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Not to mention that if it was more or less than 144000 then one of the following two or three is correct...
1. God cannot count
2. God was deceptive about the actual number
3. John was not inspired
4. John was mistaken and or got it wrong
5. John lied when he used the precise number of 144000
I will stick with God knew exactly the number that he would inspire John to write, it is precise and literal!
1. God cannot count
2. God was deceptive about the actual number
3. John was not inspired
4. John was mistaken and or got it wrong
5. John lied when he used the precise number of 144000
I will stick with God knew exactly the number that he would inspire John to write, it is precise and literal!
E
The jews reject Daniel, because in it God said messiah would come 69 weeks after the treaty to order the restoration of the city of Jerusalem came and went, and no messiah, even though Jesus entered Jerusalem to the day prophesied.
Maybe if they would have taken hm literally, they would have seen, the one they crucified was the messiah. and not have become blind.
Maybe if they would have taken hm literally, they would have seen, the one they crucified was the messiah. and not have become blind.
No.
The Book of Revelation has one purpose, and that is to repeat two events over and over and over...
These two events are The First Resurrection & the Second Resurrection.
Each time that it repeats this sequence, the First Resurrection is mentioned first (obviously) and then the Second Resurrection...each time a different set of details and epithets are used for the same individuals.
The very construction of Heaven informs the reader that Spiritual Israel is the intent....i.e. EVERYONE from the entire planet believing in a Triune God...
The Book of Revelation has one purpose, and that is to repeat two events over and over and over...
These two events are The First Resurrection & the Second Resurrection.
Each time that it repeats this sequence, the First Resurrection is mentioned first (obviously) and then the Second Resurrection...each time a different set of details and epithets are used for the same individuals.
The very construction of Heaven informs the reader that Spiritual Israel is the intent....i.e. EVERYONE from the entire planet believing in a Triune God...
E
The book of revelation is just a continuance of daniel. It takes what was given in daniel concerning end times events, and makes them even clearer by giving us more information.
Thus it must be translated as daniel is translated.
The events up till this time in daniel have been literally fulfilled. It goes to reasin, the events which have not yet been fulfilled will be fulfilled literally also.
to read anything else into it, is to remove the purpose of prophesy. WHich is to prove when the events occure, to the people alive at that time, God is the one true God.
If we symbolise it, Prophesy loses its meaning and purpose. plain and simple.
God did not break His covenant with them, the physical or natural Israelites, true, but the natural Israelite broke the covenant with God, thus the covenant was broken and God wasn't obligated to keep them as a "physical earthly nation" after that. A covenant is a contract, when one party breaks the contract, the contract is considered void. If you enter into a contract with a bank via a mortgage, and fail to pay the agreed amount, the bank is not required to uphold it's agreement with you and they will repossess the house. Although God forgave them many times, to demonstrate his mercy, the final straw came when the Jew rejected Christ as their messiah and crucified Him.
Deuteronomy 11:13
New American Standard Bible
"It shall come about, if you listen obediently to my commandments which I am commanding you today, to love the LORD your God and to serve Him with all your heart and all your soul,
Leviticus 26
18 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 I will break the pride of your power;
I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze.
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain;
for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit.
21 ‘Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, destroy your livestock, and make you few in number;
and your highways shall be desolate.
23 ‘And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me,
24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times (7 trumpets and 7 bulls in Revelation, it is no coincidence) for your sins.
25And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant;
when you are gathered together within your cities I will send pestilence among you;
and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 When I have cut off your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall bring back your bread by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied. (this actually happened when Jerusalem was under siege for 3 and a half years, 70ad).
27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury; (Israel the nation today are still in denial and reject Jesus)
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. (again, no coincidence).
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters. (actually happened and recorded by Josephus flavius).
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you arein your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
36 ‘And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies;
the sound of a shaken leaf shall cause them to flee;
they shall flee as though fleeing from a sword, and they shall fall when no one pursues.
37 They shall stumble over one another, as it were before a sword, when no one pursues;
and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 You shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And those of you who are left shall waste away in their iniquity in your enemies’ lands;
also in their fathers’ iniquities, which are with them, they shall waste away.
40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.’”
46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws which the Lord made between Himself and the children of Israel on Mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.
Jesus says in His parable in Matthew 22:22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them (the chief priests and pharisees, see 21:45) again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king (God the Father) who arranged a marriage for his son (Jesus),3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding (the Jews, He came to the Jews first, the the gentiles); and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”’5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. (the Jewish rulers did this to His disciples, in Acts we have the account of Steven being stoned)7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.(this came true 70ad)8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways (go to the gentiles, beyond the boarders of natural Israel), and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
Praise God, this is the Mystery revealed to Paul in Ephesians 3, the Church is the God's eternal destiny, the temple of God, the new man, the bride of Christ!!!
Deuteronomy 11:13
New American Standard Bible
"It shall come about, if you listen obediently to my commandments which I am commanding you today, to love the LORD your God and to serve Him with all your heart and all your soul,
Leviticus 26
18 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 I will break the pride of your power;
I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze.
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain;
for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit.
21 ‘Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, destroy your livestock, and make you few in number;
and your highways shall be desolate.
23 ‘And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me,
24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times (7 trumpets and 7 bulls in Revelation, it is no coincidence) for your sins.
25And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant;
when you are gathered together within your cities I will send pestilence among you;
and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 When I have cut off your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall bring back your bread by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied. (this actually happened when Jerusalem was under siege for 3 and a half years, 70ad).
27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury; (Israel the nation today are still in denial and reject Jesus)
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. (again, no coincidence).
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters. (actually happened and recorded by Josephus flavius).
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you arein your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
36 ‘And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies;
the sound of a shaken leaf shall cause them to flee;
they shall flee as though fleeing from a sword, and they shall fall when no one pursues.
37 They shall stumble over one another, as it were before a sword, when no one pursues;
and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 You shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And those of you who are left shall waste away in their iniquity in your enemies’ lands;
also in their fathers’ iniquities, which are with them, they shall waste away.
40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.’”
46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws which the Lord made between Himself and the children of Israel on Mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.
Jesus says in His parable in Matthew 22:22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them (the chief priests and pharisees, see 21:45) again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king (God the Father) who arranged a marriage for his son (Jesus),3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding (the Jews, He came to the Jews first, the the gentiles); and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”’5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. (the Jewish rulers did this to His disciples, in Acts we have the account of Steven being stoned)7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.(this came true 70ad)8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways (go to the gentiles, beyond the boarders of natural Israel), and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
Praise God, this is the Mystery revealed to Paul in Ephesians 3, the Church is the God's eternal destiny, the temple of God, the new man, the bride of Christ!!!
E
1. God said it was an eternal covenant
2. God said even after they broke their covenant with him, he would never destroy them.
3. God promised even after this, he would still remember his covenant made with the fathers.
All these things I showed in my post. so not sure what is in question here.
Excellent post. But i think you forgot how it ended. a promise God made to them EVEN after they suffered total defeat, total destruction of their city because of their unfaithfulness.
40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.’” If this is no longer in effect. then Gods covenant as confirmed in lev 26 was a lie. and God never intended to keep it in the first place.
so we ignore the end of lev 26. We ignore the prophesies that sai God will restor them, and never forget his promise to their fathers? We ignore what paul said in romans 11. and Jesus himself said in Luke 21: 24.
Sorry, But I can not ignore what God said.
The church of God has ALWAYS been jew and gentile together in unity with Christ as the head, it was that way before the law, it was that way during the law. It is that way today, and it will be that way till the end of time as we know it.
But that does not negate or replace the promise of God to a nation of people.
2. God said even after they broke their covenant with him, he would never destroy them.
3. God promised even after this, he would still remember his covenant made with the fathers.
All these things I showed in my post. so not sure what is in question here.
Excellent post. But i think you forgot how it ended. a promise God made to them EVEN after they suffered total defeat, total destruction of their city because of their unfaithfulness.
40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.’” If this is no longer in effect. then Gods covenant as confirmed in lev 26 was a lie. and God never intended to keep it in the first place.
so we ignore the end of lev 26. We ignore the prophesies that sai God will restor them, and never forget his promise to their fathers? We ignore what paul said in romans 11. and Jesus himself said in Luke 21: 24.
Sorry, But I can not ignore what God said.
The church of God has ALWAYS been jew and gentile together in unity with Christ as the head, it was that way before the law, it was that way during the law. It is that way today, and it will be that way till the end of time as we know it.
But that does not negate or replace the promise of God to a nation of people.
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Leviticus 26 (read carefully)[/FONT]
44 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;[/FONT]
for I am the Lord their God.
Natural Jews who were scattered are not forgotten, because the GOSPEL is for them too!!!
44 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;[/FONT]
for I am the Lord their God.
Natural Jews who were scattered are not forgotten, because the GOSPEL is for them too!!!