demons humans salvation
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If the enemy repented and, at a later date, an opportunity to take the throne presented itself, do you suppose he would leap at the chance? God knows that the enemy is the father of lies and so God can clearly see all the intents of his heart, as they became revealed in his rebellion. For the enemy to repent it would go contrary to his identity. He has no desire to repent because ultimately he has no desire to be subservient to Christ.
The question is obviously hypothetical but one would have to intentionally ignore the character of the enemy to even consider it. If he repented? It would all but be a ruse, to once again set up an attempt to take the throne. He knows his end, and that's why he is trying to take as many of God's creation with him. His way of biting back at God, at the very least scratching to leave a mark upon God's heart for those lost that He desired to be saved.
The question is obviously hypothetical but one would have to intentionally ignore the character of the enemy to even consider it. If he repented? It would all but be a ruse, to once again set up an attempt to take the throne. He knows his end, and that's why he is trying to take as many of God's creation with him. His way of biting back at God, at the very least scratching to leave a mark upon God's heart for those lost that He desired to be saved.
Blain, we have a leeettle problemmm here..... If Satan is allowed to repent, then every soul currently would have to be given the same privilege, for the demons are responsible for leading them away with temptation. Now, if all these are forgiven, we now have one of the teachings of universal salvation, that those in Hell are temporary until they "pay their dues" & will eventually go to Heaven too.
Philippians 4:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be anxious(worry) for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.
Philippians 4:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be anxious(worry) for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.
C
I don't think all angels and humans are on the same level:
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Do you see the contrast?
Heb 12:3 ¶ For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Do you see how we are treated differently?
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Do you see the contrast?
Heb 12:3 ¶ For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Do you see how we are treated differently?
U
Hmm I forgot about that verse which is good news for me....because I made an oath seriously that if God gives me the remote control (when I get to heaven) for hell I will give satan and his minions a piece of my mind....they would wish they weren't even created.....especially the control for the butane/fuel and sulphur in hell....and no I am not joking....I am serious that bleeper will wish he never existed.....
Who created hell and when was it created? why does Genesis not say that in the beginning God created the heavens, a fiery hell and the earth? why was it not made known from the outset that if humans disobey God's commands they would be escorted to this place upon death of their flesh and bone? what about the first created human couple (adam and eve) after their death were they sent to this fiery hell? and who escorted them to this place? where is this fiery hell? is it in another dimension? how can the flame burn outside of planet earth it would need the right conditions to burn which has to have the same chemical elements and natural conditions that planet earth has? how can a spirit person feel pain if there is no flesh or any nerve endings? is hell really a flaming chamber of horrors and torment everlasting where bad spirit creatures reside and where sinful or wicked and unrepentant human beings go after their death on earth? or is hell symbolic of something else by association? is hell just the abode of the dead where life just ends and nothing else can ever happen except that the very fibers of your being returns to the chemical elements that flesh and bone was created from in the very first place? I wonder what the real truth is about hell? can there be many truths or just the one truth? if there is only one truth then why is there a difference of interpretation and opinion of the Holy Scriptures?
I'm just answering off the cuff
hell, 'gehenna' or the 'lake of fire' I think is only referred to in the NT. I think it is a residence after the final judgement. Does it exist now? Hard to say because heaven time is not necessarily the same as earth time. It does not necessarily work by the same rules as our spacetime. Might be a different timeline. For our time, I think many would say sheol (a temporary residence for the dead) always existed, but hell (gehenna) is the final place where even death will die.
I believe Genesis only tells us a little bit based on what we need to know. It's not exhaustive or analytically detailed. In fact I believe it might be talking about a recreation after the fallout of satan's rebellion, not the original creation of the earth. BUT I could be wrong, god is free to correct me.
Did adam and eve go to sheol? Maybe, but I doubt they went to hell, because before Christ how could there be a final judgement.
I think you pose some good answers to your own questions. Heaven and God's realm I think are a 'dimension' which contains our dimension. Our physical phenomenon like physical fire and physical pain function by the rules of our lower dimension, but they are parallels of greater realities which are not limited by the same rules -- although they still function by certain principles... what you might call God's truths.
Some people hold that the meaning of 'unquenchable flames' is that the flames are unstoppable until they have completely consumed. Meaning that they completely destroy the souls ... not that they go on burning forever.
As for the nature of the punishment, it is also said that it is the result of people being allowed to be their own gods or have their own gods, while being completely aware of the truth of the real God... that it is a sort of 'be careful what you wish for' because they get what they wanted but it was a foolish thing to want, and that is where the torture comes from. Ultimately self-induced by the revealing of their nature.
I can't say if it's everlasting or simply unstoppable annihilation. But I do believe the suffering is a result of people realizing the truth of what their lives revealed about their eternal nature. God have mercy on us all.
There is One Truth but it is so vast and onwards-expanding that it will take all of our perspectives unified in Christ to see it fully. There is difference in interpretation because the enemy labors to keep us divided, because there is a spiritual war in this time. The key to seeing the whole truth is seeing God... focusing on the father, son, holy spirit, as people, relating to them as people. We can't handle the truth without them, so when we try to do it our own way outside of relationship with them, we inhibit the process of growing up in that truth.
God bless you brother. We don't know it all and that's ok because we know who does.
hell, 'gehenna' or the 'lake of fire' I think is only referred to in the NT. I think it is a residence after the final judgement. Does it exist now? Hard to say because heaven time is not necessarily the same as earth time. It does not necessarily work by the same rules as our spacetime. Might be a different timeline. For our time, I think many would say sheol (a temporary residence for the dead) always existed, but hell (gehenna) is the final place where even death will die.
I believe Genesis only tells us a little bit based on what we need to know. It's not exhaustive or analytically detailed. In fact I believe it might be talking about a recreation after the fallout of satan's rebellion, not the original creation of the earth. BUT I could be wrong, god is free to correct me.
Did adam and eve go to sheol? Maybe, but I doubt they went to hell, because before Christ how could there be a final judgement.
I think you pose some good answers to your own questions. Heaven and God's realm I think are a 'dimension' which contains our dimension. Our physical phenomenon like physical fire and physical pain function by the rules of our lower dimension, but they are parallels of greater realities which are not limited by the same rules -- although they still function by certain principles... what you might call God's truths.
Some people hold that the meaning of 'unquenchable flames' is that the flames are unstoppable until they have completely consumed. Meaning that they completely destroy the souls ... not that they go on burning forever.
As for the nature of the punishment, it is also said that it is the result of people being allowed to be their own gods or have their own gods, while being completely aware of the truth of the real God... that it is a sort of 'be careful what you wish for' because they get what they wanted but it was a foolish thing to want, and that is where the torture comes from. Ultimately self-induced by the revealing of their nature.
I can't say if it's everlasting or simply unstoppable annihilation. But I do believe the suffering is a result of people realizing the truth of what their lives revealed about their eternal nature. God have mercy on us all.
There is One Truth but it is so vast and onwards-expanding that it will take all of our perspectives unified in Christ to see it fully. There is difference in interpretation because the enemy labors to keep us divided, because there is a spiritual war in this time. The key to seeing the whole truth is seeing God... focusing on the father, son, holy spirit, as people, relating to them as people. We can't handle the truth without them, so when we try to do it our own way outside of relationship with them, we inhibit the process of growing up in that truth.
God bless you brother. We don't know it all and that's ok because we know who does.
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B
I have been digging around and like you I found nothing, (its terrible when even the concordance lets you down LOL) but I came across this on another thread, I have often wondered the same as you;
John 3:16 says God so loved THE WORLD and WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM has eternal life.
not just Jews or any one particular group of people.
John 3:16 says God so loved THE WORLD and WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM has eternal life.
not just Jews or any one particular group of people.
C
Hell is eternal as we will see but Jesus said "I am alive forevermore" and they are the same words translated "forever and ever". If some versions translate God as everlasting then you have no choice but to translate hell as being everlasting because the different translations use the same words for both hell and God. Since the old heavens and the earth will pass away, the old location of hell will be passed away or thrown into the new location which is the lake of fire.
Jesus said,"I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore [eis tous aionas ton aionon] (Rev. 1:17-18, NASB).
Revelation 20:10: "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon]."
Not one of the translations on Biblehub translates "aionion" as anything other than "eternal" or similar.
Exodus 3:2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.
The fact that the bush didn't burn up means the fire is eternal.
Jesus said,"I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore [eis tous aionas ton aionon] (Rev. 1:17-18, NASB).
Revelation 20:10: "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon]."
Not one of the translations on Biblehub translates "aionion" as anything other than "eternal" or similar.
Exodus 3:2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.
The fact that the bush didn't burn up means the fire is eternal.
LUKE 13:3. - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
11PETER 3:9. - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
PROVERBS 29:18. - Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keeps the law, happy is he.
PSALMS 73:27. -For, lo, they that are far from Thee shall perish: Thou hast destroyed all them
that go a whoring from Thee.
JOHN 3:16. - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
21. But he that does truth, comes to The Light, that his deeds may be made manifest
that they are wrought in God.
11PETER 3:9. - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
PROVERBS 29:18. - Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keeps the law, happy is he.
PSALMS 73:27. -For, lo, they that are far from Thee shall perish: Thou hast destroyed all them
that go a whoring from Thee.
JOHN 3:16. - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
21. But he that does truth, comes to The Light, that his deeds may be made manifest
that they are wrought in God.
don't you worry for a minute 
there's not one whom God wants to save who won't be saved.
there's not one whom God wants to save who won't be saved.
John 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 Timothy 2:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, [SUP]2 [/SUP]for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. [SUP]3 [/SUP]This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:4 (NLT)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
1 Timothy 2:4 (NRSV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:4 (TEV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]who wants everyone to be saved and to come to know the truth.
God wants everyone to be saved..... but everyone makes their own choice by the fruit they bear.