giving principles in 2 cor 8 & 9 superior to tithing

[pagie]

my question is should christians tithe in the manner in wich is taught today in most churches or is it a false doctrine?
Christians are told to give freely, sacrificially, generously, regularly, joyfully and with the motivation of love for God and man. The following New Covenant free-will principles are found in Second Corinthians, chapters 8 and 9: (1) Giving is a "grace.

 

[carpetmanswife]

i personally battle the whole tithing thing,when God leads me ,i give and not always to a 'church' there r so many needs out there to b met , God loves a cheerful giver and for me to give the ten percent tithe*being unsure of it* i wouldnt b too cheerful soooo.....just being honest here .Gb

 

[pagie]

(1) Giving is a "grace.” These chapters use the Greek word for "grace" eight times in reference to helping poor saints. (2) Give yourself to God first (8:5). (3) Give yourself to knowing God’s will (8:5). (4) Give in response to Christ’s gift (8:9; 9:15). (5) Give out of a sincere desire (8:8, 10, 12; 9:7). (6) Do not give because of any commandment (8:8, 10; 9:7). (7) Give beyond your ability (8:3, 11-12). (8) Give to produce equality. This means that those who have more should give more in order to make up for the inability of those who cannot afford to give as much (8:12-14). (9) Give joyfully (8:2). (10) Give because you are growing spiritually (8:3-4, 7). (11) Give because you want to continue growing spiritually (9:8, 10-11). (12) Give because you are hearing the gospel preached (9:13).

 

[Abing]

I don't literally give my tithes to the "church".. cuz Church is not just where we go to every Sunday.
Sometimes, half of it goes to my church and half goes to the mission or somewhere else. I always ask God how to do it. It was a bit confusing though. But God will always help .. and YES He loves a cheerful giver
Cuz we had this pastor who was. um, well its not good to talk about him. .. so ill stop here

 

[pagie]

hwat im actualy trying to get at here isnt weather or not giving is ok but rather if anyone can suport 10% giving as something that God requires first before giving freely if so can they suport it with biblical evidance

 

[1still_waters]

Here's how I see it.

The OT told us to
Not commit adultery
Not Murder
To Tithe

The NT tells us
Don't even lust
Don't even have hate in your heart
Give joyously

Not committing adultery, not murdering, and tithing are all good things. Yet not lusting, not hating and giving joyously are ever better.


Should we not commit adultery? Sure! But not lusting is better.

Should we not murdery. Sure! But not hating is better.

Should we tithe? Sure! But being a generous, joyful giver is even better.

 

[pagie]

yes I agree that in the old testament the tithe was good and I believe it is good to give today but I dont think that when giving money for example 2 cor 8 & 9 the tithe 10% wasnt even in the mind of the writer
Although money existed before tithing, the source of God's "tithe" over 1500 years of the old testament tithe was never money. It was the “tithe of food.” True biblical tithes were always only food from the farms and herds of only Israelites who only lived inside God’s Holy Land, the national boundary of Israel. No tithes were accepted from defiled pagan lands. The “increase” was gathered from what God miraculously produced and not from man's craft or ability.

There are 16 verses from 11 chapters and 8 books from Leviticus 27 to Luke 11 which describe the contents of the tithe. And the contents never (again), never included money, silver, gold or anything other than food from inside Israel! Yet the incorrect definition of "tithe" is the greatest error being preached about tithing today! (See Lev. 27:30, 32; Num. 18:27-28; Deut. 12:17; 14:22-23; 26:12; 2 Chron. 31:5-6; Neh. 10:37; 13:5; Mal. 3:10-11; Matt. 23:23; Luke 11: 42).

 

[sutra]

Perhaps the verse that says we should keep in step with Spirit would be good advice to follow. If Spirit tells you to give whatever and however much to whomever He tells you to, then you are indeed keeping in step with Spirit and not putting aside this amount and for the church building etc. You are freely giving instead of saying "God I will only give you this much and to whom man has told me to give." Keeping in step with Spirit is so much more freeing and what an adventure!!

 

[pagie]

yes sutra this is the type of giving the bible clearly teaches the church, to give freely not under cumpulsion and how ever much the man descideds in his heart between him and God

see the problem I have with tithes is when a pastor- preacher uses scriptures for the tithe to reprasent giving for christians.
the reason it rubs me the wrong way is the church is never told to tithe in scripture but when scriptures refering to the tithe are used to reprasent giving in the church they compleatly go against the principles in wich the church is told to give, since Israel was cursed if the tithe wasnt followed and blessed if the tithe was followd, this goes against what christians are told to do in scripture and when christians dont understand that there is a diferance between the tithe and the offering its quite understandable why they are confused and feel guilty when tithing scriptures are used to reprasent giving for the church

there is no tithing referance in the bible quoted in the NewTestament that says the christian standard of giving begins with a tithe then anything after that is ok, the thing is those who teach tithing as a christian standard have no scripture to back up what they teach about the tithe. they use tithe schriptures that were never directed toward people with money and when they use it in this way they insist that the poor person who cant aford to give must give otherwise they will be cursed and if they give they will be blesed, they insist by using tithing scriptures that if they dont give they are robing God. infact in the old testament the tithe suported poor people who could eat of it just like the livites (since it is always only food ) this is also what the livites and the priests lived off

 

[sutra]

Yes, I totally agree but sadly tithing isn't the only thing the pastors and preachers use scripture to mislead people. It's so important to hear what Spirit is saying to the individual like Christ said "Spirit will lead YOU into all truth, and bring all things unto YOUR remembrance." peace

 

[lovespeace123]

One thing people should have wisdom about - is that ministries that are a blessing to them should receive part of their gifts of giving. Locally where I am, radio ministries are allowing advertising space on their shows to businesses and it seems creepy. If you enjoy a site, whether for research or for chat, you should look into the needs of that ministry and find ways to help. With 1000+ members, this site should not have issues paying a $500/mo. server bill, especially if we all enjoy it so much.

Sam

 

[pagie]

I agree suport is good whyle paul was among those who insisted in suporting himself 1 Thess 2:9-10,
2 Thess 3:8-10, paul dosnt condemn those who are able to recieve full time support, neither dose he teach that full time support is a mandatory will of God 1 Cor 9:12, infact he 2 times in Acts 20:29-35 and also in 2Cor 12:14 Paul acctualy encouraged church elders to work to support needy believers inside the church. whyle paul realized he had the right to some support, he concluded that the liberty to preach unhindered was more important in order to fulfill his calling from God 1 cor 9:16-19 ( in saying suport I do not mean tithes )

 

[G12_Soldier]

my question is should christians tithe in the manner in wich is taught today in most churches or is it a false doctrine?
Christians are told to give freely, sacrificially, generously, regularly, joyfully and with the motivation of love for God and man. The following New Covenant free-will principles are found in Second Corinthians, chapters 8 and 9: (1) Giving is a "grace.

Eh, that's attitude you should possess in giving, and no need to deviate from that, we good so far. ehm basic scriptures eh, proverbs 3:9-10 uh theres more, but like we don't change the responsibility...theres alot of scripture about managing your money, and not just putting your whole into the bucket...Lol but if you want stuff I get it for you...because to honor, anyone who don't teach that, definitly false doctrine Lol, we don't water down our giving

 

[sutra]

I still believe it comes down to what Christ said "I only say and do what I hear my Father saying and doing." When giving we should ask ourselves "Am I giving because I'm being told I'm suppose to or am I giving because my Father has instructed me to give?" What Spirit tells you to do or not to do trumps anything any person will tell you.

 

[pagie]

I agree with you Merryheart, I believe that churches making statements that those who give will recieve back more just because they gave mostly apeals to those who might be desperate and realy cant afford to give but are actualy the people who the church should suport, the most commen scripture I hear on tithing to the church is Mal 3:10, Malachi is an old Testament context and is never quoted anywere in the new testament to validate tithing.
in Mal 1:6, Mal 2:1 and Mal 3:1-5 Malachi is clearly addressing disshonest priests and they are cursed for stealing all the best offerings from God. in Mal 3:10-11 tithes are still only food (lev 27:30-33) if Mal 3:10 worked for new covanant christians then milions of poor tithing christians would have escaped poverty, aspescialy if the poor persons offering is considered to be more if you count what Jesus said about the poor widow who put in to the temple treasury 2 small copper coins (Mark 12:41-44) there is no evidence that poor people who tithe are ever blessed finantualy in the way Mal 3:10 points out merely because they tithe. Heb 7:18-19; Heb 8:6-8; Heb 8:13

 

[iraasuup]

I'm so glad there are people here who share my opinion. I have had a strong issue with the whole 'give 10 % to the church thing' for a long time, and thus have stopped doing so. I give to to other areas where I feel God is leading me to give, and I give joyfully. I also give because I WANT TO!! I love it, and I look for opportunities to be able to give to serve God. Isn't that giving joyfully? I have yet to find a scripture that says I MUST give to the church. There are so many outlets of opportunty, and when I expressed this opinion to my friends, they did not agree with me, and said I should be giving to the church. So it is comforting to know there are others who agree.

 

[pagie]

Hey Ira how are you? you are right I dont believe that there is a scripture that says you MUST give to the church. the examples that the church were given were not of the Law or with a commandment. I believe the christians gave freely and in love as seen in the contexts of giving for believers in the new testament. I believe that those who want to tithe 10% put themselves under the Law and those who are under the Law must obey all the Law and everything in it, tithing isnt a seperate thing from the Law from the time the Law was given, Gal 3:1-18, Gal 5:1

 

[NoahsDad]

Welp heres My take on the tithing thing.Being an Xdeacon of a church that had to close its doors because of poor financial properties
Had we had more people whom were interested in keeping the doors open (over 60 members at one point) I feel our doors would have not closed
But that still aint tithing.We as a ministery NEVER taught that you Must give 10% but whay your heart was led by the Spirit of God.
I feel you give where you are being fed.You wouldnt go to a restaurant and expect to eat for nothing ,you know the cooks ,waiters,waitress,dishwashers,etc. need to feed their families as well.So we should look to our churches as restaraunts only we get fed Spritual food.If you aint being fed where youre at then go where you can be fed and feel like you want to support that ministery.
But that STILL aint tithing.Just as it was pointed out in posts before the tithe was like a big ol party like the old time sunday meeting and dinner on the grounds.A big fellowship party.But money was involved as well ,As pointed out in this verse(Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
This is a fine example of economic stimulation Even in old times to keep a country running smoothly.The Levites being the authority of God and as well being the wefare provider supporting the poor and widowed since they had no male to provide for them.
As concerning the unclean Gentiles we see them also being provided for in the tithe laws as its written in this verse(Deu 10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. ) and this one(Deu 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.)Now where the tithe First appears in touching the early Christian church appears in Genesis(Gen 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
Gen 28:21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.) And here(Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. )
So this is My tke on the matter
Holla!!!!!!!!1

 

[sutra]

Hi Noahsdad,
Now where the tithe First appears in touching the early Christian church appears in Genesis(Gen 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
Gen 28:21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.) And here(Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.


I'm not understanding how these verses pertain to the early church?

 

[NoahsDad]

look at the verse in Gen 28:22.see the part that sais "this stone shall be Gods house"?.How is the rock of the christian church?Jesus
Now read the beginning verses befor Gen 14:20.Whom is Abraham reffering to?
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Now where the modern church brings these together is how were told the tithe goes to the church.the tenth that jacob prommised to give to the house of God and the tenth that abraham gave to melchisedec......do you see a paralell here? ever hear a preacher teach about melchesidec?Ever hear a reacher call Jesus "The rock of our salvation?
I aint sayin I'm buyin into it I'm just showin where the modern form of tithing come from