 1st Adam was created to be,
with no advantage over Adam,
except the revelation given in the Word and through the Spirit,
also given to us.

Yes. We can live as Christ, because He has shown the Way.
To deny His true humanity, is to deny our ability to follow Him, because we are not God.

While Christ did miracles by the Father, and while Christ was taught the Scriptures by the Spirit, He also still was the Son of God and had power. He merely suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience (i.e. to have all knowledge) so as to be like a man.

 

[SolidGround]

In John 12:27, Jesus is still one with the Father and is not separated from Him. Jesus is still the second person of the Godhead. However, Christ is distinct from the Father and His Omniscience was suppressed. He felt trouble in his soul when he was about to take the cup that had all our sins within it. He could not see all the good it was going to do, but Jesus always did what was pleasing and good in God the Father's sight. This was not some carnal cry, but this was Christ's divine soul recoiling a bit from all the sin he was to bear in his body so as to be our substitute.

As for Christ casting off His deity: Nothing could be further from the truth.

Jesus had power. He said he was going to raise up his temple (body) three days later. Jesus says that He can give life just as the Father can give life. Jesus said that where two or three are gathered in his name (He is among them). Jesus also held all things together by the word of his power when he was on the cross. Jesus had the power to forgive sin and provide eternal life.

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Mark 2:7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

John 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

So now Christ's troubled soul was out of lack of knowledge?! That it was the soul of God, troubled because He did not know the outcome of His actions?!

Was His soul human or God or both? The "trouble" you describe is far less God than the Jesus I know.

You think Christ did not know the "good it was going to do"? Utter blasphemy. He was not blind to the Scriptures!


As for His Power and Name,
these are the Spirit, and the Lord.
It is by The Name and by The Spirit that these things are done.
His words are not the words of man, but the words of the Spirit, the very Word of God. Do you think He spoke these things and claims of Himself, or of the Spirit within Him?

 

[Jason0047]

So now Christ's troubled soul was out of lack of knowledge?! That it was the soul of God, troubled because He did nit know the outcome of His actions?!

Was His soul human or God or both? The "trouble" you describe is far less God than the Jesus I know.

You think Christ did not know the "good it was going to do"? Utter blasphemy. He was not blind to the Scriptures!

No. You misunderstood what I said. I didn't say Christ did not know the outcome of his future actions in going to the cross. I know He knew about what was going to happen to happen to Him. What I am saying is that He did not have full knowledge of everything during his Earthly ministry (i.e. Omniscience). For Christ said he did not know the day or hour of his return (But only the Father knew).

 

[SolidGround]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97092-human-soul-what.html#post1641171

Verseless conjecture. Great philosophy. Not of God or His Word.

 

[Jason0047]

Verseless conjecture. Great philosophy. Not of God or His Word.

I provided verses in the other post on the human soul. If you were to click on the link you can also check out the verses on the spirit, too.

 

[SolidGround]

While Christ did miracles by the Father, and while Christ was taught the Scriptures by the Spirit, He also still was the Son of God and had power. He merely suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience (i.e. to have all knowledge) so as to be like a man.

It was not suppressed. That phrase is nit in Scripture.
It says "cast off" and "emptied".

 

[SolidGround]

No. You misunderstood what I said. I didn't say Christ did not know the outcome of his future actions in going to the cross. I know He knew about what was going to happen to happen to Him. What I am saying is that He did not have full knowledge of everything during his Earthly ministry (i.e. Omniscience). For Christ said he did not know the day or hour of his return (But only the Father knew).

Then explain why His SOUL was troubled.

 

[SolidGround]

I provided verses in the other post on the human soul. If you were to click on the link you can also check out the verses on the spirit, too.

I clicked the link, hence my comment about it being verseless, as the whole diagram and philosophy set had no Scriptural basis, and none was provided in explaining the diagram.

 

[Jason0047]

It was not suppressed. That phrase is nit in Scripture.
It says "cast off" and "emptied".

It says He humbled Himself and became a servant. Besides, we know Christ is not stripped of His divine attributes. I already provided plenty of verses in my previous post showing that this was not the case.

 

[SolidGround]

It says He humbled Himself and became a servant. Besides, we know Christ is not stripped of His divine attributes. I already provided plenty of verses in my previous post showing that this was not the case.

No. Those verses prove that He had the Spirit of God, and that He came from God. Nothing about retaining divine attributes.

He was not "stripped" of divine attributes. He willingly humbled Himdself, emptied Himself of them, and cast them off.

 

[Jason0047]

I clicked the link, hence my comment about it being verseless, as the whole diagram and philosophy set had no Scriptural basis, and none was provided in explaining the diagram.

I was talking about this link that I posted before (within this thread):

Spirit and Soul - Watchman Nee

 

[Jason0047]

No. Those verses prove that He had the Spirit of God, and that He came from God. Nothing about retaining divine attributes.

No. You obviously didn't read them then. Go back and read them. There is no way anyone can say that those verses are referencing just the Spirit. In other words, I want you to offer a commentary on those verses and please tell me what you think they are saying.