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Thread: Calvinism - Another Heresy

  1. #101
    Senior Member Desdichado's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Yeah, screaming "heretic" is not exactly the best way to start the conversation off on the right foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    I think you are the one with the problem. You come in here blasting a valid soteriological perspective, one that has survived 400 years. Oh right, actually a major movement of the early Protestant Church, after Luther!

    You present no evidence that you even know what Calvinism is about. Then you blast Abigail.

    Now, Abigail and I do not always see eye to eye on theology, but she is pretty rational. And SHE has been on this forum a lot longer than I have, in one form or another, since 2008. Not some Johnny come lately person like you!

    I am not a Calvinist, but I do lean towards Reformed doctrine. In fact, the more Reformed doctrine I read, the more I lean that way. The more I read my Bible, the more I lean that way. So call me a Reformed Baptist!

    I think you need to show a little more respect in this forum. If you disagree with a Biblical viewpoint, the better option would be to post what you believe, rather than come up with all these false rumours about what Calvinism is, when everything you say is either trying to slander people, or presenting half truths and lies.

    And a little more respect for Abigail, please! She is a long time member of this forum. You are not! Try proving your credibility, before you go on the attack. Because right now, you have zero credibility with me, or most people, from what I have read.
    Nihil novi sub sole.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Spurgeoncy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Utter tripe Angela, take your soapbox somewhere else, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    I think you are the one with the problem. You come in here blasting a valid soteriological perspective, one that has survived 400 years. Oh right, actually a major movement of the early Protestant Church, after Luther!

    You present no evidence that you even know what Calvinism is about. Then you blast Abigail.

    Now, Abigail and I do not always see eye to eye on theology, but she is pretty rational. And SHE has been on this forum a lot longer than I have, in one form or another, since 2008. Not some Johnny come lately person like you!

    I am not a Calvinist, but I do lean towards Reformed doctrine. In fact, the more Reformed doctrine I read, the more I lean that way. The more I read my Bible, the more I lean that way. So call me a Reformed Baptist!

    I think you need to show a little more respect in this forum. If you disagree with a Biblical viewpoint, the better option would be to post what you believe, rather than come up with all these false rumours about what Calvinism is, when everything you say is either trying to slander people, or presenting half truths and lies.

    And a little more respect for Abigail, please! She is a long time member of this forum. You are not! Try proving your credibility, before you go on the attack. Because right now, you have zero credibility with me, or most people, from what I have read.
    laura_charlotte likes this.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Spurgeoncy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by Desdichado View Post
    Yeah, screaming "heretic" is not exactly the best way to start the conversation off on the right foot.
    Ok, go to Theological College and listen to what you want to hear.

  4. #104
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by MollyConnor View Post
    That awkward moment when you don't even know what Calvinism is...

    Calvinism:

    - Having to do with Calvin Klein.

    - Usually something to do with underwear.

    - People debate it a lot.

    - Underwear seems to be both controversial and poorly understood.



    * I stay out of these debates, as I'm not experienced in debating the finer points of underwear... although I will concede it's an important topic.

  5. #105
    Senior Member Spurgeoncy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Calvinism is a doctrine that believes some people are predestined to go to hell....

    there is more of it if you want....
    seed_time_harvest likes this.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Desdichado's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    I'm still waiting for the College of Predestined Heresy to open its doors. We'll invite you as a guest lecturer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeoncy View Post
    Ok, go to Theological College and listen to what you want to hear.
    Nihil novi sub sole.

  7. #107
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    So what level of Calvinism is heretical? Three point, five point or seven point Calvinism?

    It is really difficult to have a constructive discussion when the subject matter is not defined.

    What parts of the TULIP do we agree or disagree with?

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  8. #108
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeoncy View Post
    Calvinism is a doctrine that believes some people are predestined to go to hell....

    there is more of it if you want....
    Well all men are condemned to hell except they repent and receive Christ as Savior.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Angela - with all due respect and with the fact that I love you, I would have to say it was Abigail who started the snarky comments and remarks.

    She took a jibe at the user's name and posted that she couldn't take the OP seriously. Yet she constantly keeps coming back to post more snide comments and remarks on the OP's character.

    Quite a vituperative method of aggression.

    Also, I don't think that just because a person has been a long time member of the forums, they require special deference from other users.
    Credibility on the internet is a personal choice.


    James 1:26

    If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.



  10. #110
    Senior Member Angela53510's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeoncy View Post
    Utter tripe Angela, take your soapbox somewhere else, please.

    Exactly my point! Thanks for proving it!

    You have no credibility here. I do not know which forums you were in to have cultivated such an arrogant attitude, but that is not how we operate here. It is against the rules to slander people, and it will be reported. If you have a point, or a valid argument, please feel free to present it. But attacking people is not allowed.

    Please note:

    This is the Bible Discussion Forum. We discuss the Bible, and often theology with the support of the Bible. We do not blast people we know nothing about.

    So please take YOUR soapbox elsewhere. Your welcome!
    "2 I am going to open my mouth;
    my tongue will form words on my palate.
    3 My words come from my upright heart,
    and my lips speak with sincerity what they know.
    4 The Spirit of God has made me,
    and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
    5 Refute me if you can.
    Prepare your case against me; take your stand.
    6 I am just like you before God" Job 33:2-6

  11. #111
    PinkDiamond
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeoncy View Post
    Well PD, you are the first person

    to discuss the actual OP. Kudos at least for that.

    I think Calvinism is completely wrong, and really an untruth about God's character.

    Why do you think it is a true understanding of scripture?
    Well, let me start this post off by saying that I have opinions on Scripture and Calvinism, but I'm not convinced that I have the true understanding on everything.

    I think this discussion needs as Roger said a more concrete framework. We need to discuss each point of Tulip and see what issues some have with some or all of the points.

    1) Total Depravity
    2) Unconditional Election
    3) Limited Atonement
    4) Irresistible grace
    5) Perseverance of the Saints

    I personally don't really disagree with points 1 and 5. I find that I struggle to accept the other three points.
    I think that if I understood your OP, that you disagree the most with point 2. You view predestination to take away from the fairness of God. I want to make sure we are on the same page before we discuss this further

  12. #112
    Senior Member Spurgeoncy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    What an extraordinary rant. If Calvinism has survived 400 years, I don't think you need to fuss yourself up about my thread then.

    I simply never blasted Abigail, you are a liar Angela.

    The rest of your diatribe is a bit sad. What is your point?

    Who have I tried to slander?

    You need to substantiate these wild allegations...go ahead . Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    I think you are the one with the problem. You come in here blasting a valid soteriological perspective, one that has survived 400 years. Oh right, actually a major movement of the early Protestant Church, after Luther!

    You present no evidence that you even know what Calvinism is about. Then you blast Abigail.

    Now, Abigail and I do not always see eye to eye on theology, but she is pretty rational. And SHE has been on this forum a lot longer than I have, in one form or another, since 2008. Not some Johnny come lately person like you!

    I am not a Calvinist, but I do lean towards Reformed doctrine. In fact, the more Reformed doctrine I read, the more I lean that way. The more I read my Bible, the more I lean that way. So call me a Reformed Baptist!

    I think you need to show a little more respect in this forum. If you disagree with a Biblical viewpoint, the better option would be to post what you believe, rather than come up with all these false rumours about what Calvinism is, when everything you say is either trying to slander people, or presenting half truths and lies.

    And a little more respect for Abigail, please! She is a long time member of this forum. You are not! Try proving your credibility, before you go on the attack. Because right now, you have zero credibility with me, or most people, from what I have read.

  13. #113
    Senior Member phil36's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeoncy View Post
    Calvinism is another great heresy polluting the Church to this very day.

    It is very cranky, but if you ever hear of it, steer clear!!

    It is full of false tenets, probably the worst of which is that some people are predestined to the eternal flames of Hell.

    Generally speaking you are unlikely to find a proponent of this doctrine today, but it still percolates into some people's thinking.

    Ah this old chestnut again!


    Here is an interesting text for Spurgeoncy. Who did what to whom, and who controlled all mens actions???



    Isaiah 10:

    “Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of my anger,
    in whose hand is the club of my wrath!
    6 I send him against a godless nation,

    I dispatch him against a people who anger me,
    to seize loot and snatch plunder,
    and to trample them down like mud in the streets.
    7 But this is not what he intends,
    this is not what he has in mind;
    his purpose is to destroy,
    to put an end to many nations.
    8 ‘Are not my commanders all kings?’ he says.
    9 ‘Has not Kalno fared like Carchemish?
    Is not Hamath like Arpad,
    and Samaria like Damascus?
    10 As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols,
    kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria—
    11 shall I not deal with Jerusalem and her images
    as I dealt with Samaria and her idols?’”


    12 When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, “I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes. 13 For he says:
    “‘By the strength of my hand I have done this,
    and by my wisdom, because I have understanding.

    I removed the boundaries of nations,
    I plundered their treasures;
    like a mighty one I subdued[a] their kings.

    Depleted and notmyown like this.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

  14. #114
    Senior Member Spurgeoncy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    “By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestined to life or death.”
    John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion, 3:21:5


    Personally I think it is sometimes better to cut to the chase.

  15. #115
    Senior Member NarrowRoadDisciple's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    So what level of Calvinism is heretical? Three point, five point or seven point Calvinism?

    It is really difficult to have a constructive discussion when the subject matter is not defined.

    What parts of the TULIP do we agree or disagree with?

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    Every letter of TULIP contradicts scripture in some way....
    Spurgeoncy likes this.
    NarrowRoadDisciple

  16. #116
    Senior Member Spurgeoncy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    You are right NRD, and one can discuss TULIP, but ultimately Calvin concludes that some are predestined to damnation, in which light I feel that discussing TULIP is a bit like rearranging deckchairs.

    And though some people like it and agree with it, to many Christians this is simply heresy. If you disagree, then argue so.

  17. #117
    PinkDiamond
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeoncy View Post
    “By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestined to life or death.”
    John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion, 3:21:5


    Personally I think it is sometimes better to cut to the chase.
    I do not agree with this statement by Calvin. I disagree with the part of the statement that " God determines with himself whatever he wishes to happen with regard to every man." I think God has the right to do as he pleases with any of us. I don't question his sovereignty. I don't see though Calvin's statement in this point supported all throughout Scripture.

    I view predestination by God to be the choice he makes to call or choose the elect based on his foreknowledge. I think of this in this way : he knows the hearts and future choices of men and being all knowing, he selects those that he knows will respond to his influence to be the elect. I see this explanation of predestination to leave room for man's free will.

    However, I'm going to play devil's advocate since this thread needs both perspectives. There is the passage in Romans 9:22-23 that could be read to support Calvin's views
    longtrekker likes this.

  18. #118
    Senior Member laura_charlotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel20 View Post
    I would have to say it was Abigail who started the snarky comments and remarks.

    She took a jibe at the user's name and posted that she couldn't take the OP seriously. Yet she constantly keeps coming back to post more snide comments and remarks on the OP's character.

    Quite a vituperative method of aggression.

    Also, I don't think that just because a person has been a long time member of the forums, they require special deference from other users.
    Credibility on the internet is a personal choice.


    Well said, in total agreement.

  19. #119
    Senior Member phil36's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    John 3:17-19New International Version (NIV)

    17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.



    Why does it say condemned already ...and who is doing the condemning?

    Also see post above Calvinism - Another Heresy #113
    Depleted and notmyown like this.
    Soli Deo Gloria

    "After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" - C H Spurgeon



    • "What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

  20. #120
    Senior Member AbigailZeke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calvinism - Another Heresy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel20 View Post
    Angela - with all due respect and with the fact that I love you, I would have to say it was Abigail who started the snarky comments and remarks.

    She took a jibe at the user's name and posted that she couldn't take the OP seriously. Yet she constantly keeps coming back to post more snide comments and remarks on the OP's character.

    Quite a vituperative method of aggression.

    Also, I don't think that just because a person has been a long time member of the forums, they require special deference from other users.
    Credibility on the internet is a personal choice.

    Yes, I started it. It was pretty obvious. I was questioning the motives of this thread started by a "Spurgeon" bashing Calvinism. It just doesn't add up to me (trollish? sarcastic? making fun of Spurgeon or Calvin?). You do know what I'm talking about, right?

    Unless, you don't, then I understand your perspective.
    "In this world, you will have tribulation. But take heart, I have overcome the world." - Jesus

    My name is Abigail. I blog. I work full-time as a Network Engineer and I study Web Development part time. I also serve at New Creation Church SG as a Sound Control Assistant.

    This is the story of how I met the grace of Jesus Christ.

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