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I didn't say all are damned who live in China. Again, please explain this:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. [SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...
Why does Jesus separate nations when He returns. I agree, every nation has some who are saved and some who are not saved. So, please explain why they are being judged as nations and not individuals? How are nations gathered before him? Will Australia and all her people come before His throne collectively, then New Zealand, then Indonesia, etc? This isn't the only passage where nations are being treated as nations.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King... [SUP]18 [/SUP]If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
We see nations, not individuals, being punished here too.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. [SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...
Why does Jesus separate nations when He returns. I agree, every nation has some who are saved and some who are not saved. So, please explain why they are being judged as nations and not individuals? How are nations gathered before him? Will Australia and all her people come before His throne collectively, then New Zealand, then Indonesia, etc? This isn't the only passage where nations are being treated as nations.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King... [SUP]18 [/SUP]If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
We see nations, not individuals, being punished here too.
Just trying to make sense of it brother. There is no 1,000 year reign of Christ taught in any other book or passage. It only appears in one small passage in Revelation. When you have a book which employs heavy use of spiritual (figurative) language, one should be very careful not to develop brand new doctrines based entirely off this. My way of studying and learning is to allow scripture to interpret itself. It is especially powerful if the same author within the same book is providing the interpretations. Consider the below:
John starts out Revelation with the typical greeting to his intended audience, in this case the seven churches of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey). His is talking to them in the present tense (AD 96), time frame.
Rev 1:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Did you see that? His is referring to them already as kings and priests!! They are kings in priests in AD 96, they don't have to wait for some future millennium. This same concept is taught again in Rev 5. We turn to the throne room in heaven. Saints IN HEAVEN are signing a song.
Rev 5:
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”
Again, saints (this time physical dead but very much alive spiritually), are ALREADY kings and priests to God. Their status as kings and priests are unchanged from life to the after life. Their status as kings and priests is unchanged.
Rev 20:
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. ...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Christ is not dead. He's alive in heaven. "Lived" is past tense. What did John see?
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus.
He saw souls. If John see this scene after their resurrection and they were in spiritual bodies, he would not describe them as souls as they would appear as angels.
Where are souls found?
HEAVEN.
Because of this I believe the millennial reign is in heaven and on earth in the spiritual realm.
John starts out Revelation with the typical greeting to his intended audience, in this case the seven churches of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey). His is talking to them in the present tense (AD 96), time frame.
Rev 1:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Did you see that? His is referring to them already as kings and priests!! They are kings in priests in AD 96, they don't have to wait for some future millennium. This same concept is taught again in Rev 5. We turn to the throne room in heaven. Saints IN HEAVEN are signing a song.
Rev 5:
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”
Again, saints (this time physical dead but very much alive spiritually), are ALREADY kings and priests to God. Their status as kings and priests are unchanged from life to the after life. Their status as kings and priests is unchanged.
Rev 20:
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. ...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Christ is not dead. He's alive in heaven. "Lived" is past tense. What did John see?
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus.
He saw souls. If John see this scene after their resurrection and they were in spiritual bodies, he would not describe them as souls as they would appear as angels.
Where are souls found?
HEAVEN.
Because of this I believe the millennial reign is in heaven and on earth in the spiritual realm.
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Chris,
We agree on so much but not on the earthly physical millennial reign. I used to believe it but Zone convinced me that it is not taught.
What EXACTLY was Satan deceiving the nations about? Please be specific. It is the deception of Satan of certain nations that is stopped. FYI, the passage does not say he (Satan) will have zero influence in the world during the 1,000 years. Specifically it says this.
"...so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished."
First, which nations are subject to deception? All nations? It doesn't say "all nations." I can actually help with this.
"Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison [SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog..."
So Gog and Magog are the nations subject to Satan's deception. This does not include the USA, the UK, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Brazil, Canada, etc, etc. It is Gog, and Magog, where the deception is halted for "1,000 years" and then allowed to resume for a short time.
What are these nations deceived into doing? I can help with that too.
"...to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9 [/SUP]They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city."
They are deceived into attacking Israel and by extension (God). If we look at Ez 38-39, which I view as future, and align it with the passage I just quoted, what is happening there? Gog from Magog comes up against Israel and God gets very angry, FURIOUS, actually.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken..."
In the above, just as in Rev 20, God pours His wrath upon Gog, from Magog. Identify Gog and Magog and see if they were at peace with Israel for 1,000 years and if there is reason to believe they may attack her in the future and maybe we can solve this riddle. Honestly, I haven't done this yet myself because I just thought of it
.
We agree on so much but not on the earthly physical millennial reign. I used to believe it but Zone convinced me that it is not taught.
What EXACTLY was Satan deceiving the nations about? Please be specific. It is the deception of Satan of certain nations that is stopped. FYI, the passage does not say he (Satan) will have zero influence in the world during the 1,000 years. Specifically it says this.
"...so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished."
First, which nations are subject to deception? All nations? It doesn't say "all nations." I can actually help with this.
"Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison [SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog..."
So Gog and Magog are the nations subject to Satan's deception. This does not include the USA, the UK, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Brazil, Canada, etc, etc. It is Gog, and Magog, where the deception is halted for "1,000 years" and then allowed to resume for a short time.
What are these nations deceived into doing? I can help with that too.
"...to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9 [/SUP]They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city."
They are deceived into attacking Israel and by extension (God). If we look at Ez 38-39, which I view as future, and align it with the passage I just quoted, what is happening there? Gog from Magog comes up against Israel and God gets very angry, FURIOUS, actually.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken..."
In the above, just as in Rev 20, God pours His wrath upon Gog, from Magog. Identify Gog and Magog and see if they were at peace with Israel for 1,000 years and if there is reason to believe they may attack her in the future and maybe we can solve this riddle. Honestly, I haven't done this yet myself because I just thought of it
.Chris,
Given what I just posted you might be right. The 1,000 year period where Satan is not deceiving could be any time after Christ left and now. John makes reference to the those souls in heaven being beheaded and not taking the mark. We know that Muslims (followers of Islam) began beheading saints in the 700s. They are continuing this practice today.
Given what I just posted you might be right. The 1,000 year period where Satan is not deceiving could be any time after Christ left and now. John makes reference to the those souls in heaven being beheaded and not taking the mark. We know that Muslims (followers of Islam) began beheading saints in the 700s. They are continuing this practice today.