What happened to the "John 3:16 won't get anyone into Heaven " thread?
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I apologize if this sounds rude, but.... are you purposely being dense here?
Nobody has claimed that the thief had been baptized.
It was speculated by another poster (NOT HRFTD) that it was possible, even likely that he had been baptized by John. But that poster went on to say that there is NO WAY OF KNOWING that for sure.
That was the end of that discussion.
NOBODY is claiming the thief was baptized.
There is nothing wrong with speculation... it is curiosity and speculation that lead us into studies that will increase our knowledge.
Nobody has claimed that the thief had been baptized.
It was speculated by another poster (NOT HRFTD) that it was possible, even likely that he had been baptized by John. But that poster went on to say that there is NO WAY OF KNOWING that for sure.
That was the end of that discussion.
NOBODY is claiming the thief was baptized.
There is nothing wrong with speculation... it is curiosity and speculation that lead us into studies that will increase our knowledge.
The thief wasn't baptized, but he was saved. If this speculation was thrown out, there wouldn't be all this arguing & blaming.
2 Timothy 2:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; [SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Seems to me there's a risk of overthrowing someone's faith with this mess..... yet some say "we're learning". ARE WE?
2 Timothy 3:1-9 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [SUP]5 [/SUP]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Now, just how many of these listed puts one into this category? I sure wouldn't want to be found running on the edge.....
2 Timothy 2:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; [SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Seems to me there's a risk of overthrowing someone's faith with this mess..... yet some say "we're learning". ARE WE?
2 Timothy 3:1-9 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [SUP]5 [/SUP]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Now, just how many of these listed puts one into this category? I sure wouldn't want to be found running on the edge.....
I contend that if someone's faith is "overthrown" by another person's speculation about a scripture, while that person repeatedly reassures listeners that it is ONLY speculation, then that person's faith wasn't there to begin with.
the issue being speculated on is not even an issue of salvation, merely an observation about what scripture clearly said.
Profane and vain babblings? Hardly.
the issue being speculated on is not even an issue of salvation, merely an observation about what scripture clearly said.
Profane and vain babblings? Hardly.
When one considers how many "babies" there are in the modern church, it wouldn't take all that much to topple them. Just because they're not as old as they should be doesn't mean I should be so irresponsible to take that risk of hurting them.
I would challenge you to search the scriptures to see if such "speculations" are allowed. I have difficulty considering "speculating" with Jesus. Heresy is heresy, & "what ifs" & "maybes" aren't that far behind.
I'm not saying as a judge that this is sinful & damnable, but it looks like it could go that direction, with the fussing & all.
I would challenge you to search the scriptures to see if such "speculations" are allowed. I have difficulty considering "speculating" with Jesus. Heresy is heresy, & "what ifs" & "maybes" aren't that far behind.
I'm not saying as a judge that this is sinful & damnable, but it looks like it could go that direction, with the fussing & all.