The True Identity of the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation

popeye · Jul 25, 2016

This is WHY all are harvested that are his,before and during the GT

The marriage supper.

It is the greatest event. Only the King,his army,the new Jerusalem,and David's throne re established weigh in more heavily.

Only pretrib rapture harmonizes.

No other position can even come close.

Time to get on board folks.

It is a no brainer.

Ahwatukee · Jul 25, 2016

abcdef said:

Well, I gave you the scriptures and the reasons your claims cannot be true. Therefore, you are disagreeing with scripture, not with me. Scripture plainly shows that the 144,000 will be on this earth during that last seven years, which is also when they will be sealed. It is also demonstrates that you are trusting in your own understanding by just saying "I disagree. LOL." If you are going to refute something, you should have scripture to back it up. Now I have shown you that the 144,000 are mentioned in relation to the 5th trumpet judgment and that cannot be denied:

The sealing of the 144,000:
"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.[/quote]

The sounding of the 5th trumpet:
"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the sealof God on their foreheads."

The mentioned in the verse above are those 144,000 who will have been sealed and will be exempt from the 5th trumpet judgment. Consequently, if the 144,000 were not on the earth at that time, then there would no need to mention them as being exempt, because they wouldn't be here.

garee · Jul 25, 2016

I believe It actually point to the second resurrection the end of time.

Salvation has nothing to do with the outward flesh of any nation.at any time period The 144,000 are all that God had intended to save from the beginning of time to the end, as first fruits .All believer represent the first fruits of the new creation.

It not about as if it was a Jewish religion as if it had something to do with flesh and not a new promised eternal spirit .

He made the Jews in regard to Abraham whose father was a Amorite and mother a Hittite to be used to show he is no respecter of any nation. The name Abraham which represents as a metaphor our father in heaven .Abraham means a multitude of nations. Not one a outward Jew. But one that is inward born of the new eternal spirit that he renamed, Christian.

The vision that he seen was the end of the world, the end of time, the final resurrection as His eternal bride is recognized clothed with her husband’s righteousness as the Sun and Moon under the feet of His bride. The Sun and moon are time keepers. In the new order there will be no Sun, no need for time keepers. The twelve stars to represent believers is the same as saying 1444,000 chaste virgins as the bride of Christ.

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman (the bride of Christ) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, (the end of time) and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Rev 12:1

Ahwatukee · Jul 25, 2016

garee said:

Ahwatukee said:

First of all, it's not a parable and this is a simple matter that two people who are married are not defiled. So, when you claim that the 144,000 do not defile themselves by getting married, you are incorrect. For scripture states that the marriage bed is undefiled. As so many do, you have made the error of spiritualizing this. I wish people would quite doing that to scripture and just believe what is written at face value. That is one the biggest on-going problems, that is, people symbolizing/spiritualizing what is meant to be literal. Once you do this, everything that is based on that will be in error. As I said, since it is referring literally that no lie will be in their mouths, then the reference to them not defiling themselves with woman is also speaking of literal sexual immorality.

DP · Jul 25, 2016

These "great multitude" of Rev.7:9 are not 'raptured' prior to the great tribulation, for no one is.

These are shown standing next to Christ during the future timing of the 1,000 years of Rev.20, an event that will occur after... the tribulation!

The parts in bold red are for during the 1,000 years future reign by Christ and His elect on earth:

Rev 7:13-17
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb Which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
KJV

The time when the Church will serve Christ involving a temple, is for Christ's future 1,000 years reign, which will involve the temple written of in Ezekiel 40 forward. That is when these will be before God's throne serving Him in His temple.

The time when they will no longer suffer hot or cold, nor thirst or hunger, is for after... Christ's return during His 1,000 years reign forward. Verse 17 goes with that, which is only about the 1,000 years timing when the River of the waters of life will manifest again on this earth like it did with God's Eden in Genesis 2.

So that's how we KNOW... those are not raptured prior to the great tribulation. Teaching that any of the saints stand before God's throne in Heaven, especially before or during the great trib, is a false teaching.

tanakh · Jul 25, 2016

Come on we all know they are Jehovah Witnesses !!

God4me · Jul 25, 2016

abcdef said:

The 144.000 and the great multitude in Rev 7, Aren't in the Church age, [Which ends at the pre-trib rapture.
They are those who get saved during the tribulation period.
They cannot be who you say they are, Because that would mean they'll have to come back to bodily life again.

God4me · Jul 25, 2016

tanakh said:

According to the JWs, they were the Anointed JWs.

The 144.000 are all Jewish male virgins, so that means, According to the JWs,
Peter and Philip weren't Anointed, and aren't among the 144.000, Because they were married and weren't virgins.
The gentiles in Acts 10, weren't among them, Although they were saved and Anointed with the Holy Ghost, Because they were Jews.
And Mary, [The mother of Jesus], wasn't among them, Because she was a lady.

abcdef · Jul 25, 2016

The multitude that no man could number (mtnmc#) will NEVER return to this planet because it says in Rev 7:16, "neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."

ukok102nak · Jul 25, 2016

:hrmm: the 144,000 are the people
from the old testament who are innocent people
because those people were undefiled
not only the prophets and those man of god
but also those little children who were been murdered

~;> thats why it is written literally as anyone could read here
although the understanding must be
spiritually connected to what is written
as it is written
:read:
Pahayag: 7. 3. Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5. Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

:ty:

godbless us all always

mpaper345 · Jul 25, 2016

The Bible clearly states that the 144,000 are from the twelve tribes of Israel,except for Dan who was replaced by Mannaseh,but Dan is still there,but cannot be part of the 144,000 for some reason,for God said He is bringing the whole house of Jacob,all twelve tribes back to Israel,for God is going to restore the kingdom back to them in the millennial reign of Christ.

These 144,000 are on earth,which it then says after John seen the 144,000,for the Bible says do not hurt the earth,the sea,and the trees,until they are sealed.

Jesus is the firstfruits to the kingdom of God,and then saints follow after.

The 144,000 Jews are the firstfruits to the kingdom restored to the Jews in the millennial reign of Christ,and then there are others that will be there,for all that come out of great tribulation shall be there,both Gentile,and Jew.

This is what is seems to me.

God4me · Jul 25, 2016

abcdef said:

They will return to earth sometime, Because they are saved, Rev 7: 9--14,
and all the saved will walk in the New heaven, Rev 21: 22--24, Which comes down to earth, Rev 21: 1-2.

ukok102nak · Jul 25, 2016

:rofl: for once we remember to ask those jehovahs witnesses
how come your god the father almighty is called jehovah
then after a few years we ask again who is there god
then they reply
it is jesus that is called jehovah

Ahwatukee · Jul 25, 2016

abcdef said:

Hello again,

The reason that the scripture mentions this multitude not being scorched by the sun, is because it is in reference to the fact that they will be on the earth at the time that the 4th bowl judgment is poured out:

"The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him."

Those in the verse who are cursing God will be the unrighteous. But, the great tribulation saints will also be on the earth during that time and will experience the scorching heat of the sun as a result of the 4th bowl, which is what the verse is referring to. This is a good example of how scripture supports scripture.

ukok102nak · Jul 25, 2016

hope they wont take us for that misguided teachings
for we are not against unto anyone thats why we always
tell them to change their doctrines
so that they will be enlighten
by the way
the word jehovah is something like a mans translation from
the word YHWH
then they add a vowels unto it
thou theres no vowel in hebrew languages
but what we only remember that during the time of syrian empire
some hebrew aramaic people uses somekind of letter that
represent the letter v
but still NO ONE MUST TRANSLATE ANY WORDS
BY CHANGING THE ORIGINAL WORD
FOR THAT IS ONE OF THOSE MANY WAYS
TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH

DP · Jul 25, 2016

God4me said:

Not written, that's a theory of men.

ukok102nak · Jul 25, 2016

ukok102nak said:

hope they wont take us for that misguided teachings
for we are not against unto anyone thats why we always
tell them to change their doctrines
so that they will be enlighten
by the way
the word jehovah is something like a mans translation from
the word YHWH
then they add a vowels unto it
thou theres no vowel in hebrew languages
but what we only remember that during the time of syrian empire
some hebrew aramaic people uses somekind of letter that
represent the letter v
but still NO ONE MUST TRANSLATE ANY WORDS
BY CHANGING THE ORIGINAL WORD
FOR THAT IS ONE OF THOSE MANY WAYS
TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH

:rofl: hey

thats what ive said before
your much a learner than i am

posthuman · Jul 25, 2016

God4me said:

as i told you earlier, this is just not a convincing argument. it seems clear to me that there is obvious symbolic language being used here.

i could just as easily point out to you that "every nation, all tribes and peoples and language" certainly includes ethnic Jews, but aren't you assuming that it is only gentiles? well then that wouldn't be "every" people, would it ..

do you think 12 is used symbolically in this book?
do you think 1,000 is used symbolically in this book?

do you think the very peculiar list of tribes given here is meaningful at all?
do you think the events in chapter 7 are chronologically directly after those in chapter 6?

i could also just as easily point out that the earth and the sea and the trees are certainly 'harmed' by what follows from the opening of the first six seals, though what John heard in chapter 7 is the angels being told not to let such harm fall before "the servants of our God" are all sealed.

((by the way, quite simply, according to the scripture, chapter 7 verse 3: this is who the 144,000 are - "the servants of our God"))

posthuman · Jul 25, 2016

at the close of chapter 6, a question is asked.

“Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

i believe chapter 7 is not chronologically following chapter 6, but that it is answering this question.

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice,

“Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

that "the servants of our God" are sealed before the angels with charge over the winds are allowed to harm the earth, sea or trees also substantiates this.
so when did this sealing happen?

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

hmm..
does that not make sense?

posthuman · Jul 25, 2016

this understanding ((that the judgement should not begin until all the servants of God are sealed)) also explains what we are waiting for.

what i mean is, we are waiting for the Lord's return. we are waiting for Him to rise up & judge the world, and reconcile all things to Himself. no one knows about this time except the Father. so what is holding it back -- what is the Father's patience waiting for?

Peter says that He is being patient with us, waiting for us to come to repentance.

here is what i think is the 'trigger' -- that we are all waiting for until this time should come: we are waiting for the servants of God to be sealed.
when the fullness of the people whom He foreknew & predestined to be His children, to be the inheritance gift to the Son, have believed and been sealed, then there is nothing left to wait for, but judgement will come.

this verse here, that tells us the winds of the judgement of the earth are being held back until all the fullness of the servants of God are sealed, is telling us what holds back that final day.

((that's what post believes))

The True Identity of the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation

popeye

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member