"replacement theology" - what is it?

[ZEEK]

Maybe you personally don't believe that they don't have 'much credibility' ZEEK, but do you
have enough discernment to understand that they Love their Lord and Master and are on
their own individual journey, just as you are?

may Jesus be our judge, amen..

I don't really see your point oldethenew.

If you come on a Forum and make statements, remarks, judgements of others, (maybe even quite bold judgements) etc , and then go mute when someone asks you a question, you basically look pretty stupid, just as you would do if you did the same in a Church, or any other environment.

I don't take kindly to you trying to turn this into my problem.

 

[ZEEK]

Of course I understand that they are on their own journey. That is nothing to do with 'discernment' as you put it, that goes with the territory. They are professing Christians.

Do you have the discernment to recognize that this is a forum, where people discuss, debate and reason about doctrine, and that while we all may make mistakes, throw out errors, speak out of passion, misplaced loyalties, or whatever, that for any discussion to be meaningful, the other side needs to respond?

 

[tanakh]

The true Israel according to Paul is Spiritual not Physical. It consists of all those who have the faith of Abraham whether they are Jews or Gentiles. Christ has only one body not two. He has one Bride not two. The Gospel message is that people are saved through faith in Christ and his sacrifice for sin. Nowhere does it say that there is a get out clause if you happen to be physically Jewish. Israel was chosen to be a nation of Priests. They were supposed to be a light to the Gentiles. Up until the time of Christ they failed miserably and details of that failure take up the most of the OT. Jesus is the embodiment of Israel. Gods promise to Abraham was to his seed not seeds. Jesus is the seed of Abraham. In Matthew there is a quote about him ''Out of Egypt I have called my Son'' If you check it out it refers to Israel. It was only when I realised that Jesus and Israel are one that this quotation made sense. Jesus and his disciples were physically Jews. They fulfilled Gods commandment to Israel. In Deuteronomy God through Moses warns Israel. He says that the nation would be blessed if they obey his commandments and cursed if they dont. If you read the curses you will see clearly that what was said came true in history. This is the one reason I cant believe that the nation created in 1948 exists for Gods blessing.

 

[ZEEK]

Yes. The Abrahamic Covenant is very straightforward.

Very very straightforward. God has his side of the bargain, and the People Of Abraham, the People Of Faith, had theirs:

Genesis 17 1 “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and you"

That is all there is to it. Faith and obedience.
Nothing has changed really.

Really and truly that is the Church Covenant.

 

[zone]

Galatians 4

21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.

24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants.

One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

This isn't a replacement. Hagar's son was never Gods chosen.

I know you've never actually read the above passage.
God is using the allegorical names of sarah and hagar to TEACH the jews and gentiles that the OLD COVENANT [which] is Hagar. that the Israelits were slaves of the old covenant, in bondage.

paul said to cast out those in Hagar....that they will NOT inherit....the old covenant was REPLACED by the NEW.
please read it until you see it has zero to do with Ishmael.
and that Christians are Sarah (set free in Christ with new Jerusalem in mind)

 

[zone]

2.2 A Distinction Between Israel and the Church

Dispensationalists believe that God has two separate but parallel means of working - one through the Church, the other through Israel (the former being a parenthesis to the latter).[[6]] Thus there is, and always will remain, a distinction, 'between Israel, the Gentiles and the Church.'[[7]] Darby was not the first to insist on a radical distinction between Israel and the Church.

Marcion stressed the radical nature of Christianity vis-a-vis Judaism. In his theology there existed a total discontinuity between the OT and the NT, between Israel and the church, and even between the god of the OT and the Father of Jesus.[[8]]

It was, however, Darby who first insisted that: ‘The Jewish nation is never to enter the Church

.’[[9]] Scofield developed this idea further:

Comparing then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, we find that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct and future destiny, all is contrast.[[10]]

.....

Christian Zionism: Dispensationalism And The Roots Of Sectarian Theology
A History of Dispensational Approaches
By Rev. Steven Sizer

Christian Zionism: Dispensationalism And The Roots Of Sectarian Theology

 

[plainguy]

There is no such thing as replacement theology in the true sense of the gospel. Today's true believers (Jew or Gentile ..Christ's bride) is/are a continuation of His true Israel in the OT. "Replacement theology" is a fabricated term for those seeking an earthly/physical Jerusalem. Believers look for a heavenly Jerusalem who's founder and builder is God.[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Hebrews 12:22 ​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, ​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

John 5:45-47

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

 

[garee]

We were saved through making a choice.... but they are ALL going to be saved (forced into Salvation) no matter how they see Jesus?

Was Abel a Jew, he became a new creature as God purified is heart by a work of Christ faith? After all we did not chose Him He chose us the same as a Jew. No difference, nothing was replaced salvation was added.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith

 

[garee]

We are in the times of the Gentiles. We are in the church age. Israel has been blinded at least in part. Is God done with Israel? Will God fulfill His promises to Israel?

The bride age which some call the church age began when God purified the heart of Able by a work of Christ’s faith,
having favor on Abel a member of the bride of Christ as one of the many lively stones that makes up the spiritual house of God.. The reformation has come. The need for shadows that spoke of the suffering of Christ are no longer needed.

At the first century refomation Christ cut off the need for shadows.The veil is rent.
Christ said Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever.

How long is henceforward forever?

And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! Mat 21:19

 

[plainguy]

It is heretical to teach that the church has replaced Israel. The church has received the blessing promised to Israel but God will bring Israel back as He has done before. The tribulation will be the last chastisement for Israel afterwards she will receive the blessings promised to her.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So the following must not be true for today's nation of Israel then ? Not just yet, anyways ? Tell me ? Why would "the church" receive the blessing promised to Israel if she were not Israel ?

2 Corinthians; 6:2

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

​

For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, .. now is the day of salvation.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

 

[kaylagrl]

Well you can do, but then you have veered off course because that is the Mosaic Covenant, and that was added because of transgressions, and was made with Israel, not the Jews. (These facts are available in a plethora of different translations)

The Abrahamic Covenant is described in Genesis 17. It is related to the Promises, but the two are quite separate matters.

I am afraid unless people like Kayla and PennEd can substantiate what they are referring too, or at least address the questions, then I don't really feel they have much credibility.

You
dont think I have credibility? lol Listen this subject has been done to death. Whatever I present to prove my point you'll say ya but. And you'll ya but until the thread gets closed from heated arguments. Ya but,Im right. So whats the point if you'll just keep interrupting with ya buts?

 

[notuptome]

So the following must not be true for today's nation of Israel then ? Not just yet, anyways ? Tell me ? Why would "the church" receive the blessing promised to Israel if she were not Israel ?

2 Corinthians; 6:2

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

​

For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, .. now is the day of salvation.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

They cried let His blood be upon us and our children.

Mt 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.


Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KJV1611]

You
dont think I have credibility? lol Listen this subject has been done to death. Whatever I present to prove my point you'll say ya but. And you'll ya but until the thread gets closed from heated arguments. Ya but,Im right. So whats the point if you'll just keep interrupting with ya buts?

Why do you believe fleshly Israel gets the promises made to Christ?

 

[kaylagrl]

Why do you believe fleshly Israel gets the promises made to Christ?

Ohhhh
boy! As I stated above I have waded into this subject too often. I dont have the time right now but I may put on my hip waders later and jump into the fray.smh I am one sucker for punishment.

 

[notuptome]

Why do you believe fleshly Israel gets the promises made to Christ?

Because Jehovah as He has done in time past will take rebellious and stiff-necked Israel and through chastisement will bring them to Christ. They will look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn. The tribulation will be upon Israel to bring them back to God. The whole world will be involved but it is Israel that will receive correction and will see their Messiah descending from the clouds and recognize Him and be saved.

As the Gentile church we need to get over ourselves. Israel will be blessed and we will rejoice in Jehovah blessing them. If not you may not be part of the church. Self examination time you know.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

Yes. The Abrahamic Covenant is very straightforward.

Very very straightforward. God has his side of the bargain, and the People Of Abraham, the People Of Faith, had theirs:

Genesis 17 1 “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and you"

That is all there is to it. Faith and obedience.
Nothing has changed really.

Really and truly that is the Church Covenant.

Faith in respect to Abraham?

 

[ZEEK]

The Abrahamic Covenant required simply for people to walk before God and be blameless.

 

[Bladerunner]

2.2 A Distinction Between Israel and the Church

Dispensationalists believe that God has two separate but parallel means of working - one through the Church, the other through Israel (the former being a parenthesis to the latter).[[6]] Thus there is, and always will remain, a distinction, 'between Israel, the Gentiles and the Church.'[[7]] Darby was not the first to insist on a radical distinction between Israel and the Church.

Marcion stressed the radical nature of Christianity vis-a-vis Judaism. In his theology there existed a total discontinuity between the OT and the NT, between Israel and the church, and even between the god of the OT and the Father of Jesus.[[8]]

It was, however, Darby who first insisted that: ‘The Jewish nation is never to enter the Church

.’[[9]] Scofield developed this idea further:

Comparing then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, we find that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct and future destiny, all is contrast.[[10]]

.....

Christian Zionism: Dispensationalism And The Roots Of Sectarian Theology
A History of Dispensational Approaches
By Rev. Steven Sizer

Christian Zionism: Dispensationalism And The Roots Of Sectarian Theology

The Nation of Israel will not be in the 'Church' simply because the 'Church' is comprise of individuals only. There will be jewish people who believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

And No, the New Jerusalem will not be in Missouri.

 

[garee]

The Abrahamic Covenant required simply for people to walk before God and be blameless.

To have that Covenant in respect to Abraham is where the unbelieving (no faith) Jews erred. Abraham was used as a shadow or type to represent our Father in heaven not seen, as the Father of many nations ,giving meaning to the word Abraham.

They I would offer turned the covenant of God, as the perfect/complete law of God into a covenant of men ,as a law of men called "the law of the fathers" .That kind of covenant is made up of the oral tradition of the fathers.Therefore I believe making the things of men equal to rising above the authority of God's word. The same as with the Catholics today.The scriptures of themselves have no authority by which we could believe God. they insist as a foundation men must teach us They look to the faith of men as the measure of faith which God calls "no faith" in respect to a froward generation, the generation of Adam.

I offer two verses in a hope they could support my opinion..

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

The other as one of the think not warnings.

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.Mat 3:7

I think those Jews performed that kind of faith so that they can measure their faith according to the traditions of the fathers , rather than the faith of that of our Father in heaven not seen. In the end making the scriptures as in; all things written in the law and the prophets , making it without effect.

When challenged by the our Father in heaven who spoke through Jesus the Word of God when asked for their fathers to produce fruit in respect to true repentance. Christ offers one of the think not commandments that those kind of fathers refused to abide in God and not men .

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Having Abraham as the Father of all spirits, usurps the true authority of our Father in heaven. In that way we are to call no man father on earth for one is our spiritual father .

Christ in effect I believe was saying He could rise up lively stones in order to continual build the spiritual house of God ,the church ,His bride. Therefore making the law of the fathers to no effect rather than the perfect law of God which does quicken our souls in order to give us simply ones His understanding. Being a perfect law and not just another philosophy of men as a theory.

I believe it is shown in a verse in the old testament that I would offer helps us reconcile His Grace as a Law not subject to change, and not just another theory of men. I believe God graciously reveals to us in the Psalms bringing us comfort and a new spirit that we might say Abba Father, as His Spirit does witness to our new spirit that we are His children .He has not left us as orphans.

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD "is perfect," converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD "is sure", making wise the simple.

 

[Grandpa]

The Nation of Israel will not be in the 'Church' simply because the 'Church' is comprise of individuals only. There will be jewish people who believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

And No, the New Jerusalem will not be in Missouri.

Are you thinking probably Oklahoma?