"replacement theology" - what is it?

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Yep, In this manner.

Israel will be blind in part UNTIL....

1. It will not happen until "the fullness of the gentile" has occured (it is yet a future event)
2. It will happen when the deliverer comes out of zion and TURNS AWAY THE UNGODLINESS for Jacob (also known as Israel)
3. God has a covenant with THEM (Israel) to TAKE AWAY THEIR SIN (remove their blindness)

At that time, ALL ISREAL WILL BE SAVED (remember this is a future event, So you can not use Jesus ALREADY PAST death on the cross as fulfilment)

Until then

They (Israel) are your enemy concerning the gospel. but beloved concerning the election.



Thats why I said, You can not say it was not taught, Even if you disagree with me, You can not say it is not taught, You can only at best say, You disagree it is taught..
I do not know which translation you are reading but I do not have it so in mine.

Israel will be blind in part UNTIL the fullness of Gentiles come in.
Thus all Israel will be saved (all elected Gentiles plus elected Jews).

This way it is in mine. I have no verses in mine saying that when the fullness of Gentiles will come in, something will happen after that.

You are trying to see something in the text what is not there.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Lets' discuss Romans 9:6... here's my take on it. The word of God was preached to flesh Israel and it wasn't effective on ALL of flesh Israel. Why? Because all of Israel (flesh descendants) are not Israel (true Israel). What is your take on this verse?

Romans 9:6 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
My take is what is the discussion at the time of writing.

Has God made a mistake choosing Israel..

As paul said, Israel was chosen by God, To them were given the adoption, The glory, the covenants, The Law, The services of God, the promises, and through whom Christ in the flesh came.

Yet they rejected God are apposed to their messiah, Crucified their messiah, and want nothing to do with Christianity.

Christianity is in reality a Jewish religion, It has the jewish torah, The jewish Laws, The Jewish Messiah, And to the gentile, You want me to follow this new religion that even the people to whome it come from reject? Thats a little hard to take for most people who had to question it.

So paul spends 3 chapters explaining all the questions posed. And even answered some responses to some of th ejewish argument also.

for example.

A jew would say, We were chosen because of fathers were righteous.

Pauls response.

God chose them not because their fathers were righteous. He chose them before they were even born for it is said, two children, who had not even been born, before they DID ANY GOOD OR EVIL, that the purpose of ELECTION might stand, not because of works, but of him who calls. "the older shall serve the younger" as it is written "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated"

Both quotes were taken from OT, one concerning the birth of two nations (Jacob and Esau) saying how the older will serve the younger (the older CHILD never served the younger, the Nation of edom did)

The other, written long after both CHILDREN had long since died, About a nation God loved, and a nation God did not love as much (hated)

the rest of the chapters continue in this context. to answer questions.

ie, I look at it from a historical perspective, Who it was written to.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I do not know which translation you are reading but I do not have it so in mine.

Israel will be blind in part UNTIL the fullness of Gentiles come in.
Thus all Israel will be saved (all elected Gentiles plus elected Jews).

This way it is in mine. I have no verses in mine saying that when the fullness of Gentiles will come in, something will happen after that.

You are trying to see something in the text what is not there.
Maybe I am just trying to make a literal approach.

1, Isreal is blind n part UNTIL the fullness of the gentile has come in. (which means, once this occurs, the partial blindness of Israel will be completed. and will be no more.
(This is the when)..

2. Thus, In this manner..(this is the how).

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins."

ie, This is how the blindness will be removed, when the fullness of the gentile has come in, He did not say he will just take away their sin, That occured on th ecross. He also said he would TURN THE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB (they would repent)

"All isreal will be saved"
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
First question, what is the yoke between Jacob and Esua. Second question, when was the yoke between Jacob and Esau broken? I'm traveling today and will be away for a bit.
what does that have to do with Jeremiah 30. Esau is not even mentioned. I do not understand your question

Be safe in your travels
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The bible clearly says that ALL that happened "in that day". Why is it you try to use some verses that you don't understand to UNDO what was already given to you in EASY to understand language? Simple rule - stick with what you know and THEN move into the more complicated stuff... they will NEVER contradict.

it does?

Where in the bible or even himan history did jerusaelm repent?

I mean think about it, GOD DESTROYED THE CITY IN 70 AD because they did not repent. and you want me to believe THEY DID REPENT?

I do not understand, Your saying stick with stuff so they do not contradict, Yet you make a contradiction in your very post. Saying Jerusalem repented. When God destroyed it 4 decades later.. That my friend is a HUGE contradiction.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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Maybe I am just trying to make a literal approach.

1, Isreal is blind n part UNTIL the fullness of the gentile has come in. (which means, once this occurs, the partial blindness of Israel will be completed. and will be no more.
(This is the when)..
Until does not have to mean that something will change after.

"I will love the lord until my death" does not mean I will not love Him after.

Israel will be hardened in part until all Gentiles come in does not have to mean something will change after. It is just a statement, that Israel will be hardened for all the time.

So it does not mean that "then the blindness will be no more" and that there will be some time without it after.

2. Thus, In this manner..(this is the how).

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins."

ie, This is how the blindness will be removed, when the fullness of the gentile has come in, He did not say he will just take away their sin, That occured on th ecross. He also said he would TURN THE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB (they would repent)

"All isreal will be saved"
But when? Not "after", because it is not in the text.

a) He is removing the ungodliness from Jacob (for the elected ones from Israel) for 2000 years now.

b) Or the prophecy can be taken spiritually about the church. Both views are possible I think.
 
Dec 13, 2016
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You are confusing Israel and Judah EG

My take is what is the discussion at the time of writing.

Has God made a mistake choosing Israel..

As paul said, Israel was chosen by God, To them were given the adoption, The glory, the covenants, The Law, The services of God, the promises, and through whom Christ in the flesh came.

Yet they rejected God are apposed to their messiah, Crucified their messiah, and want nothing to do with Christianity.

Christianity is in reality a Jewish religion, It has the jewish torah, The jewish Laws, The Jewish Messiah, And to the gentile, You want me to follow this new religion that even the people to whome it come from reject? Thats a little hard to take for most people who had to question it.

So paul spends 3 chapters explaining all the questions posed. And even answered some responses to some of th ejewish argument also.

for example.

A jew would say, We were chosen because of fathers were righteous.

Pauls response.

God chose them not because their fathers were righteous. He chose them before they were even born for it is said, two children, who had not even been born, before they DID ANY GOOD OR EVIL, that the purpose of ELECTION might stand, not because of works, but of him who calls. "the older shall serve the younger" as it is written "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated"

Both quotes were taken from OT, one concerning the birth of two nations (Jacob and Esau) saying how the older will serve the younger (the older CHILD never served the younger, the Nation of edom did)

The other, written long after both CHILDREN had long since died, About a nation God loved, and a nation God did not love as much (hated)

the rest of the chapters continue in this context. to answer questions.

ie, I look at it from a historical perspective, Who it was written to.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Until does not have to mean that something will change after.

"I will love the lord until my death" does not mean I will not love Him after.

Israel will be hardened in part until all Gentiles come in does not have to mean something will change after. It is just a statement, that Israel will be hardened for all the time.

So it does not mean that "then the blindness will be no more" and that there will be some time without it after.

Thats a stretch, There is no reason to even mention the thing about the "fullness of the gentile" then, that would be like saying something for no reason.


Not to mention, It is not just taken alone, it is taken with the rest of the passage, and many many OT prophecies concernign this "time" which state Isreal will then repent. and be restored.


But when? Not "after", because it is not in the text.
I never said it was in the text. Did you even read what I said.

I said When

Then I said HOW

At no point did I say after.


a) He is removing the ungodliness from Jacob (for the elected ones from Israel) for 2000 years now.


b) Or the prophecy can be taken spiritually about the church. Both views are possible I think.
Well thats your view, I disagre

The OT prophets speak of a particular time when Isreal will repent and be restored. It says this time will occure after the time of the gentiles has been completed (the fullness of the gentile kingdoms) and at that time the deliver will come and turn jacob from her godliness.

I do nto see it as an event which happens over centuries, it is an event which occures at a particular TIME

the church is not jacob. SO no, you can not say it is replacement, that is replacement theology.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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As far as I can recall I have never fully stated my beliefs concerning the Last Days and second coming so I am going to stick my neck out and agree with them or not here goes.

I believe in one second coming. The clue is in the expression That coming will be literal not spiritual I leave that belief to the JWs. I believe the world situation will get progressivly worse until it reaches stage when when what we call the Great tribulation will come about. Shadows and types of that tribulation have happened throughout history and some are recorded in the Bible because God is in control of what happens here. Satan cannot do anything without God allowing him to do it. We have no idea at present how soon the Great Tribulation will start.

World events have an irritating habit of changing quite rapidly. An example is that prior to 1989 most people thought the USSR and the Cold War would go on forever then came Gorbachev. Sooner or later the ultimate Antichrist will appear. As John recorded there has been many but this one will be the genuine article. The best descriptions of the Antichrist and his
ways can be found outside the Bible in the book of Maccabees (Antiochus Epiphanes) and the works of Josephas (Titus). To be accepted as the Messiah I believe he is or will appear to be Jewish, because only a Jewish Messiah would be allowed to build a Temple according to orthodox Jewish belief. The Temple he has built doesn't have to be a huge building. Moses managed with a tent.

I believe that Modern Israels only reason for existence is for Gods Judgement. Why else would a mainly secular Christ rejecting society be there? Having said that I also believe that a remnant will be saved but I will come back to that.

Babylon the Great is a world system based on trade and Religion. It is headed by whatever dominant world power is running the show when the tribulation happens. If it happens now the USA fits the bill, otherwise its anyone's guess.

Revelation relies heavily on OT types and Symbols. To understand it properly a person needs to be immersed in the OT
I do not believe it is all set out in chronological order but in the order in which John received the visions that make up the bulk of the book. It was given to the seven churches to comfort those suffering intense persecution, urging them to be overcomers and promising rewards to those who do and warnings to those who don't. It is a message for Christians throughout history not just for the last days.

I believe that Christ will return at the end of the tribulation period with hosts of Angels. The dead will be raised and the living will be immortalized. Both living and dead will meet him in the air. He will arrive with them on the Mount of Olives and defeat Antichrist and his armies surrounding Jerusalem in a vain attempt to prevent his return. This will be the battle of Armageddon. It will also be when a remnant of Jews will ''look upon him who they pierced and mourn as for an only Son''

After this Christ and the saints will reign during the Millennium. Whether this is for a literal Thousand years I am not certain
but after a final rebellion a new Heaven and Earth will be created.

That, all for now
 
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My take is what is the discussion at the time of writing.

Has God made a mistake choosing Israel..

As paul said, Israel was chosen by God, To them were given the adoption, The glory, the covenants, The Law, The services of God, the promises, and through whom Christ in the flesh came.

Yet they rejected God are apposed to their messiah, Crucified their messiah, and want nothing to do with Christianity.

Christianity is in reality a Jewish religion, It has the jewish torah, The jewish Laws, The Jewish Messiah, And to the gentile, You want me to follow this new religion that even the people to whome it come from reject? Thats a little hard to take for most people who had to question it.

So paul spends 3 chapters explaining all the questions posed. And even answered some responses to some of th ejewish argument also.

for example.

A jew would say, We were chosen because of fathers were righteous.

Pauls response.

God chose them not because their fathers were righteous. He chose them before they were even born for it is said, two children, who had not even been born, before they DID ANY GOOD OR EVIL, that the purpose of ELECTION might stand, not because of works, but of him who calls. "the older shall serve the younger" as it is written "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated"

Both quotes were taken from OT, one concerning the birth of two nations (Jacob and Esau) saying how the older will serve the younger (the older CHILD never served the younger, the Nation of edom did)

The other, written long after both CHILDREN had long since died, About a nation God loved, and a nation God did not love as much (hated)

the rest of the chapters continue in this context. to answer questions.

ie, I look at it from a historical perspective, Who it was written to.
Ok, what about this part - Romans 9:7-8? Specifically the children of the flesh are not the children of God but the children of the promise are the children of God. How does this relate to "they are not all of Israel, which are of Israel". Is there are a relationship between the two?

Romans 9:7-8 KJV
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Until does not have to mean that something will change after.

"I will love the lord until my death" does not mean I will not love Him after.

Israel will be hardened in part until all Gentiles come in does not have to mean something will change after. It is just a statement, that Israel will be hardened for all the time.

So it does not mean that "then the blindness will be no more" and that there will be some time without it after.



But when? Not "after", because it is not in the text.

a) He is removing the ungodliness from Jacob (for the elected ones from Israel) for 2000 years now.

b) Or the prophecy can be taken spiritually about the church. Both views are possible I think.
"Until does not have to mean that something will change after." Amen! We can't add to or take away from what is written.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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what does that have to do with Jeremiah 30. Esau is not even mentioned. I do not understand your question

Be safe in your travels
It has everything to do with Jeremiah 30. The yoke is broken AT the time of Jacob's trouble. You're using the breaking of the yoke to prove the day of the Lord HASN'T happend yet. See your post below. So I'm asking you when was/will the yoke between Esau and Jacob be broken. That will tell you when the time of Jacob's trouble was.

I'm just starting with this one, I plan to discuss all the arguments you made for future fulfillment of the day of the Lord.

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull


No, You don't. Because you have Jacobs trouble happening, and then Israel never repenting (which was the PURPOSE for God to cause this tribulation on Jacob)


Jer 30: Ask now, and see,
Whether a man is ever in labor with child?
So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,

But he shall be saved out of it.
‘For it shall come to pass in that day,
Says the Lord of hosts,
That
I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;

Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,

Whom I will raise up for them. [SUP]10 [/SUP]‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.

Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.


Non of those things have yet happened. So it could not have been fulfilled.
 
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Matthew 24:21 KJV
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I just learned this on my trip. The time of GREAT tribulation such as was not since the beginning and never ever will be seen again was the time of Jacob's trouble in AD 70. There were supernatural forces involved in that attack... read the book of Joel for details.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,938
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Yep... Just as the Bible said, the whole world will be against Israel. Don't be a part of the hate that comes from the evil one.
Love the Jews. Preach the Gospel to them, and pray they accept it. Let God do the correcting. That's not our calling.
[h=1]Israel's Netanyahu calls on US to veto UN's anti-settlement resolution[/h][FONT=&quot]Published December 22, 2016 [FONT=&quot] FoxNews.com
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Facebook Twitter Email Print

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]This March 14, 2011 file photo shows a general view of a construction site in the West Bank Jewish settlement of Modiin Illit. (AP/Oded Balilty, File)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu urged the U.S. Wednesday to use its veto power to block a United Nations resolution demanding a halt to Israeli settlement activities in Palestinian territory and declares that all existing settlements "have no legal validity" and are "a flagrant violation" of international law.

Follow

Benjamin Netanyahu
@netanyahu


The US should veto the anti-Israel resolution at the UN Security Council on Thursday.
8:28 PM - 21 Dec 2016









[FONT=&quot]The draft resolution, circulated by Egypt, also stresses that "the cessation of all Israeli settlement activities is essential for salvaging the two-state solution" which would see Israelis and Palestinians living side-by-side in peace.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The U.S. vetoed a similar resolution in 2011, but it was not immediately clear how U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power would vote Thursday. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The U.N. Security Council has scheduled a 3 p.m. ET meeting to vote on the resolution. The U.S., along with China, France, Great Britain and Russia, is one of five permanent Security Council members with the power to kill any resolution.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Israel's U.N. Ambassador Danny Danon said the resolution "will do nothing to promote a diplomatic process, and will only reward the Palestinian policy of incitement and terror."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"We expect our greatest ally not to allow this one-sided and anti-Israel resolution to be adopted by the council," he said.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Riyad Mansour, the Palestinian U.N. ambassador, has said a cessation of all Israeli settlement activities and an end to its nearly 50-year occupation of Palestinian territory are necessary for a comprehensive peace agreement. Netanyahu has rejected those terms, saying negotiations should take place without conditions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In September, the international diplomatic "quartet" of Mideast peacemakers called for Israel and the Palestinians to take steps to resume stalled peace talks.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But the gaps between Israeli and Palestinian leaders remain wide, preventing any meaningful talks since 2009.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The draft resolution calls for intensified and accelerated international and regional diplomatic efforts "aimed at achieving, without delay a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]New Zealand, a non-permanent council member, has been pushing a separate resolution that would set out the parameters of a peace settlement.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Fox News' Jonathan Wachtel and the Associated Press contributed to this report.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Yep... Just as the Bible said, the whole world will be against Israel. Don't be a part of the hate that comes from the evil one.
Love the Jews. Preach the Gospel to them, and pray they accept it. Let God do the correcting. That's not our calling.
Israel's Netanyahu calls on US to veto UN's anti-settlement resolution

Published December 22, 2016 FoxNews.com


Facebook Twitter Email Print


This March 14, 2011 file photo shows a general view of a construction site in the West Bank Jewish settlement of Modiin Illit. (AP/Oded Balilty, File)


Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu urged the U.S. Wednesday to use its veto power to block a United Nations resolution demanding a halt to Israeli settlement activities in Palestinian territory and declares that all existing settlements "have no legal validity" and are "a flagrant violation" of international law.

Follow

Benjamin Netanyahu
@netanyahu


The US should veto the anti-Israel resolution at the UN Security Council on Thursday.
8:28 PM - 21 Dec 2016









The draft resolution, circulated by Egypt, also stresses that "the cessation of all Israeli settlement activities is essential for salvaging the two-state solution" which would see Israelis and Palestinians living side-by-side in peace.
The U.S. vetoed a similar resolution in 2011, but it was not immediately clear how U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power would vote Thursday.
The U.N. Security Council has scheduled a 3 p.m. ET meeting to vote on the resolution. The U.S., along with China, France, Great Britain and Russia, is one of five permanent Security Council members with the power to kill any resolution.
Israel's U.N. Ambassador Danny Danon said the resolution "will do nothing to promote a diplomatic process, and will only reward the Palestinian policy of incitement and terror."
"We expect our greatest ally not to allow this one-sided and anti-Israel resolution to be adopted by the council," he said.
Riyad Mansour, the Palestinian U.N. ambassador, has said a cessation of all Israeli settlement activities and an end to its nearly 50-year occupation of Palestinian territory are necessary for a comprehensive peace agreement. Netanyahu has rejected those terms, saying negotiations should take place without conditions.
In September, the international diplomatic "quartet" of Mideast peacemakers called for Israel and the Palestinians to take steps to resume stalled peace talks.
But the gaps between Israeli and Palestinian leaders remain wide, preventing any meaningful talks since 2009.
The draft resolution calls for intensified and accelerated international and regional diplomatic efforts "aimed at achieving, without delay a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East."
New Zealand, a non-permanent council member, has been pushing a separate resolution that would set out the parameters of a peace settlement.
Fox News' Jonathan Wachtel and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

Oh yeah woohoo... let's make sure Israel totally desimates and desroys the rest of those poor Palestinian Christians. Or are there any Palestinian Christians left? This crap DISGUSTS me!
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Here's an interesting fact about the Rupert Murdoch Zionist media outlet called 666 NEWS aka FOXNEWS. Off and Fox are the only two words in the English language that in numerology adds up to 666. 666 NEWS (because that's what it really means) is the propaganda machine for the Zionist.

I know, this has nothing to do with this subject... just had to vent over that last post.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Also which Jerusalem was he talking about, earthly Jerusalem aka Sodom (where our Lord was crucified) or heavenly Jerusalem the mother of us all?
Thanks.I enjoy the way you write, must of paid attention in school.

My two cents, looking at that from another perspective. Sorry about the rambling and poor grammar.. I hope it make some sense.

I would suggest the heavenly Jerusalem also called the “married land”. She is the segregate mother of us all . Not the corrupted earthly Jerusalem. It will vanish on the last day, the second resurrection.

Our hearts are not on the earthly corrupted Jerusalem.

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: Matthew 6:19

I think because when Christ, the Holy Spirit of God spoke without parables he spoke not hiding the spiritual the understanding from the believer . Therefore we should expect while we are given accurate historical event, along with it we are to search as for silver or Gold the spiritual understanding that is found in those events. Again seeing Christ, is the eternal word of God He spoke not without giving us His understanding.

When it comes to phrase like the “mother of us all" from my experience many ignore the spiritual meaning ...again hid from the lost. That parable the mother of us all as to a ongoing theme can be seen in the verse that speaks of "the trouble of Jacob" as well as others verses that support the conclusion..

Some miss out on the spiritual understanding being confused what to do with the parables.. It become who is the greatest mentality, as men look to other men outwardly to have their faith in respect to.Possibly in fear of that the Holy Spirit cannot guide them. Or if they error they could be called false teachers .

The apostles faced that dilemma of "who is the greatest" frequently because they did not understanding the spiritual meaning which Christ hid from them.

The verse below speaks of Jacobs trouble .

Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Ask, I pray you, and see, is a male bringing forth? Wherefore have I seen every man, His hands on his loins, as a travailing woman, And all faces have been turned to paleness? 7 Wo! for great [is] that day, without any like it, Yea, a time of “adversity it [is] to Jacob”, Yet out of it he is saved. Jer 30:6

That same theme (the mother of us all ) continues.

At that time, saith Jehovah, will I be the God ofall the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:1)


I think we should ask ourselves. Were they not already the people of God? Yes. Then why does God say that they will be His people in the future, “at that time”? Because they were His people according to the Old Covenant, and they have broken that Covenant, as we read in the same chapter God had divorced them. Equating backsliding with divorce the death of a relationship.

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

While at that time it signals looking again at Jeremiah 31 the time of trouble of Jacob represents ,the last days beginning with the renting of the veil to indicate Christ has come in the flesh.

It is the time of the first century reformation the shadows and types that spoke of the suffering of Christ before hand and the glory that followed in respect to an outward Jew have ended. The carnal ceremonial laws came to an end. Our husband Christ had come. The government of God was restored to a previous time before Israel had an outward representation. It was a tribulation for the Jews like none before and will never occur again, losing their outward identity that was used in parables.

The theme “the mother of us all “continues to help us find the spiritual understandings hid from the lost in the next chapter.
There he uses daughters to describe backing sliding divorced Israel in respect to an outward Jew. (not born again)

Jer 31:22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man

Isiah 62 speaks of the time of Jacobs trouble, using Zion to represent the mother of us all in lieu of the first century reformation. The new name mentioned there is the name He renamed His people in Acts which God named Christian. She is the bride of Christ as the segregate mother of us all

For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. Isa 62:1-5


02657 Chephtsiy bahh {khef-tsee'baw}

from 02656 with suffixes;; n pr f
AV - Hephzibah 2; 2
Hephzi-bah = "my delight is in her" 1) the queen of King Hezekiah and mother of Manasseh 2) a name for Jesusalem (fig.)

01166 ba`al {baw-al'}

a primitive root; TWOT - 262; v
AV - marry 8, husband 3, dominion 2, wife 1, married wife 1, Beulah 1; 16
1) to marry, rule over, possess, own 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to marry, be lord (husband) over 1a2) to rule over 1b) (Niphal) to be married
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Oh yeah woohoo... let's make sure Israel totally desimates and desroys the rest of those poor Palestinian Christians. Or are there any Palestinian Christians left? This crap DISGUSTS me!
its because they're hoping for a "peace treaty" with "Israel" by some antichrist nation(s)/man - the perversion of Dan 9
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Good stuff Garee and I'm SO GLAD you can see those things. The man travailing in birth is - the Apostle Paul and eveyone else who preaches the gospel.

Galatians 4:19 KJV
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

It is so obvious to me and I think you also, that jeremiah 30 is talking about the first coming of Christ. A man giving birth is the way God hides his truth from the world and reveals it to his children.

Not much time here but I wanted to say that heavenly Jerusalem is the body of Christ HERE ON EARTH. Jerusalem descending from heaven in Revelation is the body of Christ AFTER THE RAPTURE.

Thank you for your kind words also.:)