Is your pastor deceiving you, or is he just ignorant?

[ZacharyB]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!
Most of the NT was written to born-again Christians in the churches,
so many warnings were written to YOU (if indeed you are born-again).
However, most believers today are blind to them (for several reasons).
Dozens of verses WARN: If you choose to keep on sinning without
serious confession and repentance (sincere regret and desire to change),
you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation!

• “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous.” (1 John 3:7)

• “… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

• “… whoever (reverentially) fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

• “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … so now present your members as slaves
of righteousness for holiness … the wages of sin is (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16, 19, 23)

• “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death
the (sinful) deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by God’s Spirit,
these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

• Jesus warned: “And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

• “To not obey is to not believe” is taught in Hebrews 3:18-19 …
which links back to the applicable examples of: sinning (3:17), rebelling (3:16),
hardening of the heart (3:15), and not remaining faithful (3:14).

• “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life … But each one is tempted when he is drawn
away by his own desires … Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin when it is full-grown brings forth (eternal) death.” (James 1:12-16)

• “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.” (Revelation 2:10)

• Everyone who is “cowardly (fearful), unbelieving (includes unfaithful), abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

• “… reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:7)
Yes, everyone who is ungodly will be thrown into the lake of fire!

• Jesus is coming back for:
“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing …
holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27)
“… holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God” (Hebrews 12:14)

• To continue your progressive sanctification unto holiness,
it is critical to regularly confess and repent of your sins …
“IF we walk in the light … the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin
… IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us (of) our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

 

[gotime]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!
Most of the NT was written to born-again Christians in the churches,
so many warnings were written to YOU (if indeed you are born-again).
However, most believers today are blind to them (for several reasons).
Dozens of verses WARN: If you choose to keep on sinning without
serious confession and repentance (sincere regret and desire to change),
you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation!

• “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous.” (1 John 3:7)

• “… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

• “… whoever (reverentially) fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

• “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … so now present your members as slaves
of righteousness for holiness … the wages of sin is (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16, 19, 23)

• “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death
the (sinful) deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by God’s Spirit,
these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

• Jesus warned: “And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

• “To not obey is to not believe” is taught in Hebrews 3:18-19 …
which links back to the applicable examples of: sinning (3:17), rebelling (3:16),
hardening of the heart (3:15), and not remaining faithful (3:14).

• “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life … But each one is tempted when he is drawn
away by his own desires … Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin when it is full-grown brings forth (eternal) death.” (James 1:12-16)

• “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.” (Revelation 2:10)

• Everyone who is “cowardly (fearful), unbelieving (includes unfaithful), abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

• “… reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:7)
Yes, everyone who is ungodly will be thrown into the lake of fire!

• Jesus is coming back for:
“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing …
holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27)
“… holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God” (Hebrews 12:14)

• To continue your progressive sanctification unto holiness,
it is critical to regularly confess and repent of your sins …
“IF we walk in the light … the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin
… IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us (of) our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

The new testament brings the same base message as the Old. Repent turn from sin/wickedness and turn to God/Jesus.

Both promote God as the answer both show sin is the problem.

 

[spiritlife7]

Grace is what saves us not our own effort to become better (holy). by the way you miss used the phrase "fall from grace" you gave it opposite meaning. its from galatians and means if people do not trust grace then they "fall from grace". the galatians had started to follow the law (circumcision etc) to try and justify them self, which is why Paul had to correct them back to relying on grace.

 

[gotime]

It seems today that many "christians" Do not really repent today. To feel sorry for, and hate sin.

Many are simply worried about the results of sin but not the sin itself. More consumed with the reward than attracted to the lifestyle of heaven.

Thus we have a makeshift Gospel today which practically makes Jesus a band-aid more than a healer. Where Grace is twisted into some kind of cover for what is really going on. More of a savior in sin rather than a savior from sin.

True repentance is not popular in the Christian world today.

 

[ZacharyB]

Were the Galatians Christians or not?
Were they in danger of falling from grace?
If they continued to trust in the law instead of grace,
would not they have fallen from grace?
Yes, of course.
No excuses, thanks very much.
This is merely one of many examples which destroys OSAS.

 

[ZacharyB]

It seems today that many "christians" Do not really repent today.
True repentance is not popular in the Christian world today.

Then many will be sorely disappointed.

1 JOHN 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness,
we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 IF we confess our sins, He (Jesus) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 JOHN 2
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins (past, present, future),
and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him”, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,
and the truth is not in him.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

(Groan) Another OSAS topic in disguise...if it isn't it will soon turn out to be one.

 

[gotime]

(Groan) Another OSAS topic in disguise...if it isn't it will soon turn out to be one.

now here is a question to ponder. Will it turn into that topic because it simply will, or because someone/you mentioned it?

 

[spiritlife7]

Were the Galatians Christians or not?
Were they in danger of falling from grace?
If they continued to trust in the law instead of grace,
would not they have fallen from grace?
Yes, of course.
No excuses, thanks very much.
This is merely one of many examples which destroys OSAS.

it's a big assumption on your part that falling from grace means same as loosing salvation. making assumptions easily twists the truth. why didnt Paul just say "you are falling from salvation"? because everyday we choose to live by grace or by law which determines are we spiritual christians or carnal.

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: And everybody here knew that there is no baptism in old testament

 

[JesusLives]

What does any of this have to do with a Pastor deceiving us? Is there one in particular teaching falsehoods?

 

[MadParrotWoman]

now here is a question to ponder. Will it turn into that topic because it simply will, or because someone/you mentioned it?

Nope nothing to do with me - it has already been mentioned if you scroll up a little.

 

[ZacharyB]

it's a big assumption on your part that falling from grace means same as loosing salvation. making assumptions easily twists the truth. why didnt Paul just say "you are falling from salvation"? because everyday we choose to live by grace or by law which determines are we spiritual christians or carnal.

Please don't fall into the trap of questioning how Paul writes.
Jesus taught him for 17 years how to write to the churches (i.e. to us).
You must understand Paul's incredibly-tactful method of writing.
He mixes in his dire warnings to believers with endless
edifications, exhortations, encouragements, etc.
His warnings are somewhat camouflaged so as to not discourage people.
The Spirit will reveal what He desires to reveal at the appropriate time
for each individual (when he/she is ready to hear it and accept it).

The word of God was designed by Almighty God and is truly an incredible document.
Much deeper than we can even imagine.

 

[spiritlife7]

Please don't fall into the trap of questioning how Paul writes.
Jesus taught him for 17 years how to write to the churches (i.e. to us).
You must understand Paul's incredibly-tactful method of writing.
He mixes in his dire warnings to believers with endless
edifications, exhortations, encouragements, etc.
His warnings are somewhat camouflaged so as to not discourage people.
The Spirit will reveal what He desires to reveal at the appropriate time
for each individual (when he/she is ready to hear it and accept it).

The word of God was designed by Almighty God and is truly an incredible document.
Much deeper than we can even imagine.

with this kind of attitude towards the scripture how can you ever know for sure that your interpretation is right?
I can see that in what Paul writes in all his episteles there is very straight forward words and I don't believe there is some hidden message in the things he says.
Something maybe hard to understood but there is no intentionally hidden meanings in Paul's words. 2Pe 3:16

 

[Tintin]

Out of the woodwork, Wormwood and into the fire. I pity the fool who craps on about OSAS.

 

[ukok102nak]

And here it is
How Paul was certain only when
2 Timothy: 4. 3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

As they say
2 Corinthians: 10. 3. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4. (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5. Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Remember this
1 Corinthians: 14. 37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40. Let all things be done decently and in order.

:ty:

 

[ukok102nak]

:sisid: Este we mean did anyone here knew
if there is a commandment of baptism in old testament?

:smoke: Please excuse us sister ( the author of this thread ) :happy:
for asking this question for it may lead this to our search for
The truth
Also unto the topic of this thread that
if their pastor speak the truth or their pastor deceiving them

:ty:

 

[MarcR]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!
Most of the NT was written to born-again Christians in the churches,
so many warnings were written to YOU (if indeed you are born-again).
However, most believers today are blind to them (for several reasons).
Dozens of verses WARN: If you choose to keep on sinning without
serious confession and repentance (sincere regret and desire to change),
you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation!

• “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous.” (1 John 3:7)

• “… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

• “… whoever (reverentially) fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

• “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … so now present your members as slaves
of righteousness for holiness … the wages of sin is (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16, 19, 23)

• “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death
the (sinful) deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by God’s Spirit,
these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

• Jesus warned: “And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

• “To not obey is to not believe” is taught in Hebrews 3:18-19 …
which links back to the applicable examples of: sinning (3:17), rebelling (3:16),
hardening of the heart (3:15), and not remaining faithful (3:14).

• “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life … But each one is tempted when he is drawn
away by his own desires … Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin when it is full-grown brings forth (eternal) death.” (James 1:12-16)

• “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.” (Revelation 2:10)

• Everyone who is “cowardly (fearful), unbelieving (includes unfaithful), abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

• “… reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:7)
Yes, everyone who is ungodly will be thrown into the lake of fire!

• Jesus is coming back for:
“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing …
holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27)
“… holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God” (Hebrews 12:14)

• To continue your progressive sanctification unto holiness,
it is critical to regularly confess and repent of your sins …
“IF we walk in the light … the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin
… IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us (of) our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

You seem unwilling to look at a third possibility; namely that you are either mistaken or a deceiver.

Grace has been consistently preached since the first century. It seems that someone trying to nit pick verses to support a contrary idea is more suspect.

 

[shotgunner]

When all you can see is sin, you are not looking to the cross.

 

[Willie-T]

It seems today that many "christians" Do not really repent today. To feel sorry for, and hate sin.

Many are simply worried about the results of sin but not the sin itself. More consumed with the reward than attracted to the lifestyle of heaven.

Thus we have a makeshift Gospel today which practically makes Jesus a band-aid more than a healer. Where Grace is twisted into some kind of cover for what is really going on. More of a savior in sin rather than a savior from sin.

True repentance is not popular in the Christian world today.

You have this so wrong, God "repented" 28 times in the Bible. (Go look it up. It's right there.) Care to explain how He was sinning?