Revelation 17 and SDA/Sabbathkeepers' View of the Great Prostitute of Revelation

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sparkman

Guest
#21
Joidevivre,
re: "...Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man..."


And for what purpose was the Sabbath - the 7th day of the week - made?
Why does a non-Christian, such as your profile says that you are, care anything about what Christ said?

Are you one of those who claims that the rest of Christianity is following a pagan religion, and you are the true follower of God? That's what I suspect. :)

I was part of an Armstrongite group who suffered from that delusion.

You need to read Colossians 2:16-17 which says that the Sabbath was a shadow of Christ. Christ is our true spiritual rest (Matt 11:28-30). Place your faith in Him and enter into your spiritual rest (Heb 4:9-10).

Additionally, view the following Scriptures, which say that the Old Covenant is no longer in effect: II Cor 3, Acts 15, Hebrews 8 and 9, Galatians 3 and 4, Ephesians 2:13-15, and Romans 7:1-7.

Ask yourself the question..if the Sabbath still applies, why was Sabbath-breaking never mentioned on any of the sin lists of the Gentiles? Why did Paul never provide any instruction to the Gentiles in regards to keeping the Sabbath? The same observation applies about clean/unclean meat laws.

Notice that all of the references to the Sabbath, after the resurrection, involved meetings in synagogues, and not church meetings. They involved Paul going to synagogues to reach unconverted people, who were congregated there....obviously an evangelism effort.

Notice that there are more than once reference to church meetings on Sunday, and that Christ appeared on Sundays each time after the resurrection when the days were mentioned..never on Sabbath. :)

Jewish Christians continued to observe some elements of Judaism, even circumcision (Acts 21), but there's no evidence that Gentile Christians did. In fact, Galatians was addressing a group of heretics who were claiming that the Old Covenant still applied to Gentile Christians.

Christians probably did frequent the synagogue to hear Scriptures read, as the scrolls were stored there, but they also had private meetings on Sunday in order to observe communion and to talk about the Scriptures from a Christian perspective. After the Jews started persecuting Christians following the destruction of the Temple (due to their fleeing from Jerusalem), they migrated away from their synagogue meetings and just continued to meet on Sunday.

As an Armstrongite, I believed their distorted views on church history including the claim that the Roman Catholic church and/or the Roman government changed the Sabbath, but it's a bunch of nonsense. I've written about that on other threads. They distort history to suit their purpose, and a lot of their rhetoric comes from Alexander Hislop.

If anyone is troubled by this, I'd read Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. Dale is an ex Seventh Day Adventist pastor and teacher.

So, rstrats..why are you interested in what Christ said if you are a non-Christian? Are you one of those who thinks you represent the true faith, and the rest of Christianity is in error?
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
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#22
sparkman,
re: "Why does a non-Christian, such as your profile says that you are, care anything about what Christ said?"

Some people like to collect stamps, others delight in deciphering the prophecies of Nostradamus, or studying the life of Albert Schweitzer. I seem to be simply hardwired to somehow be curious about matters being discussed with regard to religious issues. I just find it a satisfying diversion as we move along in this life that we find ourselves in. More than that I can't say.



re: "Are you one of those who claims that the rest of Christianity is following a pagan religion..."

No.



re: "Are you one of those who thinks you represent the true faith"

Since I don't know what represents the true faith I would have to say that I am not one of those.
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
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#23
The partial preterist view relates these Scriptures to the Jewish nation very effectively. In this view, the book of Revelation was written prior to AD67 when the siege of Jerusalem began, and terminated by the end of AD70 with the destruction of the Temple. That would be my position on this issue. The majority of Revelation related to the judgment of God upon the Jews. I am not saying that Revelation has been fulfilled, and Christ will return bodily at the end of the age to judge both the righteous and unrighteous.
Just a question, are you a preterist or are you studying there view ?

Since the video you've shared in the link points at Nero as the Beast at 1.33.00 of the video, how do you imply Nero as the one that destroys the Harlot ? We have historical evidence how Nero died, he ran away afraid as a coward and suicide himself, or according to historical view points , his private secretary Epaphroditos perform the task to take his life.

Revelation 19:19-21 is very clear on what occurs to the Beast and the False prophet & the Kings of the earth.

the Beast & the 10 kings were the ones that burn her 'mystery babylon the woman ride the beast' with fire Rev 17:16.

Revelation 19:19-21 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

If we are using Historical views, how do we in-put Nero, or Vespasian & Titus into Revelation 19:19-21 to fit. If we know how they died and the location of there death does not line up with scripture in Rev 19:19-21.

Sparkman you will also have to provide evidence, who was the second beast in revelation 'false prophet' who was capture along with the Beast.

it's just a question Sparkman, don't think i am trying to put you in the spot light or anything, but these thing have to be examine , answer if we are ruling that Nero was the Beast in Revelation.


Regarding the Roman Catholic church, it is an apostate church with bad doctrine (some of which comes close to idolatry) but I do not think it is the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17. I realize that the Reformers held that view, but they were caught up in bitter hatred toward Roman Catholicism, and this hatred was not without reason.
You know something that is very interesting in that video you shared with me Josephus wrote.

'It was a Babylonian curtain, embroidered with blue, and fine line, and scarlet, and purple, and of a contexture that was truly wonderful' (Josephus, Wars V.5.4.)

amazing even Josephus records in his documentation the colors Blue , scarlet & purple

Where can the color blue be found in Revelations 17 & 18 on the Harlot or anywhere in revelation ?

The Ephod

Exodus 39:1-2

And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses. And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

Blue Robe of Ehod

Exodus 28:31

31“You shall make the robe of the ephod all of blue.

If God was the one that gave these details, and even Josephus records prove the exact details, why revelation 17 & 18 does not match, with the details we are given that the harlot clothed in ?

Rev 17:4
The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,

Rev 18:12 cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,

These are just question regarding scripture. As for what is stated by you above sparkman:
Roman Catholic church, it is an apostate church with bad doctrine

Let God be Judge of that Church. :)

Shalom
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
28
#24
re: "Roman Catholic church, it is an apostate church..."

Since apostasy means "an abandoning of what was once believed in" I question if 'apostate' can be applied to the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not aware of any initial beliefs that they later abandoned.