The Anti Christ

[tanakh]

Oh, your point about Rev. 2:13 is not relevant to the false prophet and the 7-headed beast.

I will not debate the meaning of "where Satan's throne is", but the devil (dragon) gives his authority to the 7-headed beast, which is NOT related to Pergamum.

You may be the CEO of a corporation, and give authority to one of your managers, who then has the power to do things on the factory floor, or at another office location, etc.

For some Islam ,Turkey and Pergamum are the latest in a long line of sensational targets for beast hunters. Anyone remember the Saddam Hussein hysteria before his overthrow? At least then there was some excuse because Saddam had built a palace at Babylon and claimed to be the new Nebuchadnezzar. The latest speculation seems to hang on one verse in Revelation.

 

[Jackson123]

Hello Jackson123,

Just FYI, the first beast is the antichrist and the second is identified as being the false prophet. The fact that the second beast/false prophet will be performing miracles, signs and wonders on the first beasts behalf demonstrates that the first beast is the antichrist. In further support of this, it is the second beast/false prophet who orders the inhabitants of the earth to make that image of the first beast, again demonstrating that the first beast is the antichrist. The reference to the second beast having horns like a lamb is not representing Christ, for Rev.19:20 has both the beast and the false prophet thrown alive into the lake of fire. To put it simply, the first and second beast are both the bad guys.

thanks bro, I wonder why second beast give the power to the first beast. Is second beast also ruled during the first beast?\

when the second beast in power, is first beast retired, or die or both ruled in the same time. Who is the real boss, the first or the second

 

[491v3n]

Isn't the first beast supposed to get a head wound then be possessed so to speak by the "spirit of the beast"? Although it doesn't say much about the second false prophet beast aren't these supposed to be spirit entities in physical bodies?

 

[Ahwatukee]

thanks bro, I wonder why second beast give the power to the first beast. Is second beast also ruled during the first beast?\

when the second beast in power, is first beast retired, or die or both ruled in the same time. Who is the real boss, the first or the second

The "real boss" is the first beast, the antichrist who will be controlled by the angel from Abyss who is the beast. The second beast is the false prophet revealed in Rev.16:13 and 19:20 and will be the one who will be the head of Mystery Babylon, the woman who rides the beast, which is that last day counterfeit religions system. The eighth king is that beast who comes up out of the Abyss (Rev.17:8,11) and is the same king/head who receives a fatal would and yet lives. The second beast/false prophet supports the first beast/antichrist. And the first beast gives power to the second beast regarding that counterfeit, Babylonian religious system.

In regards to the time of death for the 1st beast/antichrist and the second beast/false prophet, they are both thrown alive into the lake of fire when Christ returns to the earth to end the age. Read Rev.19:11-21.

"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

 

[DP]

I hear alot of people saying Obama's the antichrist. How much truth to that do you think there is. I know he's a terrible person for promoting and backing the tpp but how likely is it that he'll force us all to have the mark of the beast? And if we do get the mark of the beast how do we get rid of it?

"antichrist" = those against Christ, or those in place of Christ (see Matt.24:23-26, and 2 Thess.2:4).

TWO separate 'beasts' in Revelation 13.

1st beast = a kingdom; Rev.13:1-2, the leopard, bear, and lion symbols are from Daniel 7 regarding the old beast kingdoms of Daniel's prophecy.

2nd beast = the person of Rev.13:11 forward that is to come with two horns LIKE a lamb, but will speak as a dragon, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men to deceive. Many call this 2nd beast the "false prophet" but there is no "false prophet" mention in the Rev.13 Chapter.

That 2nd beast is the coming Antichrist.

He is to work great signs and wonders, miracles, on earth, to cause the whole world (except Christ's elect) to worship him and the image of the beast (Rev.13:7-8).

The Antichrist is synonomous with the "dragon" of that Chapter. He is synonomous with the "dragon" and "that old serpent" of the Rev.12 Chapter.

The Antichrist will be... Satan, de facto in person, upon this earth in the end of days. Rev.12:7 forward told us he is booted out of heaven down to earth with his angels.

Satan is a 'man'; he has the outward image and likeness of 'man', which God also created the angels with. The image of 'man' originated from God's Own Image in Heaven, not from flesh Adam. Satan is a heavenly cherub with the image of 'man'. In Isaiah 14, God calls him a man.

Satan and his angels will not need to inhabit a flesh body to appear with the image of man on this earth, in our dimension. Those who believe they do need that have been watching too many Hollywood zombie movies.

What Satan and his angels are coming to this earth to do is the same thing he did at his first rebellion against God. He is coming to play our Lord Jesus Christ, and every other messiah other religions are looking for.

Jesus told us to not allow any man to deceive us.

 

[Jackson123]

The "real boss" is the first beast, the antichrist who will be controlled by the angel from Abyss who is the beast. The second beast is the false prophet revealed in Rev.16:13 and 19:20 and will be the one who will be the head of Mystery Babylon, the woman who rides the beast, which is that last day counterfeit religions system. The eighth king is that beast who comes up out of the Abyss (Rev.17:8,11) and is the same king/head who receives a fatal would and yet lives. The second beast/false prophet supports the first beast/antichrist. And the first beast gives power to the second beast regarding that counterfeit, Babylonian religious system.

In regards to the time of death for the 1st beast/antichrist and the second beast/false prophet, they are both thrown alive into the lake of fire when Christ returns to the earth to end the age. Read Rev.19:11-21.

"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Thanks bro, Is those beast ruled for three and half years each or both of them for seven years

 

[491v3n]

Why if God says he wishes none perish would allow anything like this to even happen i get its to test the believers but why would He even make a single soul knowing it would be sent to hell let alone the lake of fire it's easy to stand firm in faith but what if one might something happens like when Lot got drunk and taken advantage of by his daughters and you mistakenly take the mark or say its contagious and someone who has it passes it on to you through completely unintentional gestures like a handshake

 

[Ahwatukee]

Thanks bro, Is those beast ruled for three and half years each or both of them for seven years

Hello Jackson123,

The beast is given authority to make war and to conquer the saints for that last 3 1/2 years and the false prophet with him as the leader of that counterfeit religious system. They are both thrown alive into the lake of fire when the Lord returns to end the age at the end of that last 3 1/2 years (Rev.19:20)

 

[Jackson123]

Hello Jackson123,

The beast is given authority to make war and to conquer the saints for that last 3 1/2 years and the false prophet with him as the leader of that counterfeit religious system. They are both thrown alive into the lake of fire when the Lord returns to end the age at the end of that last 3 1/2 years (Rev.19:20)

Thank bro. I was think the first beast ruled for three and half then retired and second beast take over for another three and half.

 

[DP]

Thank bro. I was think the first beast ruled for three and half then retired and second beast take over for another three and half.

Actually per the Rev.13:1-2 Scripture, the 1st beast is a kingdom beast, a system. That's why John was given to see the leopard, bear, and lion symbols associated with it, which comes from Daniel 7 and the beast kingdoms of old.

The 2nd beast of Rev.13 is the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward, and it is he that is a person, the Antichrist, coming to deceive. Can't apply the Antichrist label to the 1st beast, since it's about a kingdom, not a person.

 

[Quasar92]

Who the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth of Rev.13, are, and where they can be found in the Bible:

1 Jn.2:18 is the only place in the Bible where the term Antichrist is found. But he is referred to by a number of different terms as recorded below, and where to find them.

There is only one Antichrist/the beast out of the sea, whom Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to, documented in Rev.13:1-2. He will be revealed [after the Church has been caught up to be with the Lord, recorded in Jn.14:2-3; 1 Thess.4:17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8], as the final world dictator, before the second coming of Christ.

1. He is the "little horn" in Dan.7:8; 2. He is known as a "stern faced king, in Dan.8:23. 3. He is all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. 4. In 2 Thess.2:3, he is referred to as "the man of lawlessness." 5. In 2 Thess.2:8-9, he is referred to as the "lawless one." 6. In Rev.11:7; 17:3, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 16 and 17, he is called the beast. 7. In Rev.13:1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, he is called the beast out of the Sea.

The beast out of the earth in Rev.13:11-17 is the False Prophet and the activity he is involved in Rev.13:11

Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name"

When Jesus returns in His second coming with His armies from heaven, He will defeat both beasts, the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Throw them in the lake of fire, and destroy the armies of the ten horns/nations allied to them, recorded in Rev.19:11-21.


Quasar92

 

[DP]

Quasar92 is way out in left field with his theories of the Antichrist. Here is actual Bible Scripture to back up what I've already posted in my previous post.

Rev 13:1-2
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
KJV

This 1st beast rises out of the sea. It has ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads. It is likened to a leopard, and its feet of a bear, and its mouth as a mouth of a lion, and it's the dragon that gives its power.

Dan 7:3-6
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
KJV

These above were all about beast KINGDOMS that arose in past history to John's time. They all had beast kings over them, but those symbols actually became representative of their kingdoms.

The word "his" in Rev.13:1-2 is a possessive pronoun that can be translated to his, her, it, etc. Don't be blinded by thinking the 'system' is a person. It's a kingdom, not a person.

Another major evidence that this 1st beast out of the "sea" is not a person is our Lord's descriptions of what the ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads represent. Per Rev.17, our Lord showed John the "seven heads" are "seven mountains". Now mountains are not... a person.


Now about the 2nd beast, the "another beast", which is... about the coming Antichrist:

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This "another beast", a 2nd beast, comes out of the earth. That right there proves beyond all doubt that there are TWO different beasts being described in this Rev.13 chapter, and not just one. The 1st beast comes out of the "sea", and the 2nd beast comes out of the "earth".


12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

This 2nd beast, the "another beast", will exercise all the power of the "first beast". There, that's another proof beyond doubt that there are TWO separate beasts being mentioned in this Rev.13 chapter. That also reveals it's the 1st beast of ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads that receives the deadly wound. Back in Rev.13:3, we were told that deadly wound was upon one of the "seven heads" ("seven mountains" per Rev.17), and that it was healed.

The deadly wound was not upon the Antichrist, but upon his system, the beast kingdom. And it was healed. What is that, and when was it healed? I will tell you a mystery: the system we're shown back in Rev.12:3-4 which Satan first rebelled against God with, in the time of old before this world, and it had ten horns, seven heads, but only 7 crowns instead of ten, that kingdom Satan used to rebel with suffered a deadly wound. God ended what Satan tried to do back in that time of old. That is what the parables in Ezekiel 28 and 31 are revealing. When was that deadly wound healed? It actually won't be healed until the tribulation when the dragon sets up this Rev.13 world beast kingdom of ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads. These Rev.13 verses are a look in the future.


13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

These verses about the 2nd beast, the "another beast", doing great wonders and making fire rain down from heaven in the sight of men is the SAME working as the one Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2:3-4, and that Jesus warned of in Matt.24:23-26 (pseudo-Christ).

 

[RBA238]

2 Thessalonians 2:9 (KJV) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

I think OB only fits the lying part.

What about HRC??

 

[491v3n]

So is the first beast the false prophet? How come the conclusion is one beast being thrown into the lake of fire and what's the difference

 

[DP]

So is the first beast the false prophet? How come the conclusion is one beast being thrown into the lake of fire and what's the difference

The 1st beast is a kingdom. The 2nd beast, called the "another beast" in Rev.13:11 is the Antichrist, and is linked to the idea of a dragon.

The "false prophet" is not mentioned anywhere in Rev.13. It is first mentioned in Rev.16:13 about the 6th Vial working.

Per Rev.19:20 the "beast", and "false prophet" both are cast into the lake of fire. The dragon is not.


Mystery of Rev.19:20:

The dragon is Satan (this we were told in Rev.12:9).

The "beast" of Rev.19:20 is about the 1st beast (kingdom of ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads).

The "false prophet" is the 2nd beast, and the dragon, and the Antichrist, and Satan, all rolled into one entity. The false prophet is a Role Satan plays, like a character role in an act or a stage play.

Satan is coming to play God, something he tried to do when he first rebelled against God. He will play Christ. Jesus Christ was also known as a Prophet. The "false prophet" role is a mimic of Christ as Prophet.

The reason all this is so is because God has already judged and sentenced Satan to perish in the lake of fire, but not any... flesh born man. No one born in the flesh has been judged yet. So you can't have a flesh born man as the "false prophet", nor as the coming Antichrist, nor as the dragon.

The reason the dragon of Rev.19:20 is not cast into the lake of fire at that point in time is because the dragon is simply another title for Satan per Rev.12:9. Satan is to be locked in his pit prison during Christ's future 1,000 years reign as written in Rev.20.

 

[491v3n]

Except for the second beast right... He IS a flesh and blood man who is already judged? This is blowing my mind

 

[Ahwatukee]

The "false prophet" is not mentioned anywhere in Rev.13. It is first mentioned in Rev.16:13 about the 6th Vial working.

Your conclusion above is incorrect DP, as the second beast is indeed mentioned as being the false prophet in Rev.13 and that because both are identified as being the one who performs those miracles, signs and wonders, as demonstrated below:

Second Beast:
"Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life."

"And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. (Rev.19:20)

In Rev.13 we are told that the second beast performs signs and makes fire come down out of heaven in full view the inhabitants of the earth. Then in Rev.19:20, we are told that the false prophet is the one who performs those signs in the presence of the first beast. The fact that the second beast is said to be performing signs on behalf of the first beast and in Rev.19:20 the false prophet is said to be the one performing those signs, then the only conclusion can be is that the second beast and the false prophet are the same person.

Also, that both the first beast (antichrist) and the second beast (false prophet) are captured and are thrown ALIVE into the lake of fire, would demonstrate that they are both humans. The first beast/antichrist is the one who is controlled by that beast who comes up out of the Abyss. The first beast/antichrist, is that head/eighth king who receives the fatal wound.

1st Beast = Antichrist

2nd Beast = False prophet

 

[garee]

Your conclusion above is incorrect DP, as the second beast is indeed mentioned as being the false prophet in Rev.13 and that because both are identified as being the one who performs those miracles, signs and wonders, as demonstrated below:

Second Beast:
"Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life."

"And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. (Rev.19:20)

In Rev.13 we are told that the second beast performs signs and makes fire come down out of heaven in full view the inhabitants of the earth. Then in Rev.19:20, we are told that the false prophet is the one who performs those signs in the presence of the first beast. The fact that the second beast is said to be performing signs on behalf of the first beast and in Rev.19:20 the false prophet is said to be the one performing those signs, then the only conclusion can be is that the second beast and the false prophet are the same person.

Also, that both the first beast (antichrist) and the second beast (false prophet) are captured and are thrown ALIVE into the lake of fire, would demonstrate that they are both humans. The first beast/antichrist is the one who is controlled by that beast who comes up out of the Abyss. The first beast/antichrist, is that head/eighth king who receives the fatal wound.

1st Beast = Antichrist

2nd Beast = False prophet

It is all one and the same lying spirit that has no form, Satan the one god of this world in whom other demons follow after .

When looking at those descriptive passages in Revelation or other places they all describe one (unseen) lying spirit that has no form.

Giving the devil a form of his own is where the fall in the garden got its false authority and men died spiritually .Men fell because they were no longer waking by faith (the unseen) voice of God.

It is why I believe we are informed to "let God be true and every man a liar". Satan , the serpent who has no form uses the things of this world (flesh and blood) to draw men away from our father in heaven. The devil, Beelzebub insists we do need men to teach us as his motive of operation.

The beast, is natural man used as the false prophet therefore as one of the many antichrists who were already there .Cant separate the works of a false prophet from the term antichrist (singular) or antichrists( plural) . the liar. It's what the antichrist does .....bring lying signs and wonders through human form .

 

[garee]

Except for the second beast right... He IS a flesh and blood man who is already judged? This is blowing my mind

The judgement is not in respect to that seen.(flesh and blood) But the lying spirit ,that not seen, the spirit of error that works in the heart to deceive those seen.

The work of the lying spirit, the god of this world has no form .He uses form as the rudiments of this world to deceive others .
So it’s not flesh and blood we do wrestle against. But spirits and principalities in high places like the church , where the judgement begins.

We walk by faith the unseen, not after our fleshly experiences of this life, as that seen

That faith of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God is the key that unlocks the gates of hell, as the gospel of our salvation frees it prisoners, men as new creatures with an eternal spirit praise him for doing the work ..

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight.

 

[DP]

Except for the second beast right... He IS a flesh and blood man who is already judged? This is blowing my mind

Yes, the 2nd beast ("another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward) is the actual Antichrist 'person'. He also is the "dragon" of the Book of Revelation. That's the one the whole world will worship in the last days, except Christ's elect will not worship him.

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV