Prayer language vs prophecy

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#1
There are some here who feel that tongues are exclusively the prophetic utterances that were presented in Acts 2, and in doing so they deny 'prayer language' tongues. To help show that Paul preached and differentiated the two, here is 1 Corinthians 14 presented to show the differential presentation of prophecy and 'prayer language'.

Prophecy is presented in red
Prayer language is presented in blue

1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

6Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written: “With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”

22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming,“God is really among you!”

26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
*
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#2
It is the last few words of your post that sum it up,"in a fitting and orderly way". Those who do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore have no direct relationship with Jesus see tongues as confusion. They pick up on the orderly bit and restrain the rest of what the Spirit would do. Those who know, also know that the Spirit is the living connection to Jesus within us. Not all do speak in tongues, but even those who do not also know the voice of Jesus and recognise when truth is spoken.

The enemy wants nothing more than to limit the power of God through the senses of the flesh. If some follow the Spirit they can see this, and should not be discouraged. Those who do not, will not understand and rail against it to no avail.

Either way a good post thank you for taking the time. God bless.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#3
Exactly. Paul said he wished we all would speak in tongues, but this chapter clearly shows that he would rather us not do it than do it wrong. That's why he took the time to detail time and place, and in effect tell some to put a leash on it.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#4
How are you defining tongues and how are you defining prophecy?

Are you defining tongues as human languages or as something else?

Are you defining prophecy as new revelation from God or as forth telling from the scriptures?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#5
I use prayer language every day and night. Same language I use to communicate with family, friends, and pretty much anyone else I come into contact with on a daily basis.

I have read the Greater and Lesser Prophets in Scripture, and, other than the fact that the King James is sorta, kinda, different than the language I use, it is still based on my language.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6
I use prayer language every day and night. Same language I use to communicate with family, friends, and pretty much anyone else I come into contact with on a daily basis.

I have read the Greater and Lesser Prophets in Scripture, and, other than the fact that the King James is sorta, kinda, different than the language I use, it is still based on my language.
Now don't spoil it for them. I think they are trying to hatch something here.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
113
#7
I Corinthians 14: KJV

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I would encourage you all to read the KJV version I have posted above and then read the version in the opening post.. You will see a difference in them.. in verse 2 the KJV s states Unknown tongue but the OP's version leaves out the word unknown and just states tongue.. This sounds like a small difference but as the chapter goes on it later states that prophecy is greater then tongues except He interpret (that tongue) that the church may be edified.. You see in the KJV version is it saying that the unknown tongue is a tongue that may be interpreted if there is someone who can.. But in the OP version it starts out saying that the tongue is not understandable to any man that it is some kind of angel non human language.. while the KJV Hints that the language is a human language that simply is not understood by the congregation unless there is someone there who can interpret it..
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#8
1 Corinthians 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

1 Corinthians 14:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;

[SUP]19 [/SUP] however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:37-40 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.

[SUP]38 [/SUP] But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

[SUP]39 [/SUP] Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

[SUP]40 [/SUP] But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#9
I cannot speak for anyone else... but the reason why I am slightly sceptical when it comes to tongues is that I have heard it used many times in church without interpretation Like your verses and highlights clearly tells us, if has to be interpreted if it is to edify the church (rather than being a private thing between the speaker and God).

Maybe most people don't have / remember to use their "private" prayer language? (I wouldn't know, as I've never spoken in tongues neither here nor there)
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#10
To have a profitable conversation we must all be speaking the same language. That is to say we must have a common definition of the terms being employed.

In any language there can be no understanding if the words mean different and even contradictory things to the others in the conversation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#11
How are you defining tongues and how are you defining prophecy?

Are you defining tongues as human languages or as something else?

Are you defining prophecy as new revelation from God or as forth telling from the scriptures?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Now don't spoil it for them. I think they are trying to hatch something here.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
To have a profitable conversation we must all be speaking the same language. That is to say we must have a common definition of the terms being employed.

In any language there can be no understanding if the words mean different and even contradictory things to the others in the conversation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Roger, you are a false teacher. I can prove that you are a false teacher. I will politely ask you to abstain from posting in my thread(s). Thank you.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#12
Roger, you are a false teacher. I can prove that you are a false teacher. I will politely ask you to abstain from posting in my thread(s). Thank you.
Seems you are the one with an aversion to the truth.

You can prove nothing you can only accuse.

You started the thread and you are the one to defend what you are posting. If you are not genuine it will be made manifest by the word of God.

Why do you resist defining your terms and entering into genuine discussion of the scriptures?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#13
The devil knows scripture as good as Jesus does, which is why he misrepresents so cleverly and so very closely to the truth, he is, sorry, IT is an angel of light after all. Those without the Spirit do not understand what the Spirit is about. These things are foolishness to them. Satan knows that those without the Spirit of God can be manipulated to need to understand everything, which is why they make God in their own image and limit Him to not being able to do things which the mind can not understand.

Defining terms and hatching things are what the flesh does. They are also what the flesh understands and tries to impose on others. The Spirit is what He is, Life, and health, and an eternity with Jesus. Which starts on earth and blows your mind if it we try and comprehend it with our own understanding.

If anyone reading this does not understand what I have written, Be assured I am praying that the enemies influence in you will be removed so that The Spirit of God can make his presence known to you so you will be able to make a choice to receive Him for yourselves and truly know Jesus. tongues or not.

This is going to cost me, I can feel it already. In Jesus name I stand and am preprepared to give all. In Jesus name.

God bless
 
E

eph610

Guest
#14
How are you defining tongues and how are you defining prophecy?

Are you defining tongues as human languages or as something else?

Are you defining prophecy as new revelation from God or as forth telling from the scriptures?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
1 Cor 14 tells us to prophesy is to speak words of edification, exhortation and comfort to men.

Modern prophecy is not some Pastor prattling on and on in a dry exposition of the scriptures either...

What are your definitions of the gifts of the Word of Wisdom and the Word of Knowledge?
These gifts have to do with prophesying and not anything we do in the natural or any natural traits like human intellect, charisma, education, or anything else in the natural mind.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#15
1 Cor 14 tells us to prophesy is to speak words of edification, exhortation and comfort to men.
So then prophecy is a verb and action not a noun or a thing?
Modern prophecy is not some Pastor prattling on and on in a dry exposition of the scriptures either...
Perhaps you need to take that up with your pastor. Exposition of the scriptures is exciting when the Holy Spirit is moving and opening the scriptures to our understanding.
What are your definitions of the gifts of the Word of Wisdom and the Word of Knowledge?
These gifts have to do with prophesying and not anything we do in the natural or any natural traits like human intellect, charisma, education, or anything else in the natural mind.
I'm not seeing that in scripture. I see scripture producing wisdom and knowledge and understanding as a ministry of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of believers. Is that what you are referring to?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

eph610

Guest
#16
So then prophecy is a verb and action not a noun or a thing?
Prophecy is spoken word so how could it be a thing? If you believe the Word of God is alive and powerful then prophecy is an action...

Perhaps you need to take that up with your pastor. Exposition of the scriptures is exciting when the Holy Spirit is moving and opening the scriptures to our understanding.


I'm not seeing that in scripture. I see scripture producing wisdom and knowledge and understanding as a ministry of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of believers. Is that what you are referring to?
Good, glad you do not see that in scripture, because many think that is what those gifts mean.

So going with your idea, would you also say that scripture alone produce salvation? Does scripture divide severally as HE wills? Does scripture produce the giving to one something and to one another? Does Scripture give each one the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good? Are you saying the Holy Spirit is scripture!?!?

Is 1 Cor 12 about the Holy Ghost and his gifts upon believers or the scriptures producing gifts of healing, tongues/interpretations, prophecy, discerning of Spirits, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, working of miracles...

How can scripture be a HE?????? How can scripture produce isdom and knowledge and understanding as a ministry of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of believers, when the scripture tells us HE divides these as he wills....
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#17
I use prayer language every day and night. Same language I use to communicate with family, friends, and pretty much anyone else I come into contact with on a daily basis.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, despite what many Pentasmatics will tell you. Tongues are in no way, shape, or form required of anyone.

But tell me, if God said there was something you could voluntarily do to edify yourself and the church, why would one not do it?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#18
I Corinthians 14: KJV

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I would encourage you all to read the KJV version I have posted above and then read the version in the opening post.. You will see a difference in them.. in verse 2 the KJV s states Unknown tongue but the OP's version leaves out the word unknown and just states tongue.. This sounds like a small difference but as the chapter goes on it later states that prophecy is greater then tongues except He interpret (that tongue) that the church may be edified.. You see in the KJV version is it saying that the unknown tongue is a tongue that may be interpreted if there is someone who can.. But in the OP version it starts out saying that the tongue is not understandable to any man that it is some kind of angel non human language.. while the KJV Hints that the language is a human language that simply is not understood by the congregation unless there is someone there who can interpret it..
How did I know someone would take me to task for not using the KJV? ;)

The question is, do you interpret scripture in it's entirety, or do you hang your interpretation on one specific word?

When I first started speaking in 'prayer language' tongues I didn't know what I was 'babbling' about. But I asked God if I could know such things. After that I began to get visions of things as I was praying. That then grew into a reverse situation, where I would consciously pray for something in my mind with the understanding that I was praying for the same thing in the tongue. I think that's the meaning of asking for interpretation of the prayer language, so that both your mind and spirit are fruitful in it. I mean, people do have a point (that even Paul made), if you don't know what you are babbling about how can that be edifying? But that's just one of the mysteries of faith. I don't understand everything in God's word, but I do know that if it's in God's word it has to be true, despite my lack of understanding.
 
E

eph610

Guest
#19
I Corinthians 14: KJV

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I would encourage you all to read the KJV version I have posted above and then read the version in the opening post.. You will see a difference in them.. in verse 2 the KJV s states Unknown tongue but the OP's version leaves out the word unknown and just states tongue.. This sounds like a small difference but as the chapter goes on it later states that prophecy is greater then tongues except He interpret (that tongue) that the church may be edified.. You see in the KJV version is it saying that the unknown tongue is a tongue that may be interpreted if there is someone who can.. But in the OP version it starts out saying that the tongue is not understandable to any man that it is some kind of angel non human language.. while the KJV Hints that the language is a human language that simply is not understood by the congregation unless there is someone there who can interpret it..
I was ministering in a Prison service once and all the guys asked me...Hey preach what version of the Bible is the best one to have!?!?!?


THE ONE YOU WILL READ!!!!, I REPLIED


 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#20
The devil knows scripture as good as Jesus does, which is why he misrepresents so cleverly and so very closely to the truth, he is, sorry, IT is an angel of light after all. Those without the Spirit do not understand what the Spirit is about. These things are foolishness to them. Satan knows that those without the Spirit of God can be manipulated to need to understand everything, which is why they make God in their own image and limit Him to not being able to do things which the mind can not understand.

Defining terms and hatching things are what the flesh does. They are also what the flesh understands and tries to impose on others. The Spirit is what He is, Life, and health, and an eternity with Jesus. Which starts on earth and blows your mind if it we try and comprehend it with our own understanding.

If anyone reading this does not understand what I have written, Be assured I am praying that the enemies influence in you will be removed so that The Spirit of God can make his presence known to you so you will be able to make a choice to receive Him for yourselves and truly know Jesus. tongues or not.

This is going to cost me, I can feel it already. In Jesus name I stand and am preprepared to give all. In Jesus name.

God bless
1 Cor 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (KJV)

It's funny how often this verse (and a few companions) have come before me as I pray for a certain gentleman here who is now on permanent ignore.