Apparent Contradictions in the Bible (KJV)

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R

RB2015Bishop

Guest
#1
I often get into discussions with people that believe that the Bible contradicts itself. Examples would be: Turn the other cheek or and eye for an eye, thou shalt not kill or there is a time for everything. One such disagreement is that Jesus is in fact nothing more than the Arc Angel Micheal. A couple years ago I was in a weeks long discussion with a few Jehovah's witnesses. In the course of that conversation they showed me several Bible verses that seemed to say that Jesus and the arc angel Micheal were in fact the same person. I started praying hard, "God show me the truth of who you are, not what I want you to be but who you truly are". Over the next few days several Bible verses came to me from as many different sources. It was pretty amazing. The Bible verse that stood out the most was, Hebrews 1:5King James Version (KJV)5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?My question is this, has anyone else had similar siyuations and what was it?
 
R

RB2015Bishop

Guest
#2
Sorry about the lack of spacing on my posts, I cant make spaces stay when posting.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#3
When I was a young Christian, this used to happen to me occasionally. Like you, I prayed and God showed me why and how I was wrong. And the verses to go with it. But as I began to trust God and his Word, it mostly stopped happening.

And when I did find something I didn't understand, (for want of a better word) and God didn't answer immediately, I trusted that the Bible was true, and God would reveal it to me in some way or another.

One thing took me 25 years to understand. I was taking Old Testament survey in Seminary, and we got into Exodus. Why did God send the manna and then the quails, if they had livestock they could have eaten?

I asked my prof and he said, they did need to keep their breeding stock alive for when they arrived in Israel. And it occurs to me now, that God knew they were going to disobey his commands to enter the promised land when he first told them to go in. Imagine if they had started eating their livestock, and had no other food? The livestock would have been used up in no time and they would have been starving in no time.

Beside the fact that God performed an amazing miracle, which was never forgotten in the Bible and the history of the Israelites.
 

Pamella

Senior Member
Sep 10, 2014
118
2
18
#4
This does not pertain the your actual question, but the Johovah witnesses do not have the same bible. So I've heard theirs has been altered. One time I looked up some scriptures that they gave to my step son, and I was like 'what?' It was stand alone scriptures that had zero context to what was acually there. Somebody told me when I said that that they do not read the same bibe as we do. If you even want to call it a bible.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#5
When I was a young Christian, this used to happen to me occasionally. Like you, I prayed and God showed me why and how I was wrong. And the verses to go with it. But as I began to trust God and his Word, it mostly stopped happening.

And when I did find something I didn't understand, (for want of a better word) and God didn't answer immediately, I trusted that the Bible was true, and God would reveal it to me in some way or another.

One thing took me 25 years to understand. I was taking Old Testament survey in Seminary, and we got into Exodus. Why did God send the manna and then the quails, if they had livestock they could have eaten?

I asked my prof and he said, they did need to keep their breeding stock alive for when they arrived in Israel. And it occurs to me now, that God knew they were going to disobey his commands to enter the promised land when he first told them to go in. Imagine if they had started eating their livestock, and had no other food? The livestock would have been used up in no time and they would have been starving in no time.

Beside the fact that God performed an amazing miracle, which was never forgotten in the Bible and the history of the Israelites.
God sent them the manna and the quails because they were 'starving' ( Ex 16). They could not eat their livestock because they would be thin and bony, with little flesh to eat, and they had to preserve their limited milk supply.:)
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
113
#6
This does not pertain the your actual question, but the Johovah witnesses do not have the same bible. So I've heard theirs has been altered. One time I looked up some scriptures that they gave to my step son, and I was like 'what?' It was stand alone scriptures that had zero context to what was acually there. Somebody told me when I said that that they do not read the same bibe as we do. If you even want to call it a bible.
This is John 1:1 from their "bible"
In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*
Somewhat different from the actual Bible.... denies the deity of Christ.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#7
When I was a young Christian, this used to happen to me occasionally. Like you, I prayed and God showed me why and how I was wrong. And the verses to go with it. But as I began to trust God and his Word, it mostly stopped happening.

And when I did find something I didn't understand, (for want of a better word) and God didn't answer immediately, I trusted that the Bible was true, and God would reveal it to me in some way or another.

One thing took me 25 years to understand. I was taking Old Testament survey in Seminary, and we got into Exodus. Why did God send the manna and then the quails, if they had livestock they could have eaten?

I asked my prof and he said, they did need to keep their breeding stock alive for when they arrived in Israel. And it occurs to me now, that God knew they were going to disobey his commands to enter the promised land when he first told them to go in. Imagine if they had started eating their livestock, and had no other food? The livestock would have been used up in no time and they would have been starving in no time.

Beside the fact that God performed an amazing miracle, which was never forgotten in the Bible and the history of the Israelites.
They did eat some of the livestock. It is just that this was not the staple of their diet since the people probably outnumbered the flocks and herds thus, they were not sufficient to serve as the primary source of food. Cattle, goats, sheep, and fowl were also used for their sacrificial stores and many of these sacrifices were to be eaten either in part or in whole.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,642
3,533
113
#8
This does not pertain the your actual question, but the Johovah witnesses do not have the same bible. So I've heard theirs has been altered. One time I looked up some scriptures that they gave to my step son, and I was like 'what?' It was stand alone scriptures that had zero context to what was acually there. Somebody told me when I said that that they do not read the same bibe as we do. If you even want to call it a bible.
Most Christians don't have the same Bible. The KJV has no contradictions. It's been under fire since its' conception like no other book. It stands alone. Why? Because it's the final authority on what God has said.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#9
I often get into discussions with people that believe that the Bible contradicts itself. Examples would be: Turn the other cheek or and eye for an eye, thou shalt not kill or there is a time for everything. One such disagreement is that Jesus is in fact nothing more than the Arc Angel Micheal. A couple years ago I was in a weeks long discussion with a few Jehovah's witnesses. In the course of that conversation they showed me several Bible verses that seemed to say that Jesus and the arc angel Micheal were in fact the same person. I started praying hard, "God show me the truth of who you are, not what I want you to be but who you truly are". Over the next few days several Bible verses came to me from as many different sources. It was pretty amazing. The Bible verse that stood out the most was, Hebrews 1:5King James Version (KJV)5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?My question is this, has anyone else had similar siyuations and what was it?
Isaiah 44:6 KJVS
[6] Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Revelation 1:17-18 KJVS
[17] And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: [18] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Can't be two firsts and lasts. The 2nd is obviously Jesus and therefore God.
Cultists being guided by the enemy have a knack for zeroing in on young Christians.
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
#10
Most Christians don't have the same Bible. The KJV has no contradictions. It's been under fire since its' conception like no other book. It stands alone. Why? Because it's the final authority on what God has said.
The KJV is a fine translation but it is not the final authority.
Original manuscripts (original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts) yes.
The KJV stands alongside several other good English translations with varying strengths and weaknesses.
The reason for this is that no translation from one language to another is perfect.

That said, apparent contradictions in the Bible are just that - apparent.
One cannot interpret anything in the Bible without looking at the rest of Scripture.
One either accepts that the Word of God (original manuscripts) is inspired or one does not.

If you follow other thread on this forum it is quickly apparent how many individuals do not follow very simple rules regarding the interpretation of Scripture.
They cannot see that there might be a problem when they post a Scripture reference to make a point that is in clear contradiction to other Scripture.
They will refuse to try to re-interpret their understanding of Scripture in the knowledge that the Word of God is not contradictory.

To make another important point:
Holding to wrong doctrine per se is not a train smash.
I don't believe any one of us has "perfect" doctrine.
Refusing to review one's views on a doctrinal position in the face of clear evidence is however, a problem.
All of us do need to be teachable.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,642
3,533
113
#11
The KJV is a fine translation but it is not the final authority.
Original manuscripts (original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts) yes.
The KJV stands alongside several other good English translations with varying strengths and weaknesses.
The reason for this is that no translation from one language to another is perfect.
So what you are saying is this, we have no final authority to appeal to since the "originals" are not available. We have nothing perfects to appeal to.

Do you believe God can preserve His words in any language? Is God's word bound to a specific language? Is it possible for God to preserve His words exactly as He would have them in the English language?
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
#12
So what you are saying is this, we have no final authority to appeal to since the "originals" are not available. We have nothing perfects to appeal to.

Do you believe God can preserve His words in any language? Is it possible for God to preserve His words exactly as He would have them in the English language?
Do you believe God can preserve His words in any language?
Yes - and he did in the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts.
Is God's word bound to a specific language?
No.
Is it possible for God to preserve His words exactly as He would have them in the English language?

Perhaps, but God is not doing the English translations - human beings are.
And that is why there several translations because their goal is as good a transition as is possible.

Can you actually speak, read, write, more than one language?
Are you aware of how difficult it is to translate every nuance of meaning across languages?

You clearly have a political agenda in pushing the KJV that is not warranted by the facts.
I personally like the KJV but it is not perfect.
When clarification is required I read the Koine Greek version.
(My Aramaic and Hebrew are still rudimentary - but this a work in progress.)
You can rabbit on and on about how the original manuscripts are not available to us but there is no doubt that there are no significant errors in any manuscripts available to us currently.
By significant I mean variations that would have a definite effect of altering one's theological stance.

You are allowed to like the KJV too, but to push the KJV as the only "real" or "authorised" version when compared to other English translations is not valid.
I seem to recall others pulling you up about this issue in previous threads.
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
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#13
There are many scriptures that testify Jesus is God,and not Michael the archangel.

Psa 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.


Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Psa 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Isa 35:4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
Isa 35:5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
Isa 35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
Isa 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Act 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
 
R

RB2015Bishop

Guest
#14
In my humble opinion the KJV is the most accurate English version. Ok to be honest its not my opinion that I am going on. I have read a letter from a Jewish Christian Teacher ( Messianic Rabbi ), that said the Authorized KJV Bible was in fact the best English Bible. As I recall the changes he thought should be done are things like use of the original names from the Hebrew language. I do know that there is a KJV Bible that has made those changes. What does everyone think on that? Would it be best to use a KJV Bible with the Hebrew names?
 
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TonyJay

Guest
#15
In my humble opinion the KJV is the most accurate English version. Ok to be honest its not my opinion that I am going on. I have read a letter from a Jewish Christian Teacher ( Messianic Rabbi ), that said the Authorized KJV Bible was in fact the best English Bible. As I recall the changes he thought should be done are things like use of the original names from the Hebrew language. I do know that there is a KJV Bible that has made those changes. What does everyone think on that? Would it be best to use a KJV Bible with the Hebrew names?
There is no problem with this view.
 
R

RobbyEarl

Guest
#16
Stick to the KJ other versions omit and leave stuff out. You can only refer to the Strongs in the KJ. Yeah there are websites that interpret but it don't do justice. Anyway there are groups that want to disrupt and change what the bible says and have created translations to that affect but the KJ stands true. If you can't understand it then pray. Why can't ppl understand the KJ? Why do they need NIV are they special need ppl or just lazy and don't want to look stuff up. I don't get it. But praise God that His word is out there in some shape form or fashion.
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
#17
Stick to the KJ other versions omit and leave stuff out. You can only refer to the Strongs in the KJ. Yeah there are websites that interpret but it don't do justice. Anyway there are groups that want to disrupt and change what the bible says and have created translations to that affect but the KJ stands true. If you can't understand it then pray. Why can't ppl understand the KJ? Why do they need NIV are they special need ppl or just lazy and don't want to look stuff up. I don't get it. But praise God that His word is out there in some shape form or fashion.
Well, why don't people understand the original languages the Bible was written in?
A very few do, but in general people need a translation that they can understand.
If you have such a big issue learn the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic and then you can truly judge the merits of the various translations.

As for the conspiracy theory - the only response required for that is a big fat raspberry.
 
R

RB2015Bishop

Guest
#18
The reason I prefer the KJV was discovered by pure accident. I was a part of a small group that regularly met to just spend an hour or so a day to relax and read the Bible together. I was reading from my new NKJV that I had for a few months but never used. I was reading first that day and came to II Samuel 5:21. The KJV reads that David and his men burned the Idols of the Philistines, the NKJV and the NIV do not say that David and his men carried the idols away. So whats the big deal? The big deal is that in Deuteronomy 7:5 & 25 God commands the idols to be destroyed. Did David and his men obey God or not? Luckily, (or was it the intent of God) there is a second recording of these events in I Chronicles 14:12. By all means read the entire chapters if you wish to verify (I did). In ALL three Bible versions David and his men obeyed God in the I Chronicles telling. so the KJV tells the story the same and other versions do in fact contradict themselves. Very strange and disturbing but does this story of David effect my salvation? nope. I at this point decided to get a bit deeper. I found that Acts 8:37 has been removed from the NIV, (leaving a side note about the missing verse). Acts 8:37King James Version (KJV)37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.That was all I needed to see to know that the KJV is the correct version.
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
#19
The reason I prefer the KJV was discovered by pure accident. I was a part of a small group that regularly met to just spend an hour or so a day to relax and read the Bible together. I was reading from my new NKJV that I had for a few months but never used. I was reading first that day and came to II Samuel 5:21. The KJV reads that David and his men burned the Idols of the Philistines, the NKJV and the NIV do not say that David and his men carried the idols away. So whats the big deal? The big deal is that in Deuteronomy 7:5 & 25 God commands the idols to be destroyed. Did David and his men obey God or not? Luckily, (or was it the intent of God) there is a second recording of these events in I Chronicles 14:12. By all means read the entire chapters if you wish to verify (I did). In ALL three Bible versions David and his men obeyed God in the I Chronicles telling. so the KJV tells the story the same and other versions do in fact contradict themselves. Very strange and disturbing but does this story of David effect my salvation? nope. I at this point decided to get a bit deeper. I found that Acts 8:37 has been removed from the NIV, (leaving a side note about the missing verse). Acts 8:37King James Version (KJV)37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.That was all I needed to see to know that the KJV is the correct version.
With respect this is a non sequitur.
It does not actually prove anything.
If you want to figure out why there might be differences then go and learn about the history of the original manuscripts.
It may surprise you to learn that we currently have access to manuscripts (especially of OT books) that date back much further than those that the KJV translators used.
What this means is that if there are discrepancies between earlier manuscripts and later ones the earlier manuscripts would generally take precedence.

I do not know the reason for the differences that you highlight.
However, any claim of the superiority of the KJV based on this story just do not stack up.
 
W

WarriorForChrist

Guest
#20
Most Christians don't have the same Bible. The KJV has no contradictions. It's been under fire since its' conception like no other book. It stands alone. Why? Because it's the final authority on what God has said.
So if the KJV is the final authority why was it changed throughout the years? People in 3rd world countries don't use the KJV bible so you are saying they aren't reading from the final authority? This is complete nonsence.