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Originally Posted by valiant
But it was still their land, and they returned to it. If someone had said to them, where are you from?' they would have replied 'Canaan'. Apart from in his youth Jacob had never lived anywhere else. Nor had his sons.
And this was consistent with the promise to Abraham, 'your seed will be a stranger in a land which is not theirs, and they will slave for them for four hundred years'. This suggests that they had left a land that was theirs. And this is confirmed by the fact that God promised that they would 'come here again'. In other words they would return there. It is quite clear.
What is more Jacob is described as 'dwelling in the land' (e.g. 35.22) and as 'dwelling in the land of his fathers' sojournings' (37.1). He no longer saw himself as a sojourner. It could not be clearer that they now saw Canaan as their land.
Jacob possessed land in Shechem. His sons fed their sheep and goats all round Canaan, while he was settled in one place. It is quite clear that he was not a ' stranger and pilgrim'. He had settled there. That was why he wanted to be buried there in the grave that he had dug for himself there. Canaan was his land.
Ths when Isaiah spoke of returning to the land a second time, he had this first time in mind..
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Deut.1:8a - Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land
Deut.31:23 - And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.
Joshua 3:3,4 - And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, ye shall remove from your place, and go after it. Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way to go: for ye have not passed this way hertofore.
Amos 9:15 - And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.
You say the march fom Egypt to Canaan was a restoration. The Jews have never been restored but once and that was from Babylon or else Amos 9:15 would have been fulfilled. They had to possess the land and all the children of Israel had to participate. Just becasue a few people associated with Israel have lived on the land that doesn't mean the land was possessed. It wasn't until Joshua led the children of Israel West across the Jordan was the land truly possessed.
Since Isa.11:11 says God will recover the remnant of His people a second time, it is still in the future. Like I said before, you cannot have anything restored to you unless it has been in your possession before and that only happened once under Joshua.
Deut.31:23 - And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.
Joshua 3:3,4 - And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, ye shall remove from your place, and go after it. Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way to go: for ye have not passed this way hertofore.
Amos 9:15 - And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.
You say the march fom Egypt to Canaan was a restoration. The Jews have never been restored but once and that was from Babylon or else Amos 9:15 would have been fulfilled. They had to possess the land and all the children of Israel had to participate. Just becasue a few people associated with Israel have lived on the land that doesn't mean the land was possessed. It wasn't until Joshua led the children of Israel West across the Jordan was the land truly possessed.
Since Isa.11:11 says God will recover the remnant of His people a second time, it is still in the future. Like I said before, you cannot have anything restored to you unless it has been in your possession before and that only happened once under Joshua.
yes because they had left it. It was now to become their land once again.
I'm sure you think that proves something but I can't see what. All it is saying is that God was going to do for Joshua what He had promised. They were not literally all descended from Jacob by blood. Many were descended from his many servants (as with Abraham) and many were the foreigners who had been coopted into Israel at Sinai.
LOL of course they hadn't passed that way before. They had all been in Egypt and never left it til this point in time. But it says nothing about their forefathers. You are getting desperate LOL.
Sooooo? He did plant them in the land after the exile. And He gave them permanent settlement. They were in fact there for over 500 years. But that was before they crucified His Son. Then it became a whole new ball game.
Israel were restored to the land under Joshua. They were restored to the and after the Exile. TWO RESTORATIONS. And Amos 9.15 was fulfilled in the Return from Exile.
Jacob's family tribe would have numbered a few thousand. They WERE all the children of Israel. LOL if you think Joshua possessed the whole land you read the Bible with blinkers on.
In fact the whole land was never possessed. The Philistines made sure of that. So it was as much possessed by Jacob as it was by Joshua. Isaiah did not speak of possessing the land, but of returning there. And after the Exile Israel returned there the second time.
So you don't see Egypt in Israel as 'the remnant of His people.? He recovered them for the first time from Egypt, and the second time from Babylon. It is crystal clear. You really cannot deny that Jacob and his family tribe were firmly settled in Canaan. Thus it could be restored to them.
But like all your ilk you will invent anything in order to twist prophecies to suit your purpose. That is why you support a nation which is displeasing to God and under His curse.
Have you actually read the context of Isaiah 11.11. Or did you, like you do so many prophesies, quote it in a vacuum?
WHAT IS TO FOLLOW THIS SECOND RESTORATION OF ISRAEL?
'they will fly down on the shoulders of the Philistines in the west, together will they spoil the children of the east, they will put forth their hand on Edom and Moab, and the children of Ammon will obey them.
so are you saying that God will also restore the Philistines, Edom. Moab and Ammon? If He does not according to you the Scripture can't be fulfilled. It fits perfectly the period after the Exile. It doesn't fit the present situation at all.
But its ok. Close your eyes. Ignore the Scriptures. And cling to your own false belief. That way you can believe anything
WHAT IS TO FOLLOW THIS SECOND RESTORATION OF ISRAEL?
'they will fly down on the shoulders of the Philistines in the west, together will they spoil the children of the east, they will put forth their hand on Edom and Moab, and the children of Ammon will obey them.
so are you saying that God will also restore the Philistines, Edom. Moab and Ammon? If He does not according to you the Scripture can't be fulfilled. It fits perfectly the period after the Exile. It doesn't fit the present situation at all.
But its ok. Close your eyes. Ignore the Scriptures. And cling to your own false belief. That way you can believe anything
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Who is the "rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch that shall grow out of his roots"? Isaiah 11:1
Who will "smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked". Isaiah 11:4; Rev.19:15
When will "The wolf dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them"? Isaiah 11:6
"And the cow and the bear shall feed their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox." Isaiah 11:7
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Isaiah 11:10
And it shall come to pass in that day the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathos, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isaiah 11:11
Assyria - to the north of Egypt
Egypt - to the south, Pathros in Upper Egypt, Cush-Ethiopia, Elam - The Persian Gulf, Shinar - Babylon, and Hamath on the Orantes River in Syria, if all these places still exist surely the ancient foes of Israel (v.14) must still exist in some form, somewhere.
"In that day" means the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ at His Second Advent.
Who will "smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked". Isaiah 11:4; Rev.19:15
When will "The wolf dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them"? Isaiah 11:6
"And the cow and the bear shall feed their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox." Isaiah 11:7
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Isaiah 11:10
And it shall come to pass in that day the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathos, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isaiah 11:11
Assyria - to the north of Egypt
Egypt - to the south, Pathros in Upper Egypt, Cush-Ethiopia, Elam - The Persian Gulf, Shinar - Babylon, and Hamath on the Orantes River in Syria, if all these places still exist surely the ancient foes of Israel (v.14) must still exist in some form, somewhere.
"In that day" means the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ at His Second Advent.
The Messiah who came after the return from exile and the settlement of Israel in the land.
I notice you missed out His positive ministry of bringing righteousness to the world through His reign from Heaven.
He smote the earth with the rod of His mouth through the Gospel and its effects. The Gospel brought salvation and judgment. We see its effects in the Middle East today.
You cannot just make Isaiah 11 and Reve 19 speak of the same events. In the latter case judgment came by the sword from His mouth, and He came from Heaven, not quite the same picture.
This was simply a vivid way of saying that through the ministry of the Gospel the world would know peace. In fact it has been literally fulfilled in many parts of the world today, and the Gospel still progresses. It is also literally filled through worldwide animal sanctuaries and zoos, but that is secondary matter.
are you suggesting that the Gentiles have not sought to the Messiah? you are living proof that they have. Here 'in that day' refers to Christ's first coming.
'in that day' is a vague scriptural phrase which simply points to the future. It des not necessarily connect with what has gone before. it does NOT refer to the second coming. It simply indicates an unknown future. This occurred in the centuries following the exile.
what nonsense. it does not suggest that 'they will be found in some form somewhere'. It claims that when Israel return to the land they will find themselves surrounded by their ancient foes. And this could only happen after the Exile. It can certainly not happen NOW. You pretend to interpret literally and just dismiss the problems with your eyes closed. In my view the way you treat the word of God is a disgrace.
No it doesn't. It simply indicates some day in the future as far as Isaiah was concerned.
Originally Posted by prove-all
we see curently Israel, officially the State of Israel
It is not the lost tribes of Israel, but jews and ben. and lev. living there
It is not the lost tribes of Israel, but jews and ben. and lev. living there
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I didn't miss anything because the point of my reply was to show Old Testament references in Revelation. When did Jesus ever smote the earth and slay the wicked in His First Coming? He didn't the reference is future to His Second Coming.
This is the straw that finally broke the camels back. You can't be serious, SMH! How many zoos or animal sanctuaries have you seen where all these types of animals are living amongst each other? None!
While we're at it let's add water parks,....And yeah the Lord giveth us water parks to enjoyeth.....
I'm through dealing with you. And for future reference, I'm putting you ignore.
This is the straw that finally broke the camels back. You can't be serious, SMH! How many zoos or animal sanctuaries have you seen where all these types of animals are living amongst each other? None!
While we're at it let's add water parks,....And yeah the Lord giveth us water parks to enjoyeth.....
I'm through dealing with you. And for future reference, I'm putting you ignore.
The first four seals of Revelation 6 following the pattern of Matthew 24.5 ff show Christ smiting the earth and slaying the wicked prior to the destruction of the Temple, which is another example of it..
Actually quite a few. But I did point out that that was secondary. The prime meaning was of one of peace on earth,
True
I'm through dealing with you. And for future reference, I'm putting you ignore.
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