Who is for Israel?

[crossnote]

Then many of the people of the land became Jews, because fear of the Jews fell upon them.
Esther 8:17

No where was there forced conversions going on...

Esther 8:11-17 (KJV)
11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey,
12 Upon one day in all the provinces of king Ahasuerus, namely, upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar.
13 The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, and that the Jews should be ready against that day to avenge themselves on their enemies.
14 So the posts that rode upon mules and camels went out, being hastened and pressed on by the king's commandment. And the decree was given at Shushan the palace.
15 And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel of blue and white, and with a great crown of gold, and with a garment of fine linen and purple: and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad.
16 The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour.
17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

 

[valiant]

No where was there forced conversions going on...

Esther 8:11-17 (KJV)
11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey,
12 Upon one day in all the provinces of king Ahasuerus, namely, upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar.
13 The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, and that the Jews should be ready against that day to avenge themselves on their enemies.
14 So the posts that rode upon mules and camels went out, being hastened and pressed on by the king's commandment. And the decree was given at Shushan the palace.
15 And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel of blue and white, and with a great crown of gold, and with a garment of fine linen and purple: and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad.
16 The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour.
17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

But the Maccabees did force people to become Jews. That is an historical fact.

 

[Rockbysea]

No where was there forced conversions going on...

Esther 8:11-17 (KJV)
11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey,
12 Upon one day in all the provinces of king Ahasuerus, namely, upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar.
13 The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, and that the Jews should be ready against that day to avenge themselves on their enemies.
14 So the posts that rode upon mules and camels went out, being hastened and pressed on by the king's commandment. And the decree was given at Shushan the palace.
15 And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel of blue and white, and with a great crown of gold, and with a garment of fine linen and purple: and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad.
16 The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour.
17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

75,000 people were slaughtered creating a state of terror…. The terror of the Jews forced many to convert… they didn’t need to proselytize. Also notice: it was the religion that determined who was a Jew not ethnicity otherwise how could many people make a decision to “become” Jews? This shows that it was not an “ethic” cleansing that Haman was attempting but a religious cleansing because of the disrespect that the king’s servants and Haman perceived towards a high ranking state official from a member of a religious group. For Mordecai would not obey the king’s command to bow and pay homage to his highest-ranking official because “he was a Jew”. In other words: it was against his religion.

Now it’s clear that this religion at the time of Mordecai was not the same religion that was given to the children of Israel by God through His servant Moses. To go on a rampage slaughtering 75,000 people who were forced to obey a written decree sealed with the king’s own signet ring does not have an aura of justice but of vengeful slaughter. Failure to obey a king’s decree would have resulted in sever punishment… most likely death.

Where in the laws given by God through His servant Moses does it authorize Israel to give their daughters over to the pagans in marriage, as was the case with Esther? Mordecai certainly didn’t try to stop it but encouraged it and even instructed her not to reveal her people or her family. Seems that Mordecai was using his niece to surreptitiously infiltrate the highest level of office in the greatest kingdom on earth at that time. And it was successful, for “the fear of Mordecai fell upon them. For Mordecai was great in the king’s palace, and his fame spread throughout all the provinces; for this man Mordecai became increasingly prominent.”

And where in the law given by God through Moses does any Israelite have the authority to establish feast days throughout every generation as Mordecai did by creating the Feast of Purim?

These were Jews alright, the same Jews Christ had to deal with when he said, “Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.” They would have conspired to kill Him during the time of Mordecai also.

 

[Is]

75,000 people were slaughtered creating a state of terror….

Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish,...all the power of the people and provinces that would assault them

The terror of the Jews forced many to convert… they didn’t need to proselytize. Also notice: it was the religion that determined who was a Jew not ethnicity otherwise how could many people make a decision to “become” Jews? This shows that it was not an “ethic” cleansing that Haman was attempting but a religious cleansing because of the disrespect that the king’s servants and Haman perceived towards a high ranking state official from a member of a religious group. For Mordecai would not obey the king’s command to bow and pay homage to his highest-ranking official because “he was a Jew”. In other words: it was against his religion.

Now it’s clear that this religion at the time of Mordecai was not the same religion that was given to the children of Israel by God through His servant Moses. To go on a rampage slaughtering 75,000 people who were forced to obey a written decree sealed with the king’s own signet ring does not have an aura of justice but of vengeful slaughter. Failure to obey a king’s decree would have resulted in sever punishment… most likely death.

Where in the laws given by God through His servant Moses does it authorize Israel to give their daughters over to the pagans in marriage, as was the case with Esther? Mordecai certainly didn’t try to stop it but encouraged it and even instructed her not to reveal her people or her family. Seems that Mordecai was using his niece to surreptitiously infiltrate the highest level of office in the greatest kingdom on earth at that time. And it was successful, for “the fear of Mordecai fell upon them. For Mordecai was great in the king’s palace, and his fame spread throughout all the provinces; for this man Mordecai became increasingly prominent.”

And where in the law given by God through Moses does any Israelite have the authority to establish feast days throughout every generation as Mordecai did by creating the Feast of Purim?

These were Jews alright, the same Jews Christ had to deal with when he said, “Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.” They would have conspired to kill Him during the time of Mordecai also.

 

[Rockbysea]

Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish,...all the power of the people and provinces that would assault them

Nothing like true Jewish justice Bolshevik style: “I think this gentile is going to assault me so I’m going to destroy him.” This is the kind of justice that will be inflicted upon the gentiles, especially Christians, if the Jews should ever accomplish complete world dominance…. An example of that kind of Jewish justice inflicted upon the gentiles (in this case many orthodox Christians) was Bolshevism. At least during the time of Mordecai a gentile could convert and become a Jew and save his butt…. This is not the case anymore because today a goy (gentile) can become a Jew no more than a pig become a man.

 

[Is]

Nothing like true Jewish justice Bolshevik style: “I think this gentile is going to assault me so I’m going to destroy him.” This is the kind of justice that will be inflicted upon the gentiles, especially Christians, if the Jews should ever accomplish complete world dominance…. An example of that kind of Jewish justice inflicted upon the gentiles (in this case many orthodox Christians) was Bolshevism. At least during the time of Mordecai a gentile could convert and become a Jew and save his butt…. This is not the case anymore because today a goy (gentile) can become a Jew no more than a pig become a man.

And Haman said unto the king Ahasuerus, There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of thy kingdom; and their laws are diverse from all people; neither keep they the kings laws: therefore it is not for the kings profit to suffer them. If it please the king let it be written...

that they may be destroyed:

 

[Rockbysea]

And Haman said unto the king Ahasuerus, There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of thy kingdom; and their laws are diverse from all people; neither keep they the kings laws: therefore it is not for the kings profit to suffer them. If it please the king let it be written...

that they may be destroyed:

"In the name of King Ahasuerus it was written, and sealed with the king’s signet ring. ...And the letters were sent by couriers into all the king’s provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to annihilate all the Jews, A copy of the document was to be issued as law in every province, being published for all people, that they should be ready for that day. ...and the decree was proclaimed in Shushan the citadel."

So why did the Jews go out on a murder rampage killing 75,000 people who were about to be forced by the king's decree to destroy them which they would have had no choice but to obey? They also killed Haman's ten sons which is against God's command through Moses that the children should not be held responsible for the sins of the parents but a man's sins should fall on his own head. "And in Shushan the citadel the Jews killed and destroyed five hundred men." This seems strange because when "the decree was proclaimed in Shushan the citadel"... "the city of Shushan was perplexed." It didn't seem like the gentiles of the land were overjoyed by the news of this decree to kill all the Jews. No.... but instead of just killing Haman the Jews merely took advantage of this opportunity to murder all those that they perceived hated them. The reason these people hated them was probably for the same reason Haman hated them: because they disrespected and looked down upon their captors even though their lives were spared after being captured and they didn't appreciate the privileges they were given to freely practice their religion. And of course they did what they are still good at doing today: never assimilating into the nations they inhabit and slithering their way through deceit, as Mordecai did through Esther, into the highest seats of government and using the power of that government against their enemies. These were they same rotten bunch Christ encountered.... "a brood of vipers."

 

[Is]

"In the name of King Ahasuerus it was written, and sealed with the king’s signet ring. ...And the letters were sent by couriers into all the king’s provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to annihilate all the Jews, A copy of the document was to be issued as law in every province, being published for all people, that they should be ready for that day. ...and the decree was proclaimed in Shushan the citadel."

So why did the Jews go out on a murder rampage killing 75,000 people who were about to be forced by the king's decree to destroy them which they would have had no choice but to obey?

75,000 people who were about to be forced by the king's decree to destroy them

I asume you are talking about the Persians being forced by the kings initial decree to destroy the Jews.

So why did the Jews go out on a murder rampage

And why do you insist on calling it a "murderous rampage" when in the kings own words, they were told "to gather themselves together, and to stand for their lives". It's pretty obvious that Haman had insighted a riot against the Jews.

which they would have had no choice but to obey?

That's total nonsense, they were induced by money because Haman said "I will pay ten thousand talents of silver to the hands of those that have the charge of the business,"

They also killed Haman's ten sons which is against God's command through Moses that the children should not be held responsible for the sins of the parents but a man's sins should fall on his own head.

It's like the saying goes, "sometimes the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree", do you honestly think they would have dropped the matter?

God said the iniquity of the fathers would be visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. Ex.20:5 Hate my people and you hate me.

"And in Shushan the citadel the Jews killed and destroyed five hundred men." This seems strange because when "the decree was proclaimed in Shushan the citadel"... "the city of Shushan was perplexed." It didn't seem like the gentiles of the land were overjoyed by the news of this decree to kill all the Jews. No.... but instead of just killing Haman the Jews merely took advantage of this opportunity to murder all those that they perceived hated them.

Again pure nonsense...And in every province, withersoever the kings commandment and his decree came, there was great mourning among the Jews,

They knew what was coming and didn't act on anything until the king told them to stand for their lives.

The reason these people hated them was probably for the same reason Haman hated them: because they disrespected and looked down upon their captors even though their lives were spared after being captured and they didn't appreciate the privileges they were given to freely practice their religion. And of course they did what they are still good at doing today: never assimilating into the nations

Israel was to stay seperate from the nations, just as Christians are to seperate from non-believers:

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye seperate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will recieve you. 2Cor.6:17 - Isaiah 52:11

they inhabit and slithering their way through deceit, as Mordecai did through Esther, into the highest seats of government and using the power of that government against their enemies. These were they same rotten bunch Christ encountered.... "a brood of vipers."

I don't have anything else to say on the subject.

 

[Is]

Bump this.

 

[Rockbysea]

I asume you are talking about the Persians being forced by the kings initial decree to destroy the Jews.



And why do you insist on calling it a "murderous rampage" when in the kings own words, they were told "to gather themselves together, and to stand for their lives". It's pretty obvious that Haman had insighted a riot against the Jews.



That's total nonsense, they were induced by money because Haman said "I will pay ten thousand talents of silver to the hands of those that have the charge of the business,"




It's like the saying goes, "sometimes the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree", do you honestly think they would have dropped the matter?

God said the iniquity of the fathers would be visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. Ex.20:5 Hate my people and you hate me.



Again pure nonsense...And in every province, withersoever the kings commandment and his decree came, there was great mourning among the Jews,

They knew what was coming and didn't act on anything until the king told them to stand for their lives.




Israel was to stay seperate from the nations, just as Christians are to seperate from non-believers:

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye seperate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will recieve you. 2Cor.6:17 - Isaiah 52:11




I don't have anything else to say on the subject.

That is ridiculous to say that they would have disobeyed a royal decree and monetary incentive was used so they would obey it. You lost all credibility.

And you pulled Exodus 5 out of context… God was referring to the children of Israel should they disobey Him not God executing judgment upon gentiles through a bunch of lawless Jews who give their daughters to pagans for political gain and establish their own customs.

Being separate religiously and disrespecting the authorities that could have destroyed you are different matters.

 

[JimmieD]

Toddler killed, relatives injured in 'price tage' attack - CNN.com

Is it justified?

 

[waynebo59]

Everyone seems to be focused on what Jewish people did in the old testament.
That was a long time ago,we had slaves 150 yrs ago,let it go.
Jewish people are trying to have their little 7000 sq mile country,counties in some states are way bigger. They are surrounded by their enemies just like the bible said would happen.
Yea I support them because they are the Fathers chosen people as a nation.
Through their faults we were given a shot at salvation,thank them.
For if the Father will cut them off he will surely cut you off.

 

[Is]

Toddler killed, relatives injured in 'price tage' attack - CNN.com

Is it justified?

After reading the article it's pretty obvious it was considered terrorism.

 

[valiant]

Everyone seems to be focused on what Jewish people did in the old testament.

But they are still in unbelief and rejecting the Messiah.

That was a long time ago,we had slaves 150 yrs ago,let it go.

Sooooooo? I certainly didn't LOL But I agree you deserve to be condemned for it.

Jewish people are trying to have their little 7000 sq mile country,counties in some states are way bigger. They are surrounded by their enemies just like the bible said would happen.

Show me where it says in the Bible that it would happen whilst they were in unbelief and darkness.

Yea I support them because they are the Fathers chosen people as a nation

.

No, as Paul demonstrated, God's true chosen people were the remnant. An unbelieving Israel are not God's chosen people. They are God's rejected people.

Through their faults we were given a shot at salvation,thank them.

Not through the faults of modern so-called Israel,

For if the Father will cut them off he will surely cut you off.

He cut them off because of unbelief. If we do not believe in the Messiah we too will be cut off. But if our trust is in the Messiah He will never cut us off.

 

[waynebo59]

But they are still in unbelief and rejecting the Messiah.



Sooooooo? I certainly didn't LOL But I agree you deserve to be condemned for it.



Show me where it says in the Bible that it would happen whilst they were in unbelief and darkness.

.

No, as Paul demonstrated, God's true chosen people were the remnant. An unbelieving Israel are not God's chosen people. They are God's rejected people.



Not through the faults of modern so-called Israel,



He cut them off because of unbelief. If we do not believe in the Messiah we too will be cut off. But if our trust is in the Messiah He will never cut us off.

Show me where its says they will be in belief before the trials and tribulations?

 

[Brother_Don]

Israel, a people or a place? i'm for Israel a people.

 

[JimmieD]

After reading the article it's pretty obvious it was considered terrorism.

The sad thing is, this is not an uncommon thing done by Israeli settlers against Palestinians (and others, such as Christians).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Thanks for calling it what it is though. I think there are many evangelicals who will never criticize Israel or their citizens as doing anything wrong.

 

[Is]

The sad thing is, this is not an uncommon thing done by Israeli settlers against Palestinians (and others, such as Christians).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Thanks for calling it what it is though. I think there are many evangelicals who will never criticize Israel or their citizens as doing anything wrong.

You've got radicals in every stratum of life. There are some radical Christians too.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The sad thing is, this is not an uncommon thing done by Israeli settlers against Palestinians (and others, such as Christians).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Thanks for calling it what it is though. I think there are many evangelicals who will never criticize Israel or their citizens as doing anything wrong.

the israelis themselves are calling it terrorism...the netanyahu government has even approved a policy of treating the 'price tag' terrorists in the same way palestinian terrorists are treated in the israeli justice system...

there is genuine outrage in israeli society over this...

 

[valiant]

Show me where its says they will be in belief before the trials and tribulations?

I am talking about the return which is always seen as taking place because of repentance and faith. The trials and tribulations are precisely because they are in unbelief. I don't think you people bother to read what you claim to be answering !!!!!