Revelation states that Magog is the nations of the Earth. As the context is within the Millennium period I cant imagine christ allowing Islam or any other religion existing while he reigns from Jerusalem. Satan is behind the rebellion so everyone who sides with him will have rejected Christs kingdom so Islam or any other religion is irrelevant within that context.
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[SUP]2 [/SUP]“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, [/SIZE][SUP]3 [/SUP]and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal.
I believe the passage from Ez 38 above identifying those who attack Israel is more than just those ISLAMIC countries but includes Russia
See the below from Zec:
Zechariah 12:3
And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.
All nations are not All nations of the planet, they are those of the earth shown above. Pretty much every nation on the planet is against Israel in the UN now, except for us once Jan 20 comes.
I believe the passage from Ez 38 above identifying those who attack Israel is more than just those ISLAMIC countries but includes Russia
See the below from Zec:
Zechariah 12:3
And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.
All nations are not All nations of the planet, they are those of the earth shown above. Pretty much every nation on the planet is against Israel in the UN now, except for us once Jan 20 comes.
Ezek 38, fufilled already.
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Your map is really strange, I've never seen one like it, and I've seen many.
Persia is in the wrong place.
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The situation in the Middle East will become obvious very soon.
The USA will not, or cannot defend Israel.
Pretend that you are President.
Iran, with the support of Russia and others, is moving to invade Israel.
But what about the war we are fighting with N. Korea and China over S. Korea?
Much of our military is there.
And what about the cost?
Trillions of dollars on war already spent on the New Korean war?
Sorry the USA can't fight 2 wars alone,
Especially over tiny Israel,
Which the vast majority of the world's people have been taught to hate.
And the majority of the people in the USA have taken an isolationist view, cause they're sick of war.
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God bless Israel.
They will live forever,
in heaven.
The door is still open for the natural branches to come into the Pentecost Kingdom.
The Messiah, Jesus is still calling them.
May Jesus lift the vale that covers their eyes, to knowing, and loving Jesus, and finding salvation.
Time is running out, to enter the Ark, who is Jesus.
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Israel will be overcome by the 200 mill. man army.
When you count an army,
you don't just count the people on the front lines,
You count all those who supply and support that army.
So the 200 mill. figure is all those who are actively trying to destroy Israel and their supporters.
All the nations surrounding Israel and other nations that hate Israel around the world, 200 mill. easy.
Such a tiny nation, not deserving of the hatred shown to them.
There probably would have been peace in the Middle East long ago, except for Iran.
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Can't you see that they are surrounded right now?
Do you think that they will have victory over Russia, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Libya, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Gaza and others all combined?
Do you believe that they will "escape" from the massive armies by going to ......... WHERE?
Jets, bombs, and missiles can't get them ......... WHERE?
These hardcore, Islamic terrorists, (Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, etc.) will show no mercy to the men, women, and children of Israel.
It is a fight to the death, there will be no "after" for the natural branches on this earth.
Their genocide as a people will signal the resurrection and the end of the planet 3 1/2 days later.
The "nations" are not all the nations of the planet. They are the goat nations, the unsaved nations if you will. There is no 1,000 year earthly physical reign of Christ. That idea which comes from Rev 20 is a spiritual reigning which has been going on since Pentecost. Christ was reigning with SOULS, not living, on-earth beings. When Christ returns, He defeats His enemies and we enter the eternal state.
Not my map. It was the first one I found. Was in a hurry and didn't really look at it close, LOL.
Ez 38 is most decidedly NOT fulfilled. Ez 38 follows Ez 37 which is the restoration to the land which began in 1948. God didn't intervene back in 70 AD. He clearly intervenes in Ez 38. Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya were not part of the foreign transcripts that assisted Rome back in 70 AD. Israel was captive just 70 years in Babylon. This verse would not make sense for that era:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate...
The Children of Judea and Israel scattered AFTER Babylon into the many nations.
Ez 38 is most decidedly NOT fulfilled. Ez 38 follows Ez 37 which is the restoration to the land which began in 1948. God didn't intervene back in 70 AD. He clearly intervenes in Ez 38. Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya were not part of the foreign transcripts that assisted Rome back in 70 AD. Israel was captive just 70 years in Babylon. This verse would not make sense for that era:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate...
The Children of Judea and Israel scattered AFTER Babylon into the many nations.
God rescues ISRAEL. She gets invaded. Not sure what Trump would do, he's so unpredictable.
No, no, no. The 200 million army is GOOD. They are Christian. They are part of the wrath of God against the wicked. Notice the rest did not repent? Noticed they are "killed" with "plagues?"
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Look at how they are killed.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.
This is the same exact way the witnesses did their "killing."
...and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies.
The witnesses are then "killed" after the 6th trumpet. The 6th trumpet is the 2nd woe. The 2nd woe concludes once the witnesses are killed.
No, no, no. The 200 million army is GOOD. They are Christian. They are part of the wrath of God against the wicked. Notice the rest did not repent? Noticed they are "killed" with "plagues?"
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Look at how they are killed.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.
This is the same exact way the witnesses did their "killing."
...and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies.
The witnesses are then "killed" after the 6th trumpet. The 6th trumpet is the 2nd woe. The 2nd woe concludes once the witnesses are killed.
What exactly is an unsaved nation? I cant think of one Nation that is 100% saved. There are problems with the view that
the Millennium is purely spiritual. It is obvious to anyone that Satan has not been bound since Pentecost. I agree that Christ reigns within the body of believers but that doesn't fulfill all the prophecies regarding his return. His Disciples asked
him when he would set up his kingdom. It was the belief then that the Messiah would set up an earthly kingdom. He didnt deny that belief but said that the time was in the hands of the Father. If Pentecost was the start of the Millennial kingdom
mentioned in Revelation he would have said so. Also if it started at Pentecost then why reveal it to John as if it was in the future and not already started?
the Millennium is purely spiritual. It is obvious to anyone that Satan has not been bound since Pentecost. I agree that Christ reigns within the body of believers but that doesn't fulfill all the prophecies regarding his return. His Disciples asked
him when he would set up his kingdom. It was the belief then that the Messiah would set up an earthly kingdom. He didnt deny that belief but said that the time was in the hands of the Father. If Pentecost was the start of the Millennial kingdom
mentioned in Revelation he would have said so. Also if it started at Pentecost then why reveal it to John as if it was in the future and not already started?
The above is only implied by you! Scripture on the other hand demonstrates that there will be a literal thousand year reign, for it mentions "a thousand years" six times within the context. The burden of proof is then on you and those who claim that there is no literal thousand years and that because scripture states that there will be. In order to come to your conclusion, you have to ignore what is literally written and spiritualize it.
tanakh,
Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, the Gulf States, Yemen, China to name a few. When Jesus says this, what do you envision?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Why is He dividing nations when our salvation is individual?
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Let's discuss. What problems are you having with this concept?
What is/was Satan bound from doing? It doesn't say he was bound from influencing evil or causing trouble, right? He was bound from deceiving the nations. What was he deceiving the nations about?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.
So there is a long period of time, signified by a non-literal 1,000 years, where Satan wasn't deceiving the nations after which he can deceive them again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
When he is allowed to deceive again, what does this deception cause the nations to do?
And so He did? You are living in this kingdom right now my dear friend. We are spiritually in God's Kingdom doing His work and being His witness right here on earth. This kingdom is everlasting and will never be destroyed, attacked yes, but never destroyed. When Jesus returns, all enemies will be put down and then the whole earth and everyone in it will be saved and the spiritual and physical are merged into ONE.
Peter teaches:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’
This means EVERYTHING PETER just said was happening RIGHT THEN, not later!! The Great and Awesome DAY of the LORD took place at Pentecost. God's spirit came upon men and they received the Kingdom of God, right then and there. This is why Jesus was able to say this:
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”
Indeed they did, at Pentecost. I know, it's crazy and took me forever to figure it out. From Pentecost and onward, "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!!" 3,000 were added to the kingdom that first day.
Do I think that there will be another "Day of the Lord?" Absolutely at judgment.
What makes you think John presented this as future?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, the Gulf States, Yemen, China to name a few. When Jesus says this, what do you envision?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Why is He dividing nations when our salvation is individual?
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Let's discuss. What problems are you having with this concept?
What is/was Satan bound from doing? It doesn't say he was bound from influencing evil or causing trouble, right? He was bound from deceiving the nations. What was he deceiving the nations about?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.
So there is a long period of time, signified by a non-literal 1,000 years, where Satan wasn't deceiving the nations after which he can deceive them again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
When he is allowed to deceive again, what does this deception cause the nations to do?
And so He did? You are living in this kingdom right now my dear friend. We are spiritually in God's Kingdom doing His work and being His witness right here on earth. This kingdom is everlasting and will never be destroyed, attacked yes, but never destroyed. When Jesus returns, all enemies will be put down and then the whole earth and everyone in it will be saved and the spiritual and physical are merged into ONE.
Peter teaches:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’
This means EVERYTHING PETER just said was happening RIGHT THEN, not later!! The Great and Awesome DAY of the LORD took place at Pentecost. God's spirit came upon men and they received the Kingdom of God, right then and there. This is why Jesus was able to say this:
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”
Indeed they did, at Pentecost. I know, it's crazy and took me forever to figure it out. From Pentecost and onward, "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!!" 3,000 were added to the kingdom that first day.
Do I think that there will be another "Day of the Lord?" Absolutely at judgment.
What makes you think John presented this as future?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
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God saves individuals not Nations. Just because a Country claims to be Christian doesn't make it so. Also some of the Countries you list have Christians living in them China is an example there are millions of Christians there. According to you they are all damned because they are part of that Nation.
The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost. The actual festival of Pentecost commemorated the giving of the Law and Old Covenant to Israel through Moses. For Christians it marks the start of the New Covenant and the birth of the Church not the start of a millennium.
Satan is deceiving the Nations now and has been since the fall. During the millennium his influence will not be present in the world.
There is a debate as to whether the 1000 years is a literal figure or whether it represents just a long period of time. Either way I dont believe that it started at Pentecost. Jewish expectation was that the kingdom of God was literal and the Messiah would reign from Jerusalem. The thousand year length was believed within Jewish tradition before Revelation was written. That is why the Disciples thought that Jesus was going to set up the kingdom at his first coming.
The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost. The actual festival of Pentecost commemorated the giving of the Law and Old Covenant to Israel through Moses. For Christians it marks the start of the New Covenant and the birth of the Church not the start of a millennium.
Satan is deceiving the Nations now and has been since the fall. During the millennium his influence will not be present in the world.
There is a debate as to whether the 1000 years is a literal figure or whether it represents just a long period of time. Either way I dont believe that it started at Pentecost. Jewish expectation was that the kingdom of God was literal and the Messiah would reign from Jerusalem. The thousand year length was believed within Jewish tradition before Revelation was written. That is why the Disciples thought that Jesus was going to set up the kingdom at his first coming.
Hey pottersclay,
actually, they are misapplying scripture to other scripture. Here is one example of how the Amillennialist's, which is what PW is, come to their conclusion regarding the thousand years mentioned in Rev.20:1-7.
"for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills." - Psalm 50:10
Since the thousand hills and the cattle on them is an unknowable number, they use this application and apply to Rev.20:1-7, so that the thousand years mentioned becomes the same as the meaning in Psalm 50:10. In conjunction with that, they will claim that the reference to Satan being bound took place at the cross and by doing so they ignore the context, which should be considered first, where the scripture states that he is literally thrown into and restricted in the Abyss, and that after Christ's return to the earth to end the age.
So, they're not just making it up, but are ignoring the context of Rev.20 and equating the thousand years with Psalm 50:10. For them, if the chronological order of Satan's binding was literal and the binding itself was literal, then it destroys their position as amillennialist's which say there is not literal thousand years.
actually, they are misapplying scripture to other scripture. Here is one example of how the Amillennialist's, which is what PW is, come to their conclusion regarding the thousand years mentioned in Rev.20:1-7.
"for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills." - Psalm 50:10
Since the thousand hills and the cattle on them is an unknowable number, they use this application and apply to Rev.20:1-7, so that the thousand years mentioned becomes the same as the meaning in Psalm 50:10. In conjunction with that, they will claim that the reference to Satan being bound took place at the cross and by doing so they ignore the context, which should be considered first, where the scripture states that he is literally thrown into and restricted in the Abyss, and that after Christ's return to the earth to end the age.
So, they're not just making it up, but are ignoring the context of Rev.20 and equating the thousand years with Psalm 50:10. For them, if the chronological order of Satan's binding was literal and the binding itself was literal, then it destroys their position as amillennialist's which say there is not literal thousand years.
G
Correct. It is the number of cattle that is unknowable, not the number of hills.
Psalms 50:
[SUP]10[/SUP] For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
In the context of this verse of scripture, the words "a thousand hills" literally mean [ exactly ] '1000' hills.
What should we expect that the phrase "the forest" means? That there is only one forest?
How about -- every beast that is in any forest...? ( i.e. - every beast that lives in a forest )
What about every beast anywhere-other-than-a-forest...? Are they included?
Our 'interpretation' of "all [ beasts ] everywhere" is extrapolated from the overall "sense and tense" of the verse in the context of the passage. However, at the 'grammar of the language' level of it, this is not so.
The prepositional phrases are used for emphasis.
The phrase "a thousand" means '1000'.
Psalms 50:
[SUP]10[/SUP] For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
In the context of this verse of scripture, the words "a thousand hills" literally mean [ exactly ] '1000' hills.
What should we expect that the phrase "the forest" means? That there is only one forest?
How about -- every beast that is in any forest...? ( i.e. - every beast that lives in a forest )
What about every beast anywhere-other-than-a-forest...? Are they included?
Our 'interpretation' of "all [ beasts ] everywhere" is extrapolated from the overall "sense and tense" of the verse in the context of the passage. However, at the 'grammar of the language' level of it, this is not so.
The prepositional phrases are used for emphasis.
The phrase "a thousand" means '1000'.
Actually, it is the number of hills as well that is unknowable. When the scripture says "I own cattle on a thousand hills" it is referring to God owning everything, all of the cattle and all of the hills, not just a thousand. Otherwise you would be saying that God only owns a thousand hills. Who then would own the rest of them?
But this was not my original point, which was/is that the amillennialist's apply the meaning of the thousand hills, their meaning being an unknowable number, and apply that same meaning to Rev.20:1-7. Therefore they interpret the reference to "a thousand years" in Revelation as an unknown amount of time.
The context should always be considered first. In the case of Rev.20:1-7, the context demonstrates a literal thousand years and there is therefore no reason to go looking for another meaning. There is no reason to apply the meaning of Psalm 50:10 to Rev.20:1-7, as it distorts the true meaning. Because of this belief, we have people who think that we are currently living in the thousand years, which to them, is not a real thousand years. Not only that, but in order to hold to that belief, they have to circumvent or distort the other scriptures that describe that thousand year reign of Christ.