In James it it s written if you judge brother you judge the Law it only one law Giwer
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K
This passage is talking about we are never to do things in a hateful or sinful manner against another.
When we see another walking in willful sin we have a set standard giving to us on how to handle the manner, and it is always to be done in love. We are to point it out to them and help them to overcome it by exhorting and esteeming them.
We are never to condemn, belittle, demean, or attack the person who is sinning or we are not obeying the law of liberty through Christ either. We would make ourselves guilty of sin as well, which is one of the reasons Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they taught and gave the law but would not lift a finger to help others keep and overcome.
Love, mercy, and forgiveness are key components to a true born again believers life, and the Apostle John shows in his first epistle if those three things are not in us then no eternal life abides in us !!!
When we see another walking in willful sin we have a set standard giving to us on how to handle the manner, and it is always to be done in love. We are to point it out to them and help them to overcome it by exhorting and esteeming them.
We are never to condemn, belittle, demean, or attack the person who is sinning or we are not obeying the law of liberty through Christ either. We would make ourselves guilty of sin as well, which is one of the reasons Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they taught and gave the law but would not lift a finger to help others keep and overcome.
Love, mercy, and forgiveness are key components to a true born again believers life, and the Apostle John shows in his first epistle if those three things are not in us then no eternal life abides in us !!!
G
New American Standard Bible
Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it.
Basically? Mind our own business and keep our fat nose out of it.
None of us know ALL the details and there might even be a overt sin or wrong mental attitude that we can see, but we don't know the whole story.
If someone asks us for help or is personally upsetting our walk or sinning against us PERSONALLY, we discern through the doctrine in our soul, the proper route to take.
Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it.
Basically? Mind our own business and keep our fat nose out of it.
None of us know ALL the details and there might even be a overt sin or wrong mental attitude that we can see, but we don't know the whole story.
If someone asks us for help or is personally upsetting our walk or sinning against us PERSONALLY, we discern through the doctrine in our soul, the proper route to take.
K
Are you saying then that Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul both lied since they both said we have the right to pull them aside and discuss the sinful behavior with them ???
Apostle Paul even showed we have the right to shun them from the church if they don't give up their ways, and Paul also says we are overseers of the rest of the flock.
Nowhere does the bible say mind your own business !!!
Apostle Paul even showed we have the right to shun them from the church if they don't give up their ways, and Paul also says we are overseers of the rest of the flock.
Nowhere does the bible say mind your own business !!!
G
I would expect nothing less from you Kenneth. Maybe God has set up His special "sin fighters" group and I didn't make the cut.
The flipside of this. Our Pastor would protect his flock from the "Sin fighters." He wouldn't overtly kick them out, he would just do a sermon on Grace and they would leave.....it truly is uncanny how he can spot em.
The flipside of this. Our Pastor would protect his flock from the "Sin fighters." He wouldn't overtly kick them out, he would just do a sermon on Grace and they would leave.....it truly is uncanny how he can spot em.
K
Did the Apostle Paul preach Grace alone or did he also teach and warn believers of sinful behaviors continuing ???
Apostle Paul preached on both and even went into the Corinthian church and told the congregation they have every right to shun and kick out the one's who continued in deliberate sinful ways.
I think the issue you have is you think I am talking about kicking them out right away but I have said no such thing as I have always spoke of the process both Jesus and Paul both gave us to follow.
We also are to protect the flock but protecting them does not mean we allow them to continue to live sinful lifestyles. Teaching the truth of God's word is not allowing them to continue in their sinful ways, as if you allow them to continue that way then you would be condoning sin and saying no matter how a person lives it is acceptable.
That is completely against the teachings of the Word of God as Grace does not allow lewdness to continue !!!
G
Ken. Someone who comes into the local assembly and disrupts service IS affecting my walk. If a person came in and started to yell out "your sins are taking you to hell or you can lose salvation." and was promoting that evil, I would be the first to stand up and walk them out.
But if I knew they believed that kind of evil and sat quietly and listened. Didn't disrupt service........I respect their privacy in their own priesthood.
But if I knew they believed that kind of evil and sat quietly and listened. Didn't disrupt service........I respect their privacy in their own priesthood.
K
Again you are distorting things as nowhere did I say a person has the right to come in and disrupt the service, as that is one of the issues Paul addressed in the Corinthian church as well.
However the preacher/pastor when giving his sermon should not be preaching Grace alone in his services, but needs to also let the congregation know the warnings that sinful lifestyles will lead to if they continue down that road.
Apostle Paul did not cast away the warnings about sin in our lives to preach a Grace only doctrine, so why should pastor's now days do it ??? They shouldn't as those warnings are just as valid today as they were then, and as a matter of fact they are more in need now as apostasy and false teaching is very bad now.
A half truth can be just as dangerous as a complete lie !!!
G
Thats what Paul was dealing with in the Corinthian church. They were overtly promoting evil practices in the local assembly. Boasting about it and disrupting the Church. These folks were in a religion that promoted sex and foods sacrificed to idols and were trying to bring these into the church.
Paul is not talking about us walking up to a person who we know that got drunk last night or a person who we know who has committed adultery and is sitting quietly in church and rebuking them..........We mind our own business. We keep our BIG FAT noses out of their business.
Now if they brought in a bottle of jack and started pouring shots for everybody and the prostitutes that they brought in..........We take some action.
Paul is not talking about us walking up to a person who we know that got drunk last night or a person who we know who has committed adultery and is sitting quietly in church and rebuking them..........We mind our own business. We keep our BIG FAT noses out of their business.
Now if they brought in a bottle of jack and started pouring shots for everybody and the prostitutes that they brought in..........We take some action.
K
Are you saying then that Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul both lied
I was speaking on the behalf that he said we are to mind our own business, as nowhere in scripture does it say or show that.
We are called to love, help, do for, exhort, esteem, and teach and lead them in truth in His word. This nowhere says mind your own business, and both Jesus and Paul both give passages on dealing with the sinful behaviors on those called our brethren.
Paul even says do not associate with a person named a brother who continues to live a deliberate sinful lifestyle, and says to not even eat with them.
Gr8grace lies all the time about Jesus, especially when he says Jesus loves us. 
We are called to love, help, do for, exhort, esteem, and teach and lead them in truth in His word. This nowhere says mind your own business, and both Jesus and Paul both give passages on dealing with the sinful behaviors on those called our brethren.
Paul even says do not associate with a person named a brother who continues to live a deliberate sinful lifestyle, and says to not even eat with them.
K
That is not what was going on as that is reading into that passage of 1 Corinthian 5 what is not there, as the disrupting of the service was only spoken to the women who stood up and was unruly interrupting service by their outbursts.
Nowhere does it say they were disrupting the service and boasting about their sinful behaviors in that chapter. In verse 2 Paul is speaking to those who know the sinful behavior is wrong but have not stepped forward and called that person out for their sinful behavior.
He then tells them in verses 4-5 that in the name of the Lord Jesus they have the right to hand this sinful person over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. This means shun them out of the church, not physical death as some have tried to say.
As for rebuking and reproving yes Paul does say we have the right to do that, but there is a time and place to do it, as well as a order of how to do it. We also are to follow it up with exhortation and esteeming the person, and if the person listens and repents the Word of God says we have gained a brother.
But if after all steps have been taken and they still refuse is says we are to cast them out !!!
Nowhere does it say they were disrupting the service and boasting about their sinful behaviors in that chapter. In verse 2 Paul is speaking to those who know the sinful behavior is wrong but have not stepped forward and called that person out for their sinful behavior.
He then tells them in verses 4-5 that in the name of the Lord Jesus they have the right to hand this sinful person over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. This means shun them out of the church, not physical death as some have tried to say.
As for rebuking and reproving yes Paul does say we have the right to do that, but there is a time and place to do it, as well as a order of how to do it. We also are to follow it up with exhortation and esteeming the person, and if the person listens and repents the Word of God says we have gained a brother.
But if after all steps have been taken and they still refuse is says we are to cast them out !!!
K
I have done history research and not everybody of the Corinthian church promoted a gospel promoting sex and food sacrifice to idols. There was some that did do these things as there are still some now days that do these things as they think these things don't matter.
However Paul was talking to two separate groups in 1 Corinthians 5 in that church, not just one.
He told those who were walking properly they had the right to cast out those who were not if they continue to do those ways.
We don't go around to find faults in others, but when we see them we are called to call them out on them.
There is teachings on both when one offends you and when also you see another sinning against another, and we are told and how to handle these situations and not once does it say mind your own business.
However Paul was talking to two separate groups in 1 Corinthians 5 in that church, not just one.
He told those who were walking properly they had the right to cast out those who were not if they continue to do those ways.
We don't go around to find faults in others, but when we see them we are called to call them out on them.
There is teachings on both when one offends you and when also you see another sinning against another, and we are told and how to handle these situations and not once does it say mind your own business.
K
Once again we do not look for the faults of others nor do we go and seek them out, but when we do see sinful actions we are called to pull them aside and call them out for it.
This does not mean we are not focused on Christ for our salvation, as it means we do focus on Him because we stand firm in everything He laid forth in the scriptures for us to follow.
This does not mean we are not focused on Christ for our salvation, as it means we do focus on Him because we stand firm in everything He laid forth in the scriptures for us to follow.
K
In post 4 I asked him a question, because if we are to mind our own business why does Jesus and Paul both show we can and tell us how to deal with a sinning person.
I was not finding fault in him or I would have flat out just came out and said he is a liar, but I posed it as a question to get his understanding. I see to much teaching now days that says one thing when clear scriptures say the opposite.
We should always believe and do as God said before men !!!
I was not finding fault in him or I would have flat out just came out and said he is a liar, but I posed it as a question to get his understanding. I see to much teaching now days that says one thing when clear scriptures say the opposite.
We should always believe and do as God said before men !!!