What happened to the "John 3:16 won't get anyone into Heaven " thread?
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This is all we know of what happened with the thief on the cross and ANYTHING else would be ADDING to the Word of God.
Luke 23:39-43 (KJV)
39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:39-43 (KJV)
39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Yeah, they were in great expectation for Messiah so it was likely was all he was saying
Luke 3:15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
He wasnt saying that that was proof (but it was enough to convince him maybe) I am pretty difficult to convince of things even when trying to convince myself and combing through both sides of a thing but once and awhile I might feel convinced of something without it but I would rather refrain from sharing any of that openly.
Luke 3:15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
He wasnt saying that that was proof (but it was enough to convince him maybe) I am pretty difficult to convince of things even when trying to convince myself and combing through both sides of a thing but once and awhile I might feel convinced of something without it but I would rather refrain from sharing any of that openly.
Good scripture..so the chances where both thieves were water baptized by John if we assume everyone was except for the religious people.
So in essence water baptism didn't save the other thief.
This water baptism thing that is needed in order to receive remission of sins and to be regenerated by the holy Spirit has so many wholes in it and violates clear scripture that says the complete opposite I find it hard how anyone could even for a second entertain the thought of it.
So in essence water baptism didn't save the other thief.
This water baptism thing that is needed in order to receive remission of sins and to be regenerated by the holy Spirit has so many wholes in it and violates clear scripture that says the complete opposite I find it hard how anyone could even for a second entertain the thought of it.
That's the thing, I'm not going to assume, I don't think you should either. What is there is what He wanted us to know. It would be a circus if everyone just uses their assumptions to teach with. They will say " well the other thief didn't believe and he needed forgiveness as wel (with the water)l so fourth and so on " just adding ... Something I'm not willing to do.
To be honest with you, I don't know what the "regeneration" is talking about. I think sometimes we try to label things to bring them under some kind of control in our understanding of them, and I don't understand that label.
If it was baptism that "saved" someone, then, yes... the apostles would have to have been baptized again, after Jesus' death. At least that assumes that the baptism that Jesus and his disciples were doing was the same type as John's baptism. I believe that to be true, since the baptism into the kingdom couldn't have happened until after Jesus' death and resurrection.
I don't know of any scriptural proof that the apostles were baptized after Jesus' death, except, of course, Paul.
If it was baptism that "saved" someone, then, yes... the apostles would have to have been baptized again, after Jesus' death. At least that assumes that the baptism that Jesus and his disciples were doing was the same type as John's baptism. I believe that to be true, since the baptism into the kingdom couldn't have happened until after Jesus' death and resurrection.
I don't know of any scriptural proof that the apostles were baptized after Jesus' death, except, of course, Paul.
I agree....some people see the word "baptized" and all they can think about is water. Being baptized has been used as a representation in scripture and obviously it speaks of what happened to believers in Christ when they believed.
Acts 10:43-48 clearly shows that people get water baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit when they were baptized into the body of Christ when they believed after hearing the gospel of the grace of Christ. Eph. 1:13 shows this truth too.
Here is an example of baptize being used in relation to Moses as a representative of something else besides water.
1 Corinthians 10:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Acts 10:43-48 clearly shows that people get water baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit when they were baptized into the body of Christ when they believed after hearing the gospel of the grace of Christ. Eph. 1:13 shows this truth too.
Here is an example of baptize being used in relation to Moses as a representative of something else besides water.
1 Corinthians 10:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
R
And we can see how the devil uses that SAME subtle like way to corrupt the gospel:
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." 2 Cor 11:3-4
Look at post #23 and the doctrine contained in the long post I linked. The heresy is cleverly hidden in there, among many other Scriptures. It is subtle and worded in a way to deceive. Whether he means to intentionally deceive or not is irrelevant. The fact that he says our sins are washed away in the waters of baptism flies contrary to Rev 1:5!
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Rev 1:5
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." 2 Cor 11:3-4
Look at post #23 and the doctrine contained in the long post I linked. The heresy is cleverly hidden in there, among many other Scriptures. It is subtle and worded in a way to deceive. Whether he means to intentionally deceive or not is irrelevant. The fact that he says our sins are washed away in the waters of baptism flies contrary to Rev 1:5!
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Rev 1:5
R
Abraham was never baptized or followed the law, he was saved by faith! Then baptism, circumcision, the Sabbath, etc. came in through Moses.
The law was fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
We are saved only by believing and having faith in the work of the cross 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. For that we should all be thankful. I know without the work of the cross I would be a sinner worthy of death and hell-bound, but through the Lords work I am righteous.
The law was fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
We are saved only by believing and having faith in the work of the cross 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. For that we should all be thankful. I know without the work of the cross I would be a sinner worthy of death and hell-bound, but through the Lords work I am righteous.
I agree.....the disciples would have to be water baptized again after Christ's death and resurrection in order to receive remission of sins and for regeneration to occur as some teach.
Regeneration is being born-again by the Holy Spirit which some people say happens only when you get water baptized. - along with this is when people receive the remission of their sins according to their theory.
I don't know of any scriptures that say the disciples got water baptized after Christ's death and resurrection either.
There seems to be more then meets the eye to water baptism then what some have taught.
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject...
Regeneration is being born-again by the Holy Spirit which some people say happens only when you get water baptized. - along with this is when people receive the remission of their sins according to their theory.
I don't know of any scriptures that say the disciples got water baptized after Christ's death and resurrection either.
There seems to be more then meets the eye to water baptism then what some have taught.
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject...