House of Judah and/or House of Israel?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#41
Ezra 1:3-5
3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.

4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

5
Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites, with all them whose spirit God had raised, to go up to build the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem.
KJV

None... of the ten tribes are mentioned, ONLY the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, the Levites, and the priests (of which some were foreigners that crept into the priesthood). And Ezra 2 gives the names of these, included a group of Nethinims (leftover bondservants of the Canaanites which Joshua and Solomon made hewers of wood and for service of the temple).

All these were called children of Israel because they were, but that phrase does not prove all 12 tribes returned. Furthermore, the ten tribes had ALREADY... been removed and scattered by the kings of Assyrian about 120 years BEFORE the king of Babylon came upon the "house of Judah" at Jerusalem and took these above captive to Babylon for 70 years!
Ezra 6 - [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the children of Israel, the priests and the Levites and the rest of the descendants of the captivity, celebrated the dedication of this house of God with joy. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And they offered sacrifices at the dedication of this house of God, one hundred bulls, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel twelve male goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They assigned the priests to their divisions and the Levites to their divisions, over the service of God in Jerusalem, as it is written in the Book of Moses.

Next.. You can not cherry pick verses.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
Sorry, you are simply reading into that what you want.

Like DiscipleMike has already shown, Jesus said He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. His own did not receive Him, which were the Jews of the house of Judah at Jerusalem. And it's still to this day... that the majority of Jews hold to the old covenant still for their salvation, refusing Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ - Messiah.
Nope. I am just taking Paul at his word, and interpreting what he said and not trying to distort or twist it. like you are doing

Of course he was sent to the lost house of Isreal Isreal was lost, in sin, and not following God, they crucified him.. All twelve tribes, not just 2..(or three if you include levi)
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#43
I posted this a couple of years ago here at CC. I've edited to add a bit in relevance to the OP of this thread:


Originally Posted by JGIG

British Israelism, Anglo Israelism . . . pretty much the same stuff. Some of the more radical elements in our society have latched onto a version of it that morphed into the Christian Identity Movement.

The Hebrew Roots Movement is preaching the same stuff with an Hebraic twist (The Ten Lost Tribes).

Jim Staley (now in federal prison for financial fraud) teaches his version in 'Identity Crisis', a rather widely shared video and one that is a gateway for some folks into the Hebrew Roots Movement.



The fact is that there are no 'Lost Tribes' of Israel. It's a made up doctrine based on MUCH twisting of Scripture resulting in at best an elitist and at worst a racist theology.

I've written a thorough article on the Hebrew Roots side of the Lost Tribes doctrine here:​

It's a long read, but deals exhaustively with the ins and outs of the 'Lost Tribes' arguments and mentality.

An excerpt, which addresses the OP's​

'It has been said, that if you don't understand the difference between

the House of Israel
and
the House of Judah,

you will misinterpret over half of the Scriptures.

The Totten Reference
:


Staley also makes mention of “Prof. C.A.L. Totten (1851-1908) of Yale University” citing the quote as “One of the most amazing quotes that you have ever seen and that I have ever seen” (again with the hyperbole). Totten was a proponent of British Israelism, which over time has morphed into beliefs ranging from the Two House/Ephraimite theology (basically British Israelism with a Hebrew Roots twist and is what Staley is teaching here), to the distinctly more racist Christian Identity Movement.

Both ends of the spectrum like to quote Totten:


“His name still surfaces from time to time in Christian Identity literature . . . usually as ‘Prof. Totten of Yale’. While Identity writers disdain intellectuals and academics [note that Staley does this, as well], they seem pathetically grateful for any instance in which the halo of academic prestige shines on their ideas. In Totten’s case, however, the tie to Yale was tenuous indeed.

“In 1868, the Sheffield Scientific School at Yale was designated Connecticut’s land-grant college. While that carried financial benefits for the institution, it also obligated Sheffield to provide military instruction for its students. Yale was able to secure a waiver of the drill requirements and was obliged only to provide senior students with a mandatory course of lectures in ’military science’. These proved unproductive, and in 1877, Sheffield adopted a slightly different plan in cooperation with the United States Engineering School, whose officers were to provide six lectures each year on strategy, ordnance, fortification, and similar topics. One of the early officers detailed to this position of professor of military science and tactics was a lieutenant in the artillery named Charles Totten, who held the post from 1889 until 1892.

“Totten’s course appears to have been more successful than earlier military training programs at Yale, but his affiliation with the university was not substantially different from that of Reserve Officer’s Training Corps later on.”

So in reality, Totten was not at Yale as a theologian, but a giver of 24 lectures over 4 years at Yale regarding military science.

Totten has no designation after his name indicating that he was ever a true professor at all, let alone a designation that gives him credibility as a theologian.

Billing him as a ‘Yale Professor’ gives Totten and his views acedemic weight and authority that he does not in reality have. Not to diminish the man and his accomplishments, but C.A.L. Totten was neither a theologian nor a professor.

Yet the theological quote from Totten, whose modern-day designation would have been the equivalent of a Yale R.O.T.C. instructor, isOne of the most amazing quotes that you have ever seen and that I have ever seen” according to Staley.

Here is the Totten quote as seen in the ‘Identity Crisis’ video:


“I can never be too thankful to the Almighty that in my youth he used the late Professor Wilson to show me the difference between the two houses. The very understanding of this difference is the KEY by which almost the entire Bible becomes intelligible, and I cannot state too strongly that the man who has not yet seen that (the house of) Israel of the Scripture is totally distinct from the Jewish people, is yet in the very infancy, the mere alphabet of Biblical study, and that to this day the meaning of seven-eighths of the Bible is shut to his understanding.”—Professor C.A.L. Totten (1851-1908) of Yale University


And I hate to beat a dead horse, but John Wilson was not a professor either.

So we have Jim Staley quoting a ‘professor’ (Totten) who was not a professor who referred to another professor (Wilson) who was also not a professor. Jim Staley is just preaching an updated version of British Israelism with a full Hebraic twist and a recalibrated definition of Gentile, referring to professors who really aren’t professors to give his claims credibility.​


Or you can just go with

14 I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15 That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.

16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” (from Rom. 1)



-JGIG
 
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jcha

Guest
#44
Leviticus 26

Punishments for Disobedience
(Leviticus 20:1-9; Deuteronomy 28:15-68; 1 Samuel 15:1-9; 1 Kings 13:11-34)14But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; 15And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: 16I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Ezekiel 4:
4Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity. 5For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

House of Israel was taken into captivity by Assyria 722/721 BC.

390 years times seven = 2730 years. The curse was complete in 2008/2009.

I was raised Southern Baptist. But Something happened to me when in 2008 I heard a Christian radio program talking about the seventh day Sabbath was never done away. My heart was pricked and I knew in my spirit it was true. I began to study and learned about God's calendar, and in early 2012 I began keeping the seventh day rest from work, buying or selling. Most Christians that have gone to this understanding also heard it in 2008/2009.

The whole Bible becomes applicable and many parables now are explainable.

I'm not saying that I am a lost sheep of the House of Israel. Jesus died and resurrected for the whole world. We can all become Israel of God. But, I fear many will choose to keep man-made doctrines and traditions. See NT for what Jesus said about that.
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#45
Leviticus 26

Punishments for Disobedience
(Leviticus 20:1-9; Deuteronomy 28:15-68; 1 Samuel 15:1-9; 1 Kings 13:11-34)14But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; 15And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: 16I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Ezekiel 4:
4Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity. 5For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

House of Israel was taken into captivity by Assyria 722/721 BC.

390 years times seven = 2730 years. The curse was complete in 2008/2009.

I was raised Southern Baptist. But Something happened to me when in 2008 I heard a Christian radio program talking about the seventh day Sabbath was never done away. My heart was pricked and I knew in my spirit it was true. I began to study and learned about God's calendar, and in early 2012 I began keeping the seventh day rest from work, buying or selling. Most Christians that have gone to this understanding also heard it in 2008/2009.

The whole Bible becomes applicable and many parables now are explainable.

I'm not saying that I am a lost sheep of the House of Israel. Jesus died and resurrected for the whole world. We can all become Israel of God. But, I fear many will choose to keep man-made doctrines and traditions. See NT for what Jesus said about that.
thank you for that. I seemed to have heard a call in about 2009, calling me away from the SBC.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#46
390 years times seven = 2730 years. The curse was complete in 2008/2009.
What is a “Time”? The Seven Prophetic Times

Now continue in Leviticus 26: “And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me,
then I will punish you seven times more for your sins” (verse 18).

It is important to understand this!
This expression “seven times” is translated into the English from a Hebrew word
which conveys a dual meaning. The original Hebrew word Moses wrote is shibah.

It is defined as “seven times,” and also as “sevenfold.” The “seven times” implies
duration or continuation of punishment. But the word also conveys the meaning
of “sevenfold,” or seven times greater intensity of punishment—as a punishment
that is sevenfold more intense.

In this sense, the meaning would be the same as in Daniel 3:19, where King
Nebuchadnezzar, in a rage, commanded that the furnace into which Daniel’s
three friends were to be thrown should be made seven times hotter.

Now understanding the “seven times”—or seven prophetic “times.”

In prophecy, a “time” is a prophetic 360-day year. And, during Israel’s punishment,
each day represented a year being fulfilled.

This “day-for-a-year principle” is explained in two other passages dealing with
the duration of Israel’s punishment.

God punished that generation of Israelites Moses had led out of Egypt
[by withholding] from them entry into the Promised Land forty years.

That Promised Land was a beginning part of the birthright.
God punished them on the principle of a year for every day
—40 years’ duration of punishment for the 40 days of transgression.


Ezekiel’s “Day for a Year”

In order to impress on the Prophet Ezekiel the seriousness of Israel’s years of rebellion
against God’s rule and God’s laws which would cause great blessings, God imposed this
very principle on him—but it was enacted in reverse.

The sins of the house of Israel had continued from their rejection of God as King
for 390 years. Naturally God could not expect this prophet, in a human lifetime,
to undergo the bearing of these years of sin on the basis of each day of sinning being
borne by him for a year. That would have required 2,000 lifetimes.

So God reversed the actual application of the principle. Ezekiel was required to bear
Israel’s sins a day for each year they had sinned. But it still was the “day-for-a-year principle”!

Ezekiel was told to lie on his left side, in an imaginary siege against Jerusalem,
pictured on a tile before him. “Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity
of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie
upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.

For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number
of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of
the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side,
and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days:

I have appointed thee each day for a year” (Ezekiel 4:4-6).mentioned further in verse 9.

But in the other application of the “day-for-a-year principle,” previously explained,
where it applied also to a duration of punishment put on the people, the punishment
was to be borne by them on the basis of a year of punishment for each day.

Also in this case, the punishment was the number of years during which a promised
blessing was withheld. Now when we come to the expression

“then I will punish you seven times more for your sins” in Leviticus 26, it is evident
both by its manner of wording in the sentence and by the fact of actual fulfillment
that it was speaking of a duration of seven prophetic “times,” or years.

And on this “year-for-a-day principle,” it becomes seven 360-day years—

a total of 2,520 days. And when each day is a year of punishment—in this case,
as in Numbers 14:34, a withholding of a promised blessing—the punishment
becomes the withdrawing of and withholding the promised blessings for 2,520 years!
-
What is a “Time”? For it is basic to several key prophecies. a prophetic “time”
is a 360-day year? Why not a year of 3651/4 days? Why not a solar year?

In ancient biblical times, a year was figured on a basis of twelve 30-day months.
Previous to the time, in Moses’s day, when God gave His people the sacred calendar,
the 30-day month was used.

Notice Genesis 7:11: “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month,
the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep
broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.” Now verse 24: “And the waters
prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.”

Next, Genesis 8:3-4: “And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and
after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. And the ark rested
in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.”

So notice—the flood started on the 17th day of the second month. At the end of 150 days,
the ark rested on Mount Ararat, on the 17th day of the 7th month. That was five months
to the day. Five 30-day months are precisely 150 days. So months, then, were 30-day months!

We find it definitely figured this way in both Daniel and Revelation. In Revelation 12:6,
a prophecy of an event which in actual history did last 1,260 solar years is spoken of as

“a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” So here, again, a prophetic day was a
year in fulfillment. In Revelation 13:5 (referring to a different event but the same amount
of time) this same period of 1,260 days being fulfilled in 1,260 solar years is spoken of as
“forty and two months.” Now 42 calendar months, according to the calendar now in use,
would not be 1,260 days, but 1,276 days—and, if a leap year occurred, 1,277. Or, if the
extra half-year happened to be the last half of the year, it would be 1,280 or 1,281 days.

But the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 is the same amount of time as the 1,260 days
of Revelation 12:6. So the 42 months were 30-day months.

The same amount of days is spoken of in still different language in Revelation 12:14
as “a time, and times, and half a time.” The “time” is one prophetic year; the “times”
is two more prophetic years; and the whole expression is 31/2 prophetic “times,”
which is a literal 1,260 days—or 31/2 years of 30-day months. Seven of these “times”
then would be 2,520 days—and on a day-for-a-year basis, 2,520 years!

Then in Daniel 12:7 the same expression “time, times, and an half [time]” is mentioned.

A prophetic “time,” then, is a 360-day year—or a plain 360 days. And during those years
of Israel’s punishment, as made plain by combining Leviticus 26:18 with Ezekiel 4:4-6,
Numbers 14:34, and Revelation 13:5 and 12:6, each day of a prophetic “time” was
one year in fulfillment. In Leviticus 26:18, and in Revelation 12:6 and 13:5, this meaning
is verified and proved by the fact that the prophecy was fulfilled in precisely the time indicated.

Birthright Withheld 2,520 Years
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#47
Ezra 6 - [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the children of Israel, the priests and the Levites and the rest of the descendants of the captivity, celebrated the dedication of this house of God with joy. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And they offered sacrifices at the dedication of this house of God, one hundred bulls, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel twelve male goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They assigned the priests to their divisions and the Levites to their divisions, over the service of God in Jerusalem, as it is written in the Book of Moses.

Next.. You can not cherry pick verses.

I don't have to cherry pick, especially among a liar who seeks to hide God's Truth.


1 Kings 12:19-21
19 So Israel rebelled against the house of David unto this day.

20 And it came to pass, when all Israel heard that Jeroboam was come again, that they sent and called him unto the congregation, and made him king over all Israel:
there was none that followed the house of David, but the tribe of Judah only.

21
And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.
KJV

1 Kings 12:17
17 But as for the children of Israel which dwelt in the cities of Judah, Rehoboam reigned over them.
KJV

2 Chron 11:13-17
13 And the priests and the Levites that were in all Israel resorted to him out of all their coasts.

14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the LORD:

15 And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.

16
And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

17
So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon.
KJV
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#48
I posted this a couple of years ago here at CC. I've edited to add a bit in relevance to the OP of this thread:


Originally Posted by JGIG

British Israelism, Anglo Israelism . . . pretty much the same stuff. Some of the more radical elements in our society have latched onto a version of it that morphed into the Christian Identity Movement.

The Hebrew Roots Movement is preaching the same stuff with an Hebraic twist (The Ten Lost Tribes).

Jim Staley (now in federal prison for financial fraud) teaches his version in 'Identity Crisis', a rather widely shared video and one that is a gateway for some folks into the Hebrew Roots Movement.



The fact is that there are no 'Lost Tribes' of Israel. It's a made up doctrine based on MUCH twisting of Scripture resulting in at best an elitist and at worst a racist theology.

I've written a thorough article on the Hebrew Roots side of the Lost Tribes doctrine here:​

It's a long read, but deals exhaustively with the ins and outs of the 'Lost Tribes' arguments and mentality.

An excerpt, which addresses the OP's

....



Biggest bunch of PROPAGANDA BS I've ever heard!

All one need do is simply READ God's Word beginning at 1 Kings 11 forward to know that He split Israel into two separate kingdoms in the days of Solomon, because of how Solomon SINNED against Him. Per God's Word, the southern kingdom at Jerusalem was called "kingdom of Judah", and the ten tribe northern kingdom at Samaria was called the "kingdom of Israel", just like the OP has shown. They had war against each other until...

God brought the kings of Assyria upon the northern kingdom of Israel and removed... them all to Assyria and the lands of the Medes, leaving the "kingdom of Judah" in the land only. So the "kingdom of Israel" or ten tribes or "house of Israel" as they were also called in God's Word, went into captivity for false worship first.

Then about 100 years later, the "kingdom of Judah" fell away from God also, in the days of Jeremiah, and God brought the king of Babylon upon them and took them captive to Babylon for 70 years. This was a completely different time and captivity than the ten tribe "kingdom of Israel" which had already been removed around 100 years earlier.

In the days of the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.), the whereabouts of the ten tribes beyond Euphrates was still known. But eventually their whereabouts became unknown as they assimilated among the Gentiles, loosing their heritage as part of Israel, as it still is to this day.

But like Apostle Paul said about the Jews (unbelievers), there are many "unruly and vain talkers and deceivers", and that's who is mostly against this Bible topic about the ten lost tribes of Israel.

Titus 1:10-11
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
KJV




 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#49
Has anyone met a person who calls themselves an 'Israelite' Even Israelis don't call themselves Israelite's. They all call themselves Jews. If they call themselves Jews why the big issue about tribe identity?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#50
Nope. I am just taking Paul at his word, and interpreting what he said and not trying to distort or twist it. like you are doing

Of course he was sent to the lost house of Isreal Isreal was lost, in sin, and not following God, they crucified him.. All twelve tribes, not just 2..(or three if you include levi)
I don't twist God's Holy Writ. I reveal it 'as written'. But you have no problem telling lies USING God's Word to suit your political agenda fancy like a worker of iniquity.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#51
I don't twist God's Holy Writ. I reveal it 'as written'. But you have no problem telling lies USING God's Word to suit your political agenda fancy like a worker of iniquity.

Um excuse me, But you have not read romans 11 as written, You can;t In order to believe your fview, you have to make it say something else.

Take Paul at his word. Stop twisting his words to suit your own fancy.


PS. I have no political agenda. That is nonsense..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#52
Has anyone met a person who calls themselves an 'Israelite' Even Israelis don't call themselves Israelite's. They all call themselves Jews. If they call themselves Jews why the big issue about tribe identity?
They have been called jews since they returned from Babylon (people from all 12 tribes) because they lived in Judah.. They kept their names to follow tradition.. because they were called jews when the final disciplinary act of lev 26 was fulfilled in 70 AD..

Why it matters.. I am not sure either..
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#53
Has anyone met a person who calls themselves an 'Israelite' Even Israelis don't call themselves Israelite's. They all call themselves Jews. If they call themselves Jews why the big issue about tribe identity?
The difference is because the name 'Jew' originates from the tribe of Judah, and that's the name all those of the southern kingdom of Judah took, which made a distinction between them and the ten tribe northern kingdom. The "kingdom of Judah" was made up of the tribe of Judah, the tribe of Benjamin, and some small remnants out of the ten tribes that chose to stay in Judeah or leave the north and join with Judah, and also foreigners of Canaan that Joshua made a pact with that became bondservants to Israel, and then strangers that David and Solomon traded with the king of Tyre to build the city of David, and the first temple.

Want to really know what the battle is between those who hate this topic vs. God's people which He has revealed this matter to?

One of the main problems with the tribe of Judah's history has been the crept in unawares, like the scribes which were Kenites from the land of Canaan, and those of Edom which became Jews also once God caused their lands to be destroyed. Then there's the Khazars who took the religion of Judaism long ago. So there's certain factions among Judah that are not true Israelites, but strangers from leftover Canaanites, Idumeans, etc. Their true identity having been lost they would argue about not being true bloodline Judah today.

For the ten tribes, it's been just as bad, or worse. They were scattered among the Gentiles, continued in false Baal worship, lost who they were and literally became as Gentiles living among Gentiles.

So today among the Jews, there are some Jewish scholars which heed God's Word and believe God when He said He would gather the split house of Judah and the house of Israel back together again at the last day (see Ezek.37). Then there are some Jews who go against God's Holy Writ in refusing to believe the ten tribes were ever split from Judah. These tend to think that only a Jew (which is of the house of Judah, the southern "kingdom of Judah" only) is an Israelite of bloodline Israel, which of course is false per God's Word and per history.

Apostle Paul used the term 'Jew' for himself and his brethren because that's who all that returned to Jerusalem from the Babylon captivity, i.e., the Jews of the "kingdom of Judah". Paul was born of the tribe of Benjamin, and that tribe was the only other full tribe to join with the tribe of Judah to make up the "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem. That's who the Jews are today, those of the southern kingdom only. Even those born out of the other tribes that came south when Jeroboam setup calf idols took the name Jew having become part of the southern kingdom of Judah. Strangers living in the "kingdom of Judah" in the southern lands also took the name Jew (this per the Jewish historian Josephus).
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#54

Um excuse me, But you have not read romans 11 as written, You can;t In order to believe your fview, you have to make it say something else.

Take Paul at his word. Stop twisting his words to suit your own fancy.


PS. I have no political agenda. That is nonsense..
Your denial of God's Holy Writ on this matter of the ten northern tribes of Israel which God separated from Solomon's son Rehoboam at Jerusalem is such a disgrace to anyone claiming to be of true Jewish descent or a Christian believer, that it is inexcusable.

1 Kings 11:28-39
28 And the man Jeroboam was a mighty man of valour: and Solomon seeing the young man that he was industrious, he made him ruler over all the charge of the house of Joseph.
29 And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field:
30 And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
32(But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)
33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.
34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:
35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.
36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.
37 And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel.
38 And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.
39 And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever.
KJV
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#55
Your denial of God's Holy Writ on this matter of the ten northern tribes of Israel which God separated from Solomon's son Rehoboam at Jerusalem is such a disgrace to anyone claiming to be of true Jewish descent or a Christian believer, that it is inexcusable.

1 Kings 11:28-39
28 And the man Jeroboam was a mighty man of valour: and Solomon seeing the young man that he was industrious, he made him ruler over all the charge of the house of Joseph.
29 And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field:
30 And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
32(But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)
33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.
34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:
35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.
36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.
37 And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel.
38 And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.
39 And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever.
KJV

why are you in kings? You think I deny this? I agree, But this does not prove your point.

I already proved that when Judah returned from babylonian captivity and rebuilt the temple. Representatives from all 12 tribes were present.. If all ten tribes are here, Long after the northern kingdom was scattered. then there are no lost tribes, All 12 tribes are present, they are just now called Jews (because they live in Judah)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
by the way, You still twist romans 11. If you took Paul at his world. and literally translated it, You can not believe as you do, It would be impossible.

Paul said ALL ISREAL WILL BE SAVED, He means all, which includes 12 tribes. Also in revelations, where 144000 from each tribe are saved and sent out as missionaries in the future..
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#57

why are you in kings? You think I deny this? I agree, But this does not prove your point.

I already proved that when Judah returned from babylonian captivity and rebuilt the temple. Representatives from all 12 tribes were present.. If all ten tribes are here, Long after the northern kingdom was scattered. then there are no lost tribes, All 12 tribes are present, they are just now called Jews (because they live in Judah)
And that's exactly where your LIE against the Scriptures is, wrongly thinking that just because some small remnants of the northern ten tribes sided with Judah at Jerusalem, and went down and joined with them, then that means some stupid idea that none of the ten tribes are lost! when in reality, only a SMALL REMNANT went south, and NOT THE MAJORITY OF THE TEN TRIBES WHICH STAYED IN THE NORTHERN KINGDOM UNDER JEROBOAM!

And then... to pile on top of denial and stupidity, there's your flaming ignorance of both houses or kingdoms having WAR against each other after that!

That's not even to mention all the Scripture evidence in God's Word where He said He would gather the ten tribes back. Ezekiel 37 is an OBVIOUS example of that prophecy for the future!

So every time you say you already know... this, it makes you an even greater liar against God's Word!
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#58
by the way, You still twist romans 11. If you took Paul at his world. and literally translated it, You can not believe as you do, It would be impossible.

Paul said ALL ISREAL WILL BE SAVED, He means all, which includes 12 tribes. Also in revelations, where 144000 from each tribe are saved and sent out as missionaries in the future..
Hello, is there anyone in there?

I HAVE NOT EVEN MENTIONED ROMANS 11 IN THIS TOPIC HERE!

YOU ARE MAKING UP LIES!!!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
And that's exactly where your LIE against the Scriptures is, wrongly thinking that just because some small remnants of the northern ten tribes sided with Judah at Jerusalem, and went down and joined with them, then that means some stupid idea that none of the ten tribes are lost! when in reality, only a SMALL REMNANT went south, and NOT THE MAJORITY OF THE TEN TRIBES WHICH STAYED IN THE NORTHERN KINGDOM UNDER JEROBOAM!

And then... to pile on top of denial and stupidity, there's your flaming ignorance of both houses or kingdoms having WAR against each other after that!

That's not even to mention all the Scripture evidence in God's Word where He said He would gather the ten tribes back. Ezekiel 37 is an OBVIOUS example of that prophecy for the future!

So every time you say you already know... this, it makes you an even greater liar against God's Word!

Thats why people need to stop responding to your nonsense and let you go your way. When it comes to end times, you are very opinionated, and to be honest quite rude.

All it take is a few families from a bloodline to keep it in tact.. The more they procreate, the more members they have.

Jesus destroyed the northern kingdom. It does not mean EVERYONE who lived up north rebelled. Jesus could have moved some people south. To keep his promise made to Abraham Issac, Jacob and their sons


Either way, Your wrong, And all your doin gis trying to prove to yourself you are right. Well this person is not buying into it, he wil interpret scripture how it is written Not how some man said he thinks it should be written or interpreted.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#60
Hello, is there anyone in there?

I HAVE NOT EVEN MENTIONED ROMANS 11 IN THIS TOPIC HERE!

YOU ARE MAKING UP LIES!!!
Just to prove yet once again,

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull


Nope. I am just taking Paul at his word, and interpreting what he said and not trying to distort or twist it. like you are doing

Of course he was sent to the lost house of Isreal Isreal was lost, in sin, and not following God, they crucified him.. All twelve tribes, not just 2..(or three if you include levi)
My first sentence was in reference to romans 11. and pauls words there. So when you replied with this response.

I don't twist God's Holy Writ. I reveal it 'as written'. But you have no problem telling lies USING God's Word to suit your political agenda fancy like a worker of iniquity.
(see post 50)

You brought romans 11 into the discussion.. WHich proves (considering the attack you just made against me)

1. You did not even know what you were responding to. which means you should never have responded
2. You knew what you were responding to. but decided you had a means to attack me, (since romans 11 was not specifically stated in my post)

Either way, You should apologize.