Revelation 17 and SDA/Sabbathkeepers' View of the Great Prostitute of Revelation

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sparkman

Guest
#1
As a member of an Armstrongite cult, I was taught that the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17 was the Roman Catholic Church and the daughters of the Great Prostitute were Protestants..in essence all Sunday-observing groups were considered to be part of Babylon the Great.

Be aware that MANY Sabbathkeepers hold this same view, and believe that you, as a normal Sunday-observing Christian, are part of this system. Some say that you are under the Mark of the Beast now. The Seventh Day Adventists teach that a Sunday observing law will be enacted in the end times, and if you don't keep the Sabbath at that time, you will be under the Mark of the Beast.

The Seventh Day Adventists hold this view of Revelation 17, and as a result, they do attempt to pull away both Roman Catholic and Protestant Christians from their faith. Make no mistake about this; they may seem friendly and nice but they are a cult and are deceived into doing Satan's work.

Their deceptive techniques are well-known. For example, they have public Bible studies, distributing advertisement for them, but often don't specify that they are part of the Seventh Day Adventist church. They do this because they have a bad reputation.

I have asked Seventh Day Adventists, including one who uses these forums, about their view of Revelation 17 and they would not answer this question plainly for me. However, I have learned from an ex Seventh Day Adventist pastor that they hold the same view that I was taught as an ex-Armstrongite. For a while, I was convinced that they were not cultic, but after learning their deception with regards to answering my question, I don't trust them whatsoever.

Many other Sabbathkeepers hold similar views, and consider other Christians to be part of Babylon..in fact, I imagine it is the majority of Sabbathkeepers who hold this view.

Here are the verses that are used (note that they infer the "mother of prostitutes" is the Roman Catholic church and that the prostitute daughters are Protestant Christians) :

Revelation 17 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. [SUP]2 [/SUP]With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.” [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The name written on her forehead was a mystery:

babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.


[SUP]6 [/SUP]I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. [SUP]9 [/SUP]“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. [SUP]10 [/SUP]They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. [SUP]12 [/SUP]“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. [SUP]13 [/SUP]They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. [SUP]14 [/SUP]They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. [SUP]16 [/SUP]The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled. [SUP]18 [/SUP]The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

As I have said on other threads, SDAs as well as many other Sabbathkeepers have a distorted view of history that they employ to claim that the true Church was deceived into departing from the Sabbath. Their view of history is full of distortions of fact, and their doctrine regarding the Sabbath is wrong as well. I have explained their misunderstandings concerning the Old Covenant on multiple threads.

Anyways, I have ceased considering anyone who holds this view of Revelation 17 as brothers in Christ..by inferring that the rest of Christianity, including Protestants, are part of Babylon, they label themselves as wolves and accusers of the brethren, doing Satan's work. I have no use for anyone who holds this view.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#2
At the risk of making light on this topic...here's another funny meme.

SDAs and some other Sabbathkeepers claim that the "Seal of God" is keeping the Sabbath, and that the "Mark of the Beast" relates to Sabbath-breaking.

The origin of this teaching was Joseph Bates, an unlearned sailor who was one of the founders of the SDA church.

Here's a good article on this topic:

What is the seal of the Holy Spirit?

A friend of mine gave me this meme and I thought it was hilarious so I will share it.
 

Attachments

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#3
I once worked as chaplain with another man who was SDA in a hospice group. What bothered me was his perception that I was not a Christian equal to him because I did not keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The fact that I was a woman probably bothered him as well!

It's just sad. As Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

And it is almost like some SDA's have more of a relationship with the Sabbath then they do Jesus Christ - the Lord of the Sabbath.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#4
I once worked as chaplain with another man who was SDA in a hospice group. What bothered me was his perception that I was not a Christian equal to him because I did not keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The fact that I was a woman probably bothered him as well!

It's just sad. As Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

And it is almost like some SDA's have more of a relationship with the Sabbath then they do Jesus Christ - the Lord of the Sabbath.
In addition, the SDA church permits abortions amongst its membership, and even performs elective abortions in its health care facilities..so much for the sixth commandment against murder.

They don't consider a fetus to be a human being, though..not until it is a "breather"...until it takes its first breath. This is a misunderstanding of Genesis 2:7. Adam was a special creation. Babies are on "life support" within the mother's womb and are living beings.
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,185
6,507
113
#5
There is the Great Whore who is seated on seven hills, then there are her daughters. Are you prepared to examine all of her daughters. As for the SDA alone, it does not fit as the mother of all whores, nor do any of her other daughters, but you do have one thing correct, they are whores.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,185
6,507
113
#6
Note: in order to understand what is posted it is first necessary to understand what whoredom is in the Word, then couple that with apostasy......

There is the Great Whore who is seated on seven hills, then there are her daughters. Are you prepared to examine all of her daughters. As for the SDA alone, it does not fit as the mother of all whores, nor do any of her other daughters, but you do have one thing correct, they are whores.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#7
There is the Great Whore who is seated on seven hills, then there are her daughters. Are you prepared to examine all of her daughters. As for the SDA alone, it does not fit as the mother of all whores, nor do any of her other daughters, but you do have one thing correct, they are whores.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you one of those who believes that the Roman Catholic Church is the Great Prostitute and that Sunday-observing Protestant churches are the daughters of the Great Prostitute?

If so, and especially if you are saying that Sunday-observing Protestants are the daughters of the Great Prostitute, you'd fit within the class of anti-Christ that I described above who are persecuting Christianity..children of the flesh as Galatians 4 calls them. I don't consider such individuals to be brothers in Christ. They are persecutors of Christ, just as Paul was before he was saved.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#8
Seventh Day Adventists view Sunday Observing Christians as "sheep of the other fold".

They refer to John 10:16 in this regard.

John 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd

They think that they are the "one flock" and that Sunday-observing Protestants and Roman Catholics will join them, the true faith, the remnant church, when things start go get bad during the Great Tribulation.

By the way, they are sheep-stealers. They want to appear as evangelical as possible in order to get as close as they can to the flock, and snatch them up. They are wolves in sheep clothing.

They have tried in recent years to appear as evangelical from the outside as they can, but it is only a fascade and is for this purpose.

In their theology, Sunday-keeping churches are part of Babylon and will be judged with the Anti-Christ. They will try to explain their way around this teaching by referring to "official church teachings", but they know that it is the view their church has on this topic, whether it's explicitly stated or not. If they try this game, ask them what THEY believe personally. Usually they won't answer you or will try to word their answer in a deceitful manner to hide the truth without directly telling a lie.

Their position is that there are some sincere Christians in other churches, but that they are "sincerely wrong". These Christians need to be brought into the "true fold" which is them, the remnant church.

As with Armstrongism, there is a sense of superiority...."we know more than you do"...

Here's a video by an ex Seventh Day Adventist pastor, Mark Martin, who outlines the differences between evangelical Christianity and Seventh Day Adventism. Mark sent me sermon tapes for several years after I left Armstrongism, for free. His tapes helped me a lot to understand the flawed teachings of Armstrongism (and SDAs) concerning the Sabbath, and to understand clearly justification by faith alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJNzC5aOaKg

He's one of the best sources of information for this topic.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#9
There is the Great Whore who is seated on seven hills, then there are her daughters. Are you prepared to examine all of her daughters. As for the SDA alone, it does not fit as the mother of all whores, nor do any of her other daughters, but you do have one thing correct, they are whores.
Not that I can tell by this reply, but I'm guessing JaumeJ is one of the individuals that I'm addressing. These guys love to hang around here and say just enough to make accusations toward Sunday observers, but not enough to get them banned :)

Many of them are conspiracy nuts who have adopted a false view of Church history that makes Constantine and the Roman Catholic church out to be the "bad guys" who changed the Sabbath. The Seventh Day Adventists largely tend to hold the same view, even though SDA church historian Samuele Bacchiocchi has refuted it, and it's well known that the early church, even as early as the book of Acts, were meeting on the first day. In fact, the only references to church meetings after the resurrection were on Sunday..the Sabbath references were ALL at Jewish synagogues for evangelism purposes by the apostle Paul. I believe Jewish Christians were going to the Synagogue to hear Scriptures read, but they were also meeting on Sunday to discuss them from a Christian perspective and to partake in communion, things they couldn't do in a Jewish synagogue. Christians were thrown out of the synagogue after the Jews started persecuting them after the destruction of the Temple in AD70. I have outlined this chronology.

By the way, the moral example of the SDAs is sorely lacking for me. One SDA guy that I have talked with engaged in locker room talk with me about other women, even though he is married (something even unbelievers would know better than to do). The claims to moral superiority simply don't wash with me. In addition, the murder of fetuses in their health care facilities is abominable. That's at least two commandments I've seen blatantly disregarded by SDAs. Squawking about the Sabbath does little to impress me. The guy I mentioned also told me twice I was likely going to lose my salvation for being an ex-Sabbathkeeper.

Lest anyone think I'm hard on these guys, realize that they persecute and proselytize continually so the truth about what I've seen needs to be addressed. They want to make themselves out to be the persecuted, but they come into the chat rooms regularly to try to proselytize, as well as doing it here. The clear accusation is that Sunday observers are in sin, and need to start keeping the Sabbath.

For instance, when this topic comes up, a common quote is "But as for me and my house, we will obey the Lord"..knowing that it's an explicit accusation that Sunday observers are not in obedience to God...and "if you love me keep my Commandments"...implying that this is talking about the Ten Commandments, rather than every commandment that is applicable to the Christian, not the ancient nation of Israel.
 
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vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
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#10
Question : Has nothing to do with sabbath but as Historic evidence, did the Roman Catholics Church persecute your brothers in Christ.
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,185
6,507
113
#11
The Great Whore is full of names of blasphemy. She is the Mother of Whores. There is no accusation here, no conspiracy, no recriminations, nothing negative, my post, that is post 5, is a suggestion that helps all understand that there is not just one denomination having the position of a Biblical whore in this age, ergo, please learn what whoredom is and who the whores are.

Please do not cast doubt on brothers in Jesus Christ; it is not edifying for anyone. God bless you.

Not that I can tell by this reply, but I'm guessing JaumeJ is one of the individuals that I'm addressing. These guys love to hang around here and say just enough to make accusations toward Sunday observers, but not enough to get them banned :)

Many of them are conspiracy nuts who have adopted a false view of Church history that makes Constantine and the Roman Catholic church out to be the "bad guys" who changed the Sabbath. The Seventh Day Adventists largely tend to hold the same view, even though SDA church historian Samuele Bacchiocchi has refuted it, and it's well known that the early church, even as early as the book of Acts, were meeting on the first day. In fact, the only references to church meetings after the resurrection were on Sunday..the Sabbath references were ALL at Jewish synagogues for evangelism purposes by the apostle Paul. I believe Jewish Christians were going to the Synagogue to hear Scriptures read, but they were also meeting on Sunday to discuss them from a Christian perspective and to partake in communion, things they couldn't do in a Jewish synagogue. Christians were thrown out of the synagogue after the Jews started persecuting them after the destruction of the Temple in AD70. I have outlined this chronology.

By the way, the moral example of the SDAs is sorely lacking for me. One SDA guy that I have talked with engaged in locker room talk with me about other women, even though he is married (something even unbelievers would know better than to do). The claims to moral superiority simply don't wash with me. In addition, the murder of fetuses in their health care facilities is abominable. That's at least two commandments I've seen blatantly disregarded by SDAs. Squawking about the Sabbath does little to impress me. The guy I mentioned also told me twice I was likely going to lose my salvation for being an ex-Sabbathkeeper.

Lest anyone think I'm hard on these guys, realize that they persecute and proselytize continually so the truth about what I've seen needs to be addressed. They want to make themselves out to be the persecuted, but they come into the chat rooms regularly to try to proselytize, as well as doing it here. The clear accusation is that Sunday observers are in sin, and need to start keeping the Sabbath.

For instance, when this topic comes up, a common quote is "But as for me and my house, we will obey the Lord"..knowing that it's an explicit accusation that Sunday observers are not in obedience to God...and "if you love me keep my Commandments"...implying that this is talking about the Ten Commandments, rather than every commandment that is applicable to the Christian, not the ancient nation of Israel.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#12
Question : Has nothing to do with sabbath but as Historic evidence, did the Roman Catholics Church persecute your brothers in Christ.
I see the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17 to be the Jewish religious hierarchy who used the Roman government to persecute Christians. This view is associated with the "early date" of the book of Revelation, which places it prior to the destruction of Rome. This view is much more in line with Scripture as a whole. God himself calls Israel and Jerusalem a "whore" in multiple places in Scripture, and the Jews consorted with the Romans to persecute Christians during the apostolic era.

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church persecuted Christians and put them to death, just like other evangelicals persecuted the Anabaptists, another Christian sect. Unfortunately, Christians have not been exempt from persecuting other Christians. The blame doesn't specifically belong to Roman Catholics.

By the way, my view on Rome is that it is an apostate church with many bad doctrines, but I don't think it is the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17. Jerusalem has seven "hills" or mountains associated with it, too.

A good book on this is Before Jerusalem Fell by Kenneth Gentry.

Cults of all stripes blame everything on Roman Catholics, and associate evangelical Christianity right along with them as "daughters" of the Great Prostitute. Seventh Day Adventists and many other Sabbatarians are part of those that do this. As an Armstrongite I fully bought into this view. As I've said, if someone holds this view of Revelation 17, they are persecutors of Christians and I don't consider them brothers in Christ. For a long time, I was open minded on this issue, but no longer.
 
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vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
#13
I see the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17 to be the Jewish religious hierarchy who used the Roman government to persecute Christians. This view is associated with the "early date" of the book of Revelation, which places it prior to the destruction of Rome. This view is much more in line with Scripture as a whole. God himself calls Israel and Jerusalem a "whore" in multiple places in Scripture, and the Jews consorted with the Romans to persecute Christians during the apostolic era.
I agree strongly with you, that the unbeliving jews did persecute Belivers in Christ. They even persecuted there own for beliving in our Lord and Savior.

But...

This is your interpretation of scripture in revelation 17, and you are entitled to your opinions just as everyone else. But what The Word of God says in Revelation 17 about the woman on the beast.

your statement above sparkman: I see the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17 to be the Jewish religious hierarchy who used the Roman government to persecute Christians.

Scripture classify the woman on the Beast has her own identity, and is clearly identified in the scripture exactly as she appears.

Does Judaism identity have connection with rev 17 ?

Revelation 17:4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality.

Also in Rev 18

Revelation 18:16 saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;


Blue in Judaism

A set of tzitzit with blue tekhelet thread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_in_Judaism#/media/File:Techelet.JPG also for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_in_Judaism




Yes, the Roman Catholic Church persecuted Christians and put them to death, just like other evangelicals persecuted the Anabaptists, another Christian sect. Unfortunately, Christians have not been exempt from persecuting other Christians. The blame doesn't specifically belong to Roman Catholics. .
Thank you for answering my Question :)

But there no such thing as a Christian persecuted another beliver in Christ. That individual that harms His brother in Christ till death or hates his Brother does not Know God nor Love God, or Christ nor the Holyspirit to begin with. Jesus taught not only His disciples, but this is for us aswell to identify who Belongs to Him. This is for Beliving Jew & Gentiles to be reminded.

John 15:20-21

"Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.

Also

1 John 4:20-21

If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.




By the way, my view on Rome is that it is an apostate church with many bad doctrines, but I don't think it is the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17. Jerusalem has seven "hills" or mountains associated with it, too.
Im very glad you are aware of that, but as stated above scripture is pretty clear on the woman on the Beast.



A good book on this is Before Jerusalem Fell by Kenneth Gentry.

Cults of all stripes blame everything on Roman Catholics, and associate evangelical Christianity right along with them as "daughters" of the Great Prostitute. Seventh Day Adventists and many other Sabbatarians are part of those that do this. As an Armstrongite I fully bought into this view. As I've said, if someone holds this view of Revelation 17, they are persecutors of Christians and I don't consider them brothers in Christ. For a long time, I was open minded on this issue, but no longer.
More time spent in God word is important than even in this age.

Yet i do like reading , will have to pass on the book you recommended. Duel that, The bible has more than enough meat in it while the Holyspirit helps us understand what written in the Word of God.

I don't belive evangelical Christian have anything to do with the woman on the Beast, but even you are aware by the Holyspirit there are sect claiming to be Christians that are leading many astray.but Jesus promise no one will snatch them out of My hand :) .

As a example in one of your threads some sect promoting Same-sex marriage as ok and such, are not part of God Church.

Take care sparkman, and hope you will let God Holyspirit lead you to all truth Brother :)

in a way this is not even off topic :)

Now back to OP
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,504
1,043
113
Australia
#14
The sparkman sermon against Sabbath keepers AGAIN. Stop looking at the faults of others. There is more to life than condemning the beliefs of Sabbath keepers.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#15
Rev 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

Rev 17:1-2
17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:


2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
KJV

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV




It's about Jerusalem, fallen in a false worship state by the "man of sin" coming there to sit in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God (2 Thess.2).
 
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sparkman

Guest
#16
The sparkman sermon against Sabbath keepers AGAIN. Stop looking at the faults of others. There is more to life than condemning the beliefs of Sabbath keepers.
I don't feel bad about it, as most Sabbathkeepers are implicitly or explicitly claiming that the rest of Christianity is in sin for non-observance. Some even claim that we are unsaved.


I was an ex Sabbathkeeper so I know what the majority, including the SDAs, teach..regardless if they admit it or not.

Exposing evil, such as making such claims, makes other Christians aware of the true nature of their teaching, and the fact that they are trying to bring the rest of Christianity under their fold as the "remnant church".

Again, if they want to claim that the rest of Christianity is under sin, I will simply assert and support the opposite..that they are under sin, and expose their hypocrisy. That way, seekers know what their claims are before they get involved with them.

They should be glad that I am giving them publicity if they are teaching such things...I am doing their job for them :)
 
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sparkman

Guest
#17
I agree strongly with you, that the unbeliving jews did persecute Belivers in Christ. They even persecuted there own for beliving in our Lord and Savior.

But...

This is your interpretation of scripture in revelation 17, and you are entitled to your opinions just as everyone else. But what The Word of God says in Revelation 17 about the woman on the beast.

your statement above sparkman: I see the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17 to be the Jewish religious hierarchy who used the Roman government to persecute Christians.

Scripture classify the woman on the Beast has her own identity, and is clearly identified in the scripture exactly as she appears.

Does Judaism identity have connection with rev 17 ?

Revelation 17:4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality.

Also in Rev 18

Revelation 18:16 saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;


Blue in Judaism

A set of tzitzit with blue tekhelet thread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_in_Judaism#/media/File:Techelet.JPG also for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_in_Judaism




Thank you for answering my Question :)

But there no such thing as a Christian persecuted another beliver in Christ. That individual that harms His brother in Christ till death or hates his Brother does not Know God nor Love God, or Christ nor the Holyspirit to begin with. Jesus taught not only His disciples, but this is for us aswell to identify who Belongs to Him. This is for Beliving Jew & Gentiles to be reminded.

John 15:20-21

"Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.

Also

1 John 4:20-21

If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.





Im very glad you are aware of that, but as stated above scripture is pretty clear on the woman on the Beast.




More time spent in God word is important than even in this age.

Yet i do like reading , will have to pass on the book you recommended. Duel that, The bible has more than enough meat in it while the Holyspirit helps us understand what written in the Word of God.

I don't belive evangelical Christian have anything to do with the woman on the Beast, but even you are aware by the Holyspirit there are sect claiming to be Christians that are leading many astray.but Jesus promise no one will snatch them out of My hand :) .

As a example in one of your threads some sect promoting Same-sex marriage as ok and such, are not part of God Church.

Take care sparkman, and hope you will let God Holyspirit lead you to all truth Brother :)

in a way this is not even off topic :)

Now back to OP
The partial preterist view relates these Scriptures to the Jewish nation very effectively. In this view, the book of Revelation was written prior to AD67 when the siege of Jerusalem began, and terminated by the end of AD70 with the destruction of the Temple. That would be my position on this issue. The majority of Revelation related to the judgment of God upon the Jews. I am not saying that Revelation has been fulfilled, and Christ will return bodily at the end of the age to judge both the righteous and unrighteous.

This view is reflected in Kenneth Gentry's book "Before Jerusalem Fell" which proposes the earlier dating of Revelation. It is more coherent than the views that are more common in today's evangelical circles. These views are mostly the product of the time period after World War II and are not reflected in earlier theology.

Regarding the references to scarlet and purple, etcetera, those references can be nicely related to the curtain in the Temple, and the clothing of the high priest.

As another post noted, the phrase "great city" is used explicitly in Revelation to refer to Jerusalem. God also calls Jerusalem a prostitute in several places in the Old Testament. I will leave you to watch this video and to find the references if you want..if you don't want to invest the effort, it's fine, but I will state simply that the view is coherent, and that many Sabbathkeepers and other Christians are operating under false assumptions, in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7cEW4MJac&list=PLKnzCuBYVJm56E380NGG2ylOcc6LoCqOW&index=2

I don't think you realize that this view of Revelation leads many Sabbathkeepers (not all) to think that we, as non-Sabbathkeepers, are part of this fake religious system, which descended from Roman Catholicism, and are daughters of the Great Prostitute, and that they are outside the system and are the "true church". That is part of the worldview that they operate from, and it is based on a faulty premise that the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17 is the Roman Catholic church.

To be honest, I find this almost-strictly futuristic view of Revelation to be nonsense as John was writing to seven churches who were undergoing persecution, and he was attempting to console them. He spoke of things "soon to come" as the first three verses indicate. "Soon to come" doesn't mean 2000 years later..it means "soon". Playing games such as using the "thousand years as a day" verse simply doesn't make sense to me.

Read the first three verses of Revelation, and ask yourself if the common evangelical view concerning the book really reflects what those three verses indicates as the purpose. They indicate impending events that were about to happen SOON, not 2000 years in the future.

Some of the events obviously are futuristic, such as the bodily return of Jesus Christ, but most of the events are not. John was writing in apocalyptic language, and the hearers knew exactly who he was referring to. Otherwise, the communication would not be profitable. We first must understand what the communication meant to them before we can interpret it for our day.

Regarding the Roman Catholic church, it is an apostate church with bad doctrine (some of which comes close to idolatry) but I do not think it is the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17. I realize that the Reformers held that view, but they were caught up in bitter hatred toward Roman Catholicism, and this hatred was not without reason.

Anyways, this view seems more coherent to me, and gets me out of the "pin the tail on the AntiChrist" view, and it also decimates a big piece of the arguments of most Sabbathkeepers...not that it matters because the Old Covenant is done away with, and so is the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16-17, Hebrews 4:9-10, II Corinthians 3, Galatians 3 and 4, Ephesians 2:13-15, Acts 15, Hebrews 8 and 9, Romans 7:1-6).

I am getting good..I can make those Scriptural references right off the top of my head :)
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,185
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#18
There is never evil in obeying the Ten Commandments, especially when they are inscribed on our inwardparts and kept in our hearts.

What is evil is to change the Word of God to suit a dogman made by men.

Shabbat Shalom. Peace to all on this blessed day, amen.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
28
#19
Joidevivre,
re: "...Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man..."


And for what purpose was the Sabbath - the 7th day of the week - made?
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
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#20
This is not really off topic since all these things connect to each other :)

I have view the video you link in your reply, hopefully when free time is avaliable and if your in the chat, i will like to discuss certain things upon it.

Question : Sparkman if Jerusalem in 70AD was mystery Babylon , then who was the Beast & the False Prophet.

If you imply Nero my guessing, then who would be candidate for False Prophet.

Now come the study up for everyone :)

Shalom