Romans 8:1-2, is conditional

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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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When we took care of my father, dehydration was the big no. 1 problem. He would forget to drink. We kept lots of water nearby and encouraged my dad to drink whenever we walked in the room, or sat with him. Even when we reminded him and he would say yeah he was thirsty he would then forget to drink. We had to pick up the glass and put the straw in his mouth. So remember keep your loved one well hydrated. :)
is your father still with you?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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no. he passed in 2011. :(

he was well cared for by my sisters and myself. he knew we loved him and we knew he loved us.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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miknik5 said:
Yes. We took care of my father. He passed away in May 2014.
I am so thankful for the truth in Scripture which assures us of our life in eternity. Even as we miss our loved ones, we are confident in God's promise of our future life together. God sure does know how to comfort our hearts.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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I am so thankful for the truth in Scripture which assures us of our life in eternity. Even as we miss our loved ones, we are confident in God's promise of our future life together. God sure does know how to comfort our hearts.
Yes I trust in GOD's PROMISES. My father was a simple man. He spoke a lot about the church in his last weeks of life.
 
P

Preacha24-7

Guest
Most mature Christians understand what Romans8:1-2 means. A lot of Christians feel guilty because of unconfessed sin. They don't repent and Satan lies to them. 1Cor2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Let's go back to Romans. Walking in the flesh means walking in the natural or acting like the world. Some Christians I've met are very Carnal(acting like the world). Born Again Christians are supposed to walk in the Spirit. You can't defeat the devil in the flesh. Acts1:8 But ye shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes
Upon you. How do we defeat the Devil?
1.The name of Jesus
2. Walking in the power& Anointing of the Holy Ghost
3. The Word of God
To God be the Glory Preacha24-7
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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That is simply untrue. What about p66, D, A, f1, f13 to name but a few.? You need to get your facts straight.
I apologize for the error, sir.
Instead of saying they all came from one or the other, I meant to say they AGREE with one or the other.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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Most mature Christians understand what Romans8:1-2 means. A lot of Christians feel guilty because of unconfessed sin. They don't repent and Satan lies to them. 1Cor2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Let's go back to Romans. Walking in the flesh means walking in the natural or acting like the world. Some Christians I've met are very Carnal(acting like the world). Born Again Christians are supposed to walk in the Spirit. You can't defeat the devil in the flesh. Acts1:8 But ye shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes
Upon you. How do we defeat the Devil?
1.The name of Jesus
2. Walking in the power& Anointing of the Holy Ghost
3. The Word of God
To God be the Glory Preacha24-7
How do we defeat the devil?
The battle is the lords, and the victory is ours.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


If a child of God is feeling guilty over unconfessed sin, they should do what God's word says by repenting and confessing it to the Father.
No more guilt, end of problem.
I think walking in the flesh entails many things.
The bible lists many of them, but here's some that might not be so obvious.
When we say what is or what we see or have, rather than what the word of God says when they contradict each other, we are walking in the flesh. (for example, if you pray for something that only God could cause to manifest, but later when someone approached you concerning the matter, and you told them the way it was by saying, 'I don't know why God didn't give me the thing I asked for')
When we fail to act on the word or voice of God, due to fear, we are walking in the flesh.
When we walk by sight, feeling, personal testimonies or past experiences of self and/or others, that contradict the word of God, we are walking in the flesh.
When we look at, believe, and act on the natural, rather than the word of God. (For example, you feel sick, so you envision yourself home in bed and then start looking for some type of medication to ease any discomfort)
And I suppose the list could go on and on.
We walk in the Spirit when the fruits of the Spirit manifest in our live and/or when we obey the voice of the Spirit and do what the word of God says.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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But we're not the "LIFE BOAT"
So what we do for others by offering temporal healing is still empty passing secondary works for the one who does not recognize the "LIFE BOAT" and a poor poor unacceptable substitute from the one who claims he does know and recognize the "LIFE BOAT"

what good is it to be in the "LIFE BOAT" yet pull others along and yet withhold from them the knowledge that they should also be in the "LIFE BOAT" alongside us?

How righteous is that?
to offer your own construct but not offer THE TRUE and NECESSARY CINSTRUCT?

Is that really loving your neighbor as your own soul?
I remember the analogy of people falling off a cliff into hell and only a few people standing
up and preaching to help the lost.

And analogies are just that, a picture. And yes we can only share and reach out to people,
it is the Lord who saves and bring faith to life in their hearts. What I lack at the moment is
the vision to see this work in an more alive sense, because so often the words may be true,
but they seem to bounce off people.

A for instance is taking the words the harvest is ripe and ready for harvesting, when in reality
the people are hard and dismissive of anything religious or about God. A few are willing to listen
but most do not want to know. So our Alpha course have a few who come, and a few who
commit to the Lord. But for most it is not on their agenda.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
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I remember the analogy of people falling off a cliff into hell and only a few people standing
up and preaching to help the lost.

And analogies are just that, a picture. And yes we can only share and reach out to people,
it is the Lord who saves and bring faith to life in their hearts. What I lack at the moment is
the vision to see this work in an more alive sense, because so often the words may be true,
but they seem to bounce off people.

A for instance is taking the words the harvest is ripe and ready for harvesting, when in reality
the people are hard and dismissive of anything religious or about God. A few are willing to listen
but most do not want to know. So our Alpha course have a few who come, and a few who
commit to the Lord. But for most it is not on their agenda.
Nobody told you to already decide when and where to cast the seed. If you do understand that it is all HIS WORK that was all you were supposed to have understood.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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If you take a point Paul makes and isolate it, it makes sense, but comes at a priceof rejecting the rest of scripture and truth.

If Christ has begun the good work of His faith in us as to the salvation of our souls, he will work in us to finish it till the last day. Christians will not enter judgment on the last day . That would be double jeopardy


A sinner is a different person than Gods Holy people.The question has always been, what is the real difference?
One has the eternal forgiven wage of sin applied ,as to "as man" the father has given the Son, the others hearts remain hard. It is God who alone can make our hearts soft. The key is “as many”.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

The sad reality is we are our experience and things we have programmed in to our lives.
Yes , we don’t walk after our experiences(walking by sight) We walk by His faith that comes from hearing Him.

Sinners are the result of internal unresolved conflicts which create inappropriate behaviour, which all societies identify as a problem.
Sinners are the result of being born into the world, spiritually separated from God and therefore no way to seek after Him so they could understand.This is regard to corrupted body that ages in a decay process leading toward as death and the returning to the dust they were formed from.

There is no work we can do to save us from our sin or maintain a relationship with God. We love him each time so that we then can love Him. He turn us towards Him so that them we can repent. To repent is a work of God working in us.If he does not first turn us as the first work no man could of his own volition.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyesThis only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish? having “begun in the Spirit”, are ye now made perfect “by the flesh”? Gal 3:1
God declares this has all come about because we have rejected Him and live alone.
The man without the spirit cannot understand the things of the Spirit of Christ .Christians must compare the spiritual with the spiritual. We can Love Him only because he has given us eternal life. The Potter does with the lump of clay which his soul pleases. Rejecting one while having mercy on another.

But you do not become a saint overnight, and all the things you have learnt to dodo not miraculous change at gaining faith. There is no such thing as instant perfection.
Yes again if He has begun the good work in us to both will and do his good pleasure he will finish it. We are to have no confidence in the flesh in respect to what we do experience. Going to church does not establish a person is a Christian.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

And that is the point. If faith alone changed us, the church would be full of perfect people walking perfect lives. So to follow Jesus is to commit to change and work which bears fruit in a different person being created. It is the desire we want to be different that inspires us to walk after Jesus, so to deny this is to deny why we are following. Unless of course you are happy as you are, you just want heaven as well, lol.

it is the faith of God alone that can create new creatures with a new eternal spirit and new heart in respect to the change he works in us.

We are blessed made happy as he works in us according to His faith. We can see the faith of Christ the Holy anointing Spirit of Godworking in Abraham to both will and do His good pleasure in the parable in James 2 below.

It is the work of Christ wrought in us that makes us complete in Him or perfect. He is the author and perfecter of His faith that works in us... making His faith perfect. It is not of our selves or Abraham could of boasted.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham justified by the work of Christ’s faith?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith (Christ’s) wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham “believed God”, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:21
 
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Nobody told you to already decide when and where to cast the seed. If you do understand that it is all HIS WORK that was all you were supposed to have understood.
This sounds at first advice, but in reality we choose what and how to share everytime
we share. For instance which point you want to make to me is a choice and how you
make it is another choice. We cannot get away from our choices, but we can commit
them to the Lord and ask for guidance.

And in every culture it takes time to listen and to see.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Nobody told you to already decide when and where to cast the seed. If you do understand that it is all HIS WORK that was all you were supposed to have understood.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
Matt 28:19-20

Sounds like we have all been told a lot of things my friend.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Fruitfullness

Many christian ministries define themselves by the fruit they create.
Often peoples lives are defined either by success or failure in this regard.

It is a hard thing to feel defeat after a lot of effort, but then if the effort
has been called and blessed by the Lord, it is a good thing.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Context is so important in scriptures. We need to always look to see "who is being spoken to".

For example, if you look at Matt. 28:19-20 Jesus was only talking to the 11 disciples.

Jesus had appeared to over 500 others after His resurrection but He never told them the same things He told the 11 He had picked out to go to the nations.

Jesus each tells us individually what it is that " we are to do". Trying to fulfill someone else's call from the Lord is a possible spiritual shipwreck about to happen.

Does Jesus still call some to "go and make disciples"?...Yes...of course because the truth of this is still valid today and will be tomorrow.

Trying to fulfill someone else's word from the Lord to them is not wise and it ends being a bunch of religious manipulation to get others to do things.

This all seems "good" and "righteous" but it isn't and it only serves to confuse people for their life with the Lord and can end up being a complete mess in some people's lives.

Matthew 28:16-20 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

[SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
 
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Context is so important in scriptures. We need to always look to see "who is being spoken to".

For example, if you look at Matt. 28:19-20 Jesus was only talking to the 11 disciples.
Now imagine this. All the gospels were spoken only to the listeners, and meant for no one else.
Pauls letters were only written to the churches of the new testament and no one else.

All the books were written and sent to particular people. It is just rude to read someone elses post
and books. They are nice stories but not for us in 2016.

This is the logic being used by grace777.

The church took these books and called them scripture because all of them are written to us as
believers. This has been the teaching in the church. Even all the old testament is for us, though we
need to understand some is specific to Israel as a nation and not Christs body, except as an allegory.

So there is context in particular situations, but it all applies, one unchanging God speaking to man
about himself and ourselves.

If you go down the road of audiences you end up without any faith at all.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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What amazes me is the presumption

Since I was a child Gods word is Gods word to all.
But grace777 is happy to take authority on himself and redefine it all.

That takes guts or stupidity. It is the ravings of a nutcase or a heretic.
I leave it up to you to decide.

Jesus used the minor prophets, Jonah to deliver the message of salvation.
So though this message was given to Nineveh, it is actually to the whole of mankind.

So Jesus does the opposite to grace777, he takes the obscure and hidden and puts
it in the middle and shows it is everything and eternal.

So please see what spirit flows from someone doing the opposite to Christ.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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It would appear that this was totally missed in what was really being said but this is not unusual and is really to be expected by certain people which is why Romans 16:17 needs to be put into place with some people that continually display this kind of behavior.

Quote:


Does Jesus still call some to "go and make disciples"?...Yes...of course because the truth of this is still valid today and will be tomorrow.

Jesus each tells us individually what it is that " we are to do". Trying to fulfill someone else's call from the Lord is a possible spiritual shipwreck about to happen.

Trying to fulfill someone else's word from the Lord to them is not wise and it ends being a bunch of religious manipulation to get others to do things.

This all seems "good" and "righteous" but it isn't and it only serves to confuse people for their life with the Lord and can end up being a complete mess in some people's lives.

UNQUOTE:
 
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Maybe this article might help us to see things in "context" when reading scripture. It's important to not take someone else's medicine.

I like to sometimes use this site as it has questions at the bottom of the article where people can ask questions.

Whose Medicine are You Taking? The Dangers of Taking Scripture Out of Context

Two men go to see the doctor. The first is suffering from advanced cancer and needs a life-saving intervention. The second is completely healthy and is going for a routine check-up. The doctor is a perfect physician and prescribes the appropriate medication in each case.
However, the pharmacist bungles the prescriptions and gives each man the other’s medicine. The man with cancer is given multivitamins and told to exercise daily while the healthy man is given an extensive course of chemotherapy. Unsurprisingly, the sick man dies from taking the wrong pills while the healthy man suffers unnecessarily.

In this parable the perfect physician represents Jesus. Jesus understands every single person and always prescribes the perfect medicine.

For the self-righteous sinner that medicine might be a judicious application of the law. The Bible tells us that the law is good if used properly (1 Tim 1:8).

Its purpose is to break our pride, silence our self-righteousness and reveal our need for a Divine Savior. Ultimately the law is meant to lead us to Jesus (Gal 3:24) that we may receive the gift of his righteousness (Rms 5:17).

But the law is of no use to the saint who has already been set free from the cancer of sin. The observance of regulations, which has an appearance of wisdom, will enslave the free and do nothing to promote godly living (Gal 5:1, Col 2:23).

The best medicine for saints is a healthy dose of God’s grace supplemented with the daily exercise of faith in the One who is able to keep us from falling (Jud 1:24).

The parable explained (in case you haven’t already figured it out)

In the parable the confused pharmacist represents the preacher who mistakenly dispenses grace to sinners and law to saints. The result is that both will be made worse off.

The sinner will wrongly believe that all is well even as death and hell reach out for him. The saint will wrongly believe that eternity hinges on his ability to deliver a righteous performance for Jesus. Instead of walking in the freedom that Christ brings, he will come under guilt and condemnation as he strives, and fails, to live at Christ’s level. He will be miserable and his hair will fall out from stress.

The Bible can be considered a repository of life-saving medicine. The entire Bible is useful for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16). But confused preachers sometimes prescribe the wrong medicine. With the best of intentions they may do more harm than good.

Let me give you an example from the three chapters of 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Peter.
In chapter 1 Peter discusses the forgiveness, grace and power that comes from God.

In chapter 2 Peter warns the church about the false prophets and false teachers who are “among you” (v.1).

What do these guys look like? How do we recognize them? Peter says they are those who follow the way of Balaam (v.15), are “slaves of depravity” (v.19), and who know about Jesus but “never stop sinning” (v.14). In short they are sinners who know about the things of God (like Balaam did), who are acquainted with the “way of righteousness,” but they’ve turned their backs on it (v.21) and so remain under condemnation (v.3).

Peter clearly distinguishes these “unrighteous” men from the “godly men that God rescues from trials” (v.9).

In chapter 3 Peter turns his attention back to the saints four times referring to them as his “dear friends.” If chapter 2 is full of fury at the ungodly infiltrating positions of leadership within the church, chapter 3 contains fatherly exhortations for the saints.

So where’s the danger?

Problems arise when the medicine-dispensers (preachers, teachers, bloggers) confuse the “dear friends” of chapter 3 with the “slaves of depravity” of chapter 2.

Harsh, condemning words meant for wicked men are spoken over those whom Christ calls righteous. Instead of being warned about the dangers of listening to false teachers and prophets, saints are treated as if they were somehow false themselves.

Inevitably the misguided pharmacist concludes with an appeal for greater human effort thus insulting the grace of God and denying the finished work of the cross. Instead of finishing with praise and thanksgiving for Jesus who has qualified them, Christians are likely to leave feeling worse than when they came in.

Like Peter, Jude similarly draws a line between “godless men” and his “dear friends” who are loved and kept by Jesus.

It’s important to note that both types of people are found inside the church. Jude says of these godless men who deny Jesus Christ as Lord that they have “slipped in among you” (v.4).

Again, in the hands of a confused preacher, Jude’s warning to the saints can be twisted into a doctrine of human effort. The punch-line might contain Jude’s words but not his meaning: “Contend for the faith, keep yourself in the love of God, lest you end up like them.”

But Jude’s message is “woe to them” (v.11), not “woe to you.” Jude’s medicine of rebuke is specifically for the godless who remain under condemnation, not the saint who is made righteous by Jesus.

The punch-line of Jude’s letter is one of the clearest assurances a Christian can have that they are justified, sanctified and kept by Jesus:

To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy — to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. (v:24-25)

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/02/04/whose-medicine-are-you-taking/


Now - that is good news!!! Thank you Jesus!