So what about the fourth commandment?

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prove-all

prove-all

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disciplemike said:
it's no different now that in ancient Israel.

people will find dozens of reasons (or excuses) why they are not going to obey God.
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Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


​


For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained
to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,
[lawlessness]and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.​
​
 
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beta

beta

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Dan_473 said:
ST. MATTHEW 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
ST. MATTHEW 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
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Free.....to do what ? people seem to take this to extraordinary length. Whatever people think it means it does not include 'to continue in sin.
 
prove-all

prove-all

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beta said:
The way it seems to me is that people who call themselves 'Christians don't actually follow Christ
but Paul. This is just the same as people only hearing Moses and not God. History is repeating itself
in the modern Christian....they are quick to quote Paul - not Jesus.
!
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And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead
.​
 
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Dan_473

Dan_473

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disciplemike said:
I don't think so Dan.
God says, (in the law of Moses) that we should have no other god before him.

How is that kept by loving your neighbor?
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Do you disagree that 'All of Moses' Teachings are summarized in a single statement, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself."'?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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beta said:
Free.....to do what ? people seem to take this to extraordinary length. Whatever people think it means it does not include 'to continue in sin.
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right! and it's not a sin to not pay the temple tax if you are free from it!
 
beta

beta

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Dan_473 said:
right! and it's not a sin to not pay the temple tax if you are free from it!
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not sure what you are talking about. Who today is required to pay temple tax ? can you explain ?
 
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UndoubtingThomas

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Matthew 5:17 Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" and what he meant was to show us that the Law was possible to live by and that the Prophets were not liars. The Sabbath is God's Law now. Galations 4:5 "But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship."
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

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(transferred from another thread)

Look at it this way:

Thou shalt not murder - Messiah took it to another level. If you hate your brother without cause, it is a sin like murder.

Thou shalt not commit adultery - Messiah took it to another level. If you look at a woman with lust in your heart, it is sin just like the physical act.

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. - think about it.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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beta said:
not sure what you are talking about. Who today is required to pay temple tax ? can you explain ?
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Why does Jesus say the children are free?

ST. MATTHEW 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
ST. MATTHEW 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
ST. MATTHEW 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
ST. MATTHEW 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
 
beta

beta

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Dan_473 said:
Why does Jesus say the children are free?

ST. MATTHEW 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
ST. MATTHEW 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
ST. MATTHEW 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
ST. MATTHEW 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
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sorry Dan...I must be really dense ! how does that affect Christians today ? are you comparing it to 'tithing ? why don't you say what you mean.
 
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RobbyEarl

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From reading through the the last couple of pages of this thread, There seems to be some confusion of keeping law and the grace of God. One would have to ask them self, if keeping law is good enough, then why did Jesus die on the cross? Why not just keep the law? The answer is, we cannot keep the law no matter how hard we try. Trusting in what we do is self righteousness.

Now, with that said, when a person gets saved by faith in the work of the Cross and not their own works, then the Holy Spirit produces fruit in that person as long as their faith is placed in the work of the Cross. They are not who they used to be. Before salvation, we rolled in and enjoyed our sin, called are friends the next day and laughed about it. But after salvation, we despised sin and hated when we committed sin.

So what changes, do we place our faith in keeping law which we cannot do, proven by the need of the Cross. Or do we place our faith in the work of the Cross and allow the Holy Spirit to work in us and through us to produce good fruit and exercise the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

The moment we say "I" do this is the moment that God backs off. The Lord your God is a jealous God.

It is by Him and through Him and to Him.

He that has ears to hear and eyes to see, let them hear and see. Amen.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

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Obeying God does not equal making my own salvation.

Remember, staying on topic with the OP,
God says, "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy"

not "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy, and if you do I will give you eternal salvation"
no, that is not what the commandment says.

No one here has said you must keep the Sabbath to earn eternal salvation.
So I can't defend something that has not been said.

The Sabbath is God's holy day. Do with it what you will.
 
G

garee

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disciplemike said:
Obeying God does not equal making my own salvation.

Remember, staying on topic with the OP,
God says, "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy"

not "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy, and if you do I will give you eternal salvation"
no, that is not what the commandment says.

No one here has said you must keep the Sabbath to earn eternal salvation.
So I can't defend something that has not been said.

The Sabbath is God's holy day. Do with it what you will.
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I don't think the intention was to do what we want .But a day set aside where we can do the works of bringing the gospel into the world in respect to the kind of fast along with prayer which the disciples could not cast out those lying spirits (demons) . The kind of fast (good news) that can chase the father of lies away, as God gives the person the His faith.

Its just we are not judge one another in respect to ceremonial laws . The refomation has come, Christ has come in the flesh.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Col 2:14
 
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disciplemike

disciplemike

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garee said:
I don't think the intention was to do what we want .But a day set aside where we can do the works of bringing the gospel into the world in respect to the kind of fast along with prayer which the disciples could not cast out those lying spirits (demons) . The kind of fast (good news) that can chase the father of lies away, as God gives the person the His faith.

Its just we are not judge one another in respect to ceremonial laws . The refomation has come, Christ has come in the flesh.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Col 2:14
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My friend, Colossians 2 is often used for a proof text against the Sabbath. In my opinion, we were taught wrong about this passage.
What principalities and powers were spoiled?
Were these principalities and powers the ones that created the Sabbath day?
Does the verse say, "do not observe the Sabbath day"?
Or does it say, "let no man judge you ... in respect of an holyday"?

I will not let anyone judge me because I do observe the Sabbath and dietary laws.
I am not judging you either for your choice.
Just don't try to make the passage say something it does not say.
 
G

garee

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disciplemike said:
I don't think so Dan.
God says, (in the law of Moses) that we should have no other god before him.

How is that kept by loving your neighbor?
Click to expand...
Its a spiritual law. I would say by not putting your neighbor before Him, or your brother and sister mother and father (anyone) .

Moses law is God's law. His whole law (from Genesis through Revelation) is His word.The law an testimony speak of His whole word (no philosophical theories as the wisdom of man.)

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Moral laws are needed to govern natural man showing us the whole world is under the wrath of God. This shown by dead corrupted bodies.

The moral will not perish until the heavens and earth perish .They will not be needed to govern us when we as new creatures given a new eternal spirit and new heart.This is when we do receive our new incorruptible bodies.

The handwriting of ceremonial laws that was against the outward Jew who hoped in his flesh could profit for something was taken away and nailed to the cross, which the shadows pointed to . This in respect to the moral law.Christ paid the eternal wage in respect to those who sin, those who do not walk after the flesh that He call new creatures. By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight

The refomation has come . The veil that represented the flesh of Christ was torn showing the new way with Jews and gentiles alike.

It did not blot out the moral law needed to preserve society until the last day.That would be to promote anarchy . Where there is not law there is no trespass.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:17

There is nothing in that context that says he blotted out the moral law.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.


Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
 
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disciplemike

disciplemike

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brother, in my opinion, God did not blot out His Sabbath.

There is no passage that says God blotted out His holy day.

Also, in my opinion, you must understand Numbers Chapter 5 before you can understand Colossians 2:14.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

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this is an interesting quote from the modern catholic catechism, tractate 2174. I will paste the text and provide the link.
notice the use of the word "sun".

2174 Jesus rose from the dead “on the first day of the week. ”Because it is the “first day,” the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the “eighth day” following the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord’s Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.

Link: Catechism of The Catholic Church #2174
 
G

garee

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disciplemike said:
brother, in my opinion, God did not blot out His Sabbath.

There is no passage that says God blotted out His holy day.

Also, in my opinion, you must understand Numbers Chapter 5 before you can understand Colossians 2:14.
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No one said he blotted it out. But rather we are not to judge one another in respect to a cerimoinal laws (shadows).And that is a old testament principle as well as the new. The eternal Sabbath rest which was completed on the seventh day will not be realized in its fullness until we receive our new incorruptible bodies.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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beta said:
sorry Dan...I must be really dense ! how does that affect Christians today ? are you comparing it to 'tithing ? why don't you say what you mean.
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sure! this is what I'm leading up to

GALATIANS 5:14 All of Moses' Teachings are summarized in a single statement, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself."
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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disciplemike said:
My friend, Colossians 2 is often used for a proof text against the Sabbath. In my opinion, we were taught wrong about this passage.
What principalities and powers were spoiled?
Were these principalities and powers the ones that created the Sabbath day?
Does the verse say, "do not observe the Sabbath day"?
Or does it say, "let no man judge you ... in respect of an holyday"?

I will not let anyone judge me because I do observe the Sabbath and dietary laws.
I am not judging you either for your choice.
Just don't try to make the passage say something it does not say.
Click to expand...
Mike,
I felt like you were judging me about hang gliding on the Sabbath. Was I wrong?
 
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