Romans 8:1-2, is conditional

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Feb 24, 2015
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Some people are saying others are wanting to cause strife and contention in the church,
it is them over there.

The above is an attempt to say the church has sheep and goats and it is up to us
to discern the two.

Jesus simply says "Listen to my voice" "Hear my words" "Do what I ask"

So who are you listening to, long involved theories put out by grace777 or Jesus?

I know who is my Lord, and I pray if you know the Lord you will also.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
John 10:16

You can tell who are following Christ who honour and listen to His words.
But then you know this because you are His sheep, Amen, and Praise the Lord.

None can deceive His chosen, for we are called from eternity to eternity.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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God expects good works, a pure heart and blameless life and most of all love.

If you listen and watch some think God expects a healthy life, a wealthy life,
lots of miracles and works of wonder which are spiritual fruit.

Have you noticed the second version has no heart or love or works in the
real world. Anyone can fake the second because apart from claimed miracles
the world provides the rest.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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Most mature Christians understand what Romans8:1-2 means. A lot of Christians feel guilty because of unconfessed sin. They don't repent and Satan lies to them. 1Cor2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Let's go back to Romans. Walking in the flesh means walking in the natural or acting like the world. Some Christians I've met are very Carnal(acting like the world). Born Again Christians are supposed to walk in the Spirit. You can't defeat the devil in the flesh. Acts1:8 But ye shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes
Upon you. How do we defeat the Devil?
1.The name of Jesus
2. Walking in the power& Anointing of the Holy Ghost
3. The Word of God
To God be the Glory Preacha24-7
Um, Jesus already defeated the Devil.

We just need to rest in Christ's Work.

15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. (from Col. 2)

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. (from 1 Jn. 4)

-JGIG
 
Feb 24, 2015
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. . . how nearly all PeterJens' posts must begin in his head . . . :p


-JGIG
Well praise the Lord, that my posts are expressions of who I am in the Lord.
It would be strange if not impossible for posts not to begin in peoples heads.

One could imagine they are actually the Holy Spirit, inspiring the writer and then
on to the reader.

I suppose the mystics believe all they do is actually God expressing His thoughts
and ideas through them so these things originate in God.

So this is a strange criticism, but it suggests the belief that peoples spiritual
authority and words are actually Gods. It is why some believe they are actually
equal to scripture in authority and insight.

Now I am humble enough to recognise I am just a follower giving my testimony
in Christ, and bringing Gods word to others. Now Gods word is not mine and my
expressions are testimony to His work in my life. Now if I was taking on the
ministry of a prophet, then it would be Gods word being spoken.

So Hallelujah, the Lord is at work in me, and I pray also in you.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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What is the biggest criticism you could make of a preacher?

It is your ideas and not Gods.
But how do you know the preacher is not reflecting Gods heart and mind?

By reading the word of God, the bible, and getting a grasp of what they are
sharing. This is why Jesus spoke in parables, so you work through the ideas
they become part of you, and are powerful.

We are the branches of the vine. Our life is in Christ, and what we share in the
Kingdom is inspired, deluged in His Spirit and His love. Jesus is saying we have this
intimacy, once you grasp what the cross means and is, your heart is set.

It is not more complex than this. But for some you need the right theology, the right
preacher, the right lenses. No. You just need the love of God working out through you
and this begins by letting His word dwell in you as a living thing, and you obey its
promptings. But this seems too difficult for many. I do not know why other than it is
a testimony to the stubborness of the human heart.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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What is the biggest criticism you could make of a preacher?

It is your ideas and not Gods.
But how do you know the preacher is not reflecting Gods heart and mind?

By reading the word of God, the bible, and getting a grasp of what they are
sharing. This is why Jesus spoke in parables, so you work through the ideas
they become part of you, and are powerful.

We are the branches of the vine. Our life is in Christ, and what we share in the
Kingdom is inspired, deluged in His Spirit and His love. Jesus is saying we have this
intimacy, once you grasp what the cross means and is, your heart is set.

It is not more complex than this. But for some you need the right theology, the right
preacher, the right lenses. No. You just need the love of God working out through you
and this begins by letting His word dwell in you as a living thing, and you obey its
promptings. But this seems too difficult for many. I do not know why other than it is
a testimony to the stubborness of the human heart.
The question is, is Romans 8:1-2 conditional? Will Christians come into judgement on the last day ? Or would that be double jeopardy and would apply to one of the groups in Hebrews 6 as those who crucify the Lord of glory over and over to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough?
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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The question is, is Romans 8:1-2 conditional? Will Christians come into judgement on the last day ? Or would that be double jeopardy and would apply to one of the groups in Hebrews 6 as those who crucify the Lord of glory over and over to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough?
I think the issue is actually simple. The principles Jesus laid out in the sermon on the mount
are about the heart, being true, having love and forgiveness, not playing to the crowd but
loving righteousness and others as our life blood.

Now the term belief is the same as being chosen. But to believe in someone is to actually
know them and how they will react. Jesus says time and again, if you are my friends you
will obey my commands. If you obey my commands I will come and show myself to you.

The dilemma is doing requires a change within, being born of God, catching what love means.
This is the hardest issue of all, and some never get it. They get the ideas and concepts but
faith eludes them.

One man who had this testimony found out his dad had cancer. When they met they started
to share the appreciation they had of each other and the love that was there. It was there
this man started to see Jesus.

Now here on cc I have had many appear to know Christ but stand against love and its centrality.
However they have experienced faith, something is missing. From meeting so many with so many
different walks and emphasis, condemnation is about ones walk, and only the individual knows how
this is.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The question is, is Romans 8:1-2 conditional? Will Christians come into judgement on the last day ? Or would that be double jeopardy and would apply to one of the groups in Hebrews 6 as those who crucify the Lord of glory over and over to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough?
One must ask.

Can a Christian come under judgment on the last day? If so. How can God, or anyone else for that matter, Call that person saved, Saved from what?


If he is not saved from judgment, He is not saved period.

(well unless you take the word saved and give it a different interpretation. which one must ask, why would you do this?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Imagine this

The apostles knew Judas, shared and talked about all that Jesus was and is to them.
Yet he betrayed their Lord, while they walked on. Peter wobbled but then so did they
all even though Jesus said what would happen.

So we will never know who is a friend or an enemy beside us. But Jesus in effect is
saying it does not matter, we should love them all the same. We can only be a witness
to the Lords work in ourselves, and share and help others we meet.

What brings fruit or life is Gods word in our hearts. If it is good soil His word will move
to every part of our lives and transform and remake us. We can help each other sharing
the blessing within, but it is always us and the Lord. It is why no matter what people say
about me or claim how wrong or right I am, it is Gods judgement that is the only thing that
really counts.

I never thought believers would oppose these realities so strongly, but then the Kingdom is
always opposed by many, and people are always keen on not dealing with the issues of the
heart, when issues elsewhere are so much easier to deal with...
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I think the issue is actually simple. The principles Jesus laid out in the sermon on the mount
are about the heart, being true, having love and forgiveness, not playing to the crowd but
loving righteousness and others as our life blood.

Now the term belief is the same as being chosen. But to believe in someone is to actually
know them and how they will react. Jesus says time and again, if you are my friends you
will obey my commands. If you obey my commands I will come and show myself to you.

The dilemma is doing requires a change within, being born of God, catching what love means.
This is the hardest issue of all, and some never get it. They get the ideas and concepts but
faith eludes them.

One man who had this testimony found out his dad had cancer. When they met they started
to share the appreciation they had of each other and the love that was there. It was there
this man started to see Jesus.

Now here on cc I have had many appear to know Christ but stand against love and its centrality.
However they have experienced faith, something is missing. From meeting so many with so many
different walks and emphasis, condemnation is about ones walk, and only the individual knows how
this is.
I would suggest, condemnation is about the judgement of God, as it is written. and not the witness as testimonies of men.

It would seem you shirted around the question? I will try and get back and answer your questions in regard to the sermon on the mount.

And I would suggest we walk by a faith (Christs) that exclusively comes from hearing God as the testimonies that witness the word of God. Not the testimonies of men as the witness of men .Like your example.When they met they started to share the appreciation they had of each other and the love that was there......this man started to see Jesus.(the testimony as the witness of men)

I would think we could be more careful not accredit the possible works of Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God as if it could come by the witness of men . We can plant the seed and another water it with the gospel, but God alone causes the growth if they is to be any. He will not share that glory with creature . The reason for the fall in the garden. In that way just as one is our Father in heaven and we are to call no man father on earth it also applies one is our teacher, the promised Holy Spirit.
There are not four that bear witness on earth from heaven . That would be a Catholic foundation based on walking by sight or that of the the Pharisees with Sadducees. The witness from earth from sinful men (all have sinned) .We therefore let God be true and every man a liar(sinner)

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.1Jo 5:9



I would say we can love Him "because" He first loved us giving new spirit of birth according to His incorruptible seed of His living word. as testimony or the witness of God..

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

It should be understood that the law of the Spirit of life that makes one free from condemnation and from the law of sin and death, HAS A CONDITION ATTACHED TO IT.
That condition being, those who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Those who walk after the flesh are referred to as, carnally minded, and the carnally minded look to and trust in the carnal or natural things of this world for the things they want.
The spiritually minded keep the word of God in their hearts and before their eyes, and look to God
in faith through the promises of His word for the things they want.
It is written, "And the just shall live by faith", but when it comes to not only sickness, but many other things in life, many walk after the flesh for help, by seeking or looking to the natural and not after or to the Spirit.
Why is that?
Because most have not kept the word of God in their heart.
And when the floods and the storms of life come, and they will come, those who built their house on the sand (the word of doctors, or trusting in medications, treatments, or any person or thing in the natural world), will fall.
But if it is built on the word of God, it will stand. And not only will you weather the storms of life, with the floods, but the word you kept will bare fruit. And if it was for healing, then after the will of God is accomplished, you or your loved one will be healed.
If one doesn't have the faith for healing or whatever it might be for God to do for that person, then they are subject to the limits of what the natural can provide. And if that is what is necessary for that person to find relief or to survive, then that person should seek and pursue the natural, but should still do so in faith. To most, that is a blessing of God. And it is, because most don't live by the faith of God.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man drawback, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

It is written, the only way to please God is through faith. Yet if we shrink back in fear from declaring the word of God in faith, or in confident assurance that what the word of God says shall come to pass, in the face of the situation, regardless of what it may be, we are no longer walking after the Spirit, but after the flesh.
The words, draw back, mean to, shrink back in fear.
In many places around the world, declaring one's salvation does not present any threat to that person's life. No need for fear there. But what if we were to declare our healing publicly, according to the word of God, before we had any physical manifestation, and the public knew it?
Would that cause you to shrink back in fear?
Wouldn't you fear being made a fool of?
Well, what if God doesn't do anything.
Oh, the shame of it.
Isn't that what many would think? At least, that is what
those who don't live by faith might think.
In most cases, sickness and disease are a result of the curse of the law of sin.

If you were not condemned, in most cases, no sickness or disease should come on you.
For it is written, Pro 26:2 As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come.
There are of course exceptions.
One being for the word's sake, which would be for the purpose of causing you to fall away from believing the word of God. One of those things the word of God deals with is about our healing through the work of the cross.
The cross not only provided a way for our salvation through faith, but among other things, for our healing and deliverance as well.
For if we are saved by grace through faith, then we are also healed and delivered by grace through this same said faith. For the word saved also means, healed, delivered or protected, preserved, or made whole.
If you had kept the word of God and not fallen away, then you would still believe this.

2 Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)

But those who walk by sight, the testimonies of others,
from personal experience or history, or that of others, and look to and live according to the dictates of the natural, are not living or walking in or after the Spirit, nor by faith.

Therefore, I believe most Christians live in condemnation and are not free in Christ Jesus from the curse of the law of sin, because they walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit in many areas in life. In particular, concerning that of healing from sicknesses and diseases.

One last note.
IT IS
THE WILL OF GOD FOR YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES TO BE HEALED, HEALTHY, WHOLE, AND PROSPEROUS.
seems to be a problem with translation of this verese.
Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death esv

Romans 8: Deliverance from Bondage
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Romans 8: Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.nkjv




12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,Hebrews 10: Christ's Sacrifice Once for All esv
 
Mar 23, 2016
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garee said:
Will Christians come into judgement on the last day ?
I know we will stand and give an account:

Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.


Also, 1 Cor 3:13-15 tells us Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest

I know we will stand and give an account:

Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.


Also, 1 Cor 3:13-15 tells us Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

That's different than being judged (heaven or hell)


one who comes 4th place in the olympics do not get a reward, other than they ran the race, they are not judged.. That's different than someone on trial for murder,, Who if they are found guilty, Are judged and condemned.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
. . . how nearly all PeterJens' posts must begin in his head . . . :p


-JGIG
Well praise the Lord, that my posts are expressions of who I am in the Lord.
It would be strange if not impossible for posts not to begin in peoples heads.

One could imagine they are actually the Holy Spirit, inspiring the writer and then
on to the reader.

I suppose the mystics believe all they do is actually God expressing His thoughts
and ideas through them so these things originate in God.

So this is a strange criticism, but it suggests the belief that peoples spiritual
authority and words are actually Gods. It is why some believe they are actually
equal to scripture in authority and insight.

Now I am humble enough to recognise I am just a follower giving my testimony
in Christ, and bringing Gods word to others. Now Gods word is not mine and my
expressions are testimony to His work in my life. Now if I was taking on the
ministry of a prophet, then it would be Gods word being spoken.

So Hallelujah, the Lord is at work in me, and I pray also in you.
Not a strange criticism at all, PeterJens, because your posts rarely reflect what others or Scripture actually say, but your imaginings of what they say, imaginations which often run completely afoul of reality.

You don't bring God's Word to others, you bring your imaginings to others. Yet you HAVE claimed to bring the very Word of God when expressing your opinions, and took quite a bit of heat for it.

But you likely don't remember any of that, and you'll carry on as you always do, in total contradiction of your signature line, sigh.

-JGIG

Oh look! You very nearly claimed inspiration in your very next post!

Originally Posted by PeterJens

What is the biggest criticism you could make of a preacher?

It is your ideas and not Gods.
But how do you know the preacher is not reflecting Gods heart and mind?

By reading the word of God, the bible, and getting a grasp of what they are
sharing. This is why Jesus spoke in parables, so you work through the ideas
they become part of you, and are powerful.

We are the branches of the vine. Our life is in Christ, and what we share in the
Kingdom is inspired, deluged in His Spirit and His love. Jesus is saying we have this
intimacy, once you grasp what the cross means and is, your heart is set.

It is not more complex than this. But for some you need the right theology, the right
preacher, the right lenses. No. You just need the love of God working out through you
and this begins by letting His word dwell in you as a living thing, and you obey its
promptings. But this seems too difficult for many. I do not know why other than it is
a testimony to the stubborness of the human heart.



I especially like how you built up yourself and criticized other believers. Predictably done!




 
Last edited:
Mar 23, 2016
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eternally-gratefull said:
That's different than being judged (heaven or hell)
I understand that. However, there will be a time where we stand and give an account and some of what we have done will not withstand the revealing by fire.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest

I understand that. However, there will be a time where we stand and give an account and some of what we have done will not withstand the revealing by fire.
True And if so. As Paul said, We will STILL be saved, even though as through fire.

Our salvation is not in question, What we will be rewarded with is.

As Paul said, there is no condemnation for those in Christ.

 
Nov 22, 2015
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Not a strange criticism at all, PeterJens, because your posts rarely reflect what others or Scripture actually say, but your imaginings of what they say, imaginations which often run completely afoul of reality.

You don't bring God's Word to others, you bring your imaginings to others. Yet you HAVE claimed to bring the very Word of God when expressing your opinions, and took quite a bit of heat for it.

But you likely don't remember any of that, and you'll carry on as you always do, in total contradiction of your signature line, sigh.

-JGIG

Oh look! You very nearly claimed inspiration in your very next post!

Originally Posted by PeterJens

What is the biggest criticism you could make of a preacher?

It is your ideas and not Gods.
But how do you know the preacher is not reflecting Gods heart and mind?

By reading the word of God, the bible, and getting a grasp of what they are
sharing. This is why Jesus spoke in parables, so you work through the ideas
they become part of you, and are powerful.

We are the branches of the vine. Our life is in Christ, and what we share in the
Kingdom is inspired, deluged in His Spirit and His love. Jesus is saying we have this
intimacy, once you grasp what the cross means and is, your heart is set.

It is not more complex than this. But for some you need the right theology, the right
preacher, the right lenses. No. You just need the love of God working out through you
and this begins by letting His word dwell in you as a living thing, and you obey its
promptings. But this seems too difficult for many. I do not know why other than it is
a testimony to the stubborness of the human heart.



I especially like how you built up yourself and criticized other believers. Predictably done!




This type of behavior has been going on for about 1 year now that I have been on here - maybe longer for those of you that have been here from the start. Avoiding this behavior is our only recourse until it is dealt with in some fashion.

And this is why we need to take Romans 16:17 into consideration as there is no repentance and dealing with this kind of mindset is just destructive and it can lead to 1 Cor. 15:33 which then can lead to a Hebrews 12:15 situation.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
The question is, is Romans 8:1-2 conditional? Will Christians come into judgement on the last day ? Or would that be double jeopardy and would apply to one of the groups in Hebrews 6 as those who crucify the Lord of glory over and over to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough?

18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (from Jn. 3)

-JGIG