Does the gift of prophecy include preaching?

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Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#21
Many teachers say that PREACHING IS NOT PROPHESYING.
What they say is unquestionable if we consider pastors who deliver microwave sermons, for example. But I don't think this is what God intends preachers to do; I think preachers are supposed to seek God's guidance in every way, specially with respect to the topic of the sermon. Only God knows the hearts of everyone and He knows what we need to hear.

If we preach according to God's guidance we are actually prophesying. I attend a rather fundamentalist church and they permit women to deliver the sermon when no male preacher has received any revelation from God on what to preach. If their policy is biblically right, this would mean that women can preach (prophesy = preach).
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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#22
Many teachers say that PREACHING IS NOT PROPHESYING.
Just google and you will find many teachers saying so, but I'm not so sure about that. Why?

1. Paul said that prophecies build up the church (they help believers become more Christ like). Do you think that a prediction of the future or a revelation of unknown information can make us more Christ like? I don't think so - I think that Christian doctrine can make us more Christ like and Paul was using PROPHECY as synonym with PREACHING (Christian doctrine);

2. Paul said: "Let two or three prophesy and the others are to weigh what has been spoken". Can we cast judgement on a prediction of the future or on a revelation of unknown information? Again, I think Paul was talking about PREACHING DOCTRINE;

3. The New Testament uses the word KERYSSO (to preach, to announce as a herald) and the word seems to be used always in the context of announcing the Good News to unbelievers. When it comes to PREACHING DOCTRINE, I think that the verb PROPHESY is used.

If anyone can prove me wrong, I'll be thankful to them - I'm just looking for the truth. If by PROPHECY -- in I COR 14 -- Paul means PREACHING, then women can preach.
 
Mar 23, 2014
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#23
.,.,,,. When it comes to PREACHING DOCTRINE, I think that the verb PROPHESY is used.
PREACHING DOCTRINE & PROPHESY have three distenct definitions. One without the need of the other; in my view

What are you trying to say; may i ask? :)-

If anyone can prove me wrong, I'll be thankful to them - I'm just looking for the truth. If by PROPHECY -- in I COR 14 -- Paul means PREACHING, then women can preach.
Define the words you uses above in your own words, and then I will answer you
:)-
 
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Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#24
PREACHING DOCTRINE & PROPHESY have three distenct definitions. One without the need of the other; in my view

What are you trying to say; may i ask? :)-



Define the words you uses above in your own words, and then I will answer you
:)-
Let's take a look at the original post:

Paul wanted all Christians to prophesy because the one who prophesies builds up the church. What was he mainly talking about? Prediction of future events; revelation of unknown information; or preaching, teaching and exhorting?
I believe Paul (in I COR 14) was mainly talking about PREACHING, TEACHING and EXHORTING, because these things edify the church. Do you agree with me?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#25
Let's take a look at the original post:

I believe Paul (in I COR 14) was mainly talking about PREACHING, TEACHING and EXHORTING, because these things edify the church. Do you agree with me?
No, I don't agree. While I would say that it is possible for someone to prophesy during a traditional 'sermon' or for the content of a prophecy to be exhortation or teaching, Romans 12 treats prophesying, teaching, and exhorting as different gifts.

'Preach' is usually used to refer to evangelizing outside of a church meeting, depending on your translation. (The KJV translates a word for dispute or discourse in Acts 2 using 'preach.' But usually uses 'preach' to translate words used in an evangelistic context.)

Evangelists, in the Biblical sense 'preach.' So did the apostles. They proclaim the Gospel to unbelievers to win them to Christ. In the first century, they actually spoke to crowds of non-Christians rather than having a crusade full of Christians like we have now. Timothy was told to do the work of an evangelist in the same passage he was told to preach.

Romans 12 lists different gifts, including prophecy, teaching, and exhortation. Paul treats these as separate gifts.

Why should the definition of 'prophesy' change in I Corinthians from something different from what it meant in the Old Testament? Prophesying is revelatory. The Spirit of God gives the individual words to speak. The Old Testament prophet often said 'Thus saith the LORD' and gave a 'first person' message from God. By first person, I mean he said "I" and "Me" to refer to God speaking through him.

What do we see in the New Testament? In Acts, Agabus prophesies over Paul and starts off "Thus saith the Holy Ghost".

In the Old Testament, a priest might teach the writings of Moses. Israel was unfaithful and got away from the Law, but in the time of Ezra, the priests were teaching the law. Prophesying was different. Zechariah and Haggai would say, "Thus saith the Lord" type prophecies, saying what God was telling them. Here, we see a distinction even in the Old Testament between the teaching priests and the prophesying prophets.

Prophesying is revelatory in I Corinthians 14. While giving instructions on how 'ye may all prophesy', Paul says 'if a revelation cometh to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one....'

So we see that the content of prophesying is revelation.

Look at verse 26. Paul gives instructions for how regular members of the body can sing and speak in such a way to edify the church. "....every one of you hath a psalm, hath adoctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

First, I'd like to point out that we are talking about the Bible here, not how most people do church. The Bible does not say still and listen to one pastor speak for half an hour. Rather, what Paul calls the 'commandments of the Lord' in the passage have to do with members of the congregation speaking in an orderly, edifying manner. There are specific rules on how some of those individuals are to speak in tongues, interpret and prophesy.

So notice in verse 26 that 'doctrine' and 'revelation' are different categories. One might teach doctrine with the gift of teaching. Some translations translated this as 'teaching' rather than doctrine. And prophesying shares revelation as we see elsewhere in the chapter.

Please note that in the hypothetical example Paul gave, if all prophesy, an unbeliever or unlearned person who comes in may fall on his face and say that God is truly among you when the secrets of his heart are prophesied. There are occasions when prophesying mentions things to an individual that the person doing the prohpesying cannot naturally know. I've seen plenty of this.
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#26
When the Holy Spirit came upon Saul, he prophesied with the prophets. He did not predict anything, He parised God. If the spirit of prophesy is the testimony (witness) of Jesus Christ, it certainly entails preaching.

It is simply put throughout the Word. No, there will be no more prophets of God adding to the Word of God except the two witnesses to come, for none other are prophesied, YET there is the gift of prophecy.

Do not argue words splitting hairs ad infinatum...........

The teachings are all to be understtood by the Holy Spirit, never by siezing them from God, that latter is impossible so all who are attempting to do this through intellectual endeavour just stop. It is futile.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#27
Paul wanted all Christians to prophesy because the one who prophesies builds up the church. What was he mainly talking about? Prediction of future events; revelation of unknown information; or preaching, teaching and exhorting?
Yes, but the prophesies are only what the Bible already prophesizes. We are all priests in Christ, and called to share His Word with outsiders- that they may also become disciples of Christ (God's children).
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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#28
Paul wanted all Christians to prophesy because the one who prophesies builds up the church. What was he mainly talking about? Prediction of future events; revelation of unknown information; or preaching, teaching and exhorting?
All of the above.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#29
No, I don't agree. While I would say that it is possible...........for the content of a prophecy to be exhortation or teaching,.....'Preach' is usually used to refer to evangelizing outside of a church meeting,
We do agree on some points:

1. You say that it is possible for the content of a prophecy to be exhortation or teaching (that's what I've been saying since the beginning);

2. You say PREACHING is used to refer to evangelizing outside of a church meeting. Look at what I said in post #22:
The New Testament uses the word KERYSSO (to preach, to announce as a herald) and the word seems to be used always in the context of announcing the Good News to unbelievers.
3. You say that prophesying is revelatory. See what I said in post #21:
If we preach (give a sermon) according to God's guidance we are actually prophesying.
Because God has revealed to us what to preach.

Your best input was this: "Romans 12 lists different gifts, including prophecy, teaching, and exhortation. Paul treats these as separate gifts". I will meditate on it!
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#30
Marcelo,

God could tell a preacher what to preach on, but why would that make every word that comes out of his mouth a prophecy? If the Spirit is moving him to speak the actual words, sure. But you can get direction on the topic, and then teach out of the teaching gift.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#31
Marcelo,

God could tell a preacher what to preach on, but why would that make every word that comes out of his mouth a prophecy? If the Spirit is moving him to speak the actual words, sure. But you can get direction on the topic, and then teach out of the teaching gift.
No preacher worth his salt would dare to preach without the anointing of the Holy Spirit. To preach in ones own strength of will is utter foolishness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#32
Marcelo,

God could tell a preacher what to preach on, but why would that make every word that comes out of his mouth a prophecy? If the Spirit is moving him to speak the actual words, sure. But you can get direction on the topic, and then teach out of the teaching gift.

We can't call those words a prophecy in the sense of predicting the future. To prophesy means to act as God's spokesperson and if you are teaching what God told you to teach, you are actually prophesying.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#33
We can't call those words a prophecy in the sense of predicting the future. To prophesy means to act as God's spokesperson and if you are teaching what God told you to teach, you are actually prophesying.
I suppose you could say that anyone can predict the future of an unsaved person. Die apart from Christ in your sin and your future is certain eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#34
I suppose you could say that anyone can predict the future of an unsaved person. Die apart from Christ in your sin and your future is certain eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ, Roger
In this sense all true Christians are prophets because they have this revelation from God.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#35
1 Peter 4:10-11

[SUP]10 [/SUP]As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."


If any man [SUP]G1536[/SUP] speak, [SUP]G2980[/SUP] let him speak as [SUP]G5613[/SUP] the oracles [SUP]G3051[/SUP] of God; [SUP]G2316[/SUP] if any man [SUP]G1536[/SUP] minister, [SUP]G1247[/SUP] let him do it as [SUP]G5613[/SUP] of [SUP]G1537[/SUP] the ability [SUP]G2479[/SUP] which [SUP]G3739[/SUP] God [SUP]G2316[/SUP] giveth: [SUP]G5524[/SUP] that [SUP]G2443[/SUP] God [SUP]G2316[/SUP] in [SUP]G1722[/SUP] all things [SUP]G3956[/SUP] may be glorified [SUP]G1392[/SUP] through [SUP]G1223[/SUP] Jesus [SUP]G2424[/SUP] Christ, [SUP]G5547[/SUP] to whom [SUP]G3739[/SUP] be [SUP]G2076[/SUP] praise [SUP]G1391[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] dominion [SUP]G2904[/SUP] for [SUP]G1519[/SUP] ever [SUP]G165[/SUP] and ever. [SUP]G165[/SUP] Amen. [SUP]G281[/SUP]




The KJV translates Strong's G3051 in the following manner: oracle (4x).


  1. a brief utterance, a divine oracle (doubtless because oracles were generally brief)
    1. in the NT, the words or utterances of God
    2. of the contents of the Mosaic law

      λόγιον lógion, log'-ee-on; neuter of G3052; an utterance (of God):—oracle.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#36
I am coming to the conclusion that women cannot preach to adult males.

I'm sorry, girls, but I think Paul really said women can't preach to adult males. The word PREACH is used to translate three different words in Greek: KERYSSO, KERYGMA and DIDÁSKEIN.

KERYSSO is used when we preach the Gospel to unbelievers;
KERYGMA means to PROCLAIM (e.g.: John the Baptist proclaimed a message in the Desert);
DIDÁSKEIN means to TEACH.

In my opinion PROPHECY includes PREACHING because every preacher should have a revelation from God before he starts preaching.

The problem is that Paul does not allow women to PREACH (TEACH/DIDÁSKEIN) to adult males.

Hopefully I'm wrong because I like to see women preaching.


 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#37
Paul also said there was neither male nor female in Christ Jesus, for all are one.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#38
I am coming to the conclusion that women cannot preach to adult males.

I'm sorry, girls, but I think Paul really said women can't preach to adult males. The word PREACH is used to translate three different words in Greek: KERYSSO, KERYGMA and DIDÁSKEIN.

KERYSSO is used when we preach the Gospel to unbelievers;
KERYGMA means to PROCLAIM (e.g.: John the Baptist proclaimed a message in the Desert);
DIDÁSKEIN means to TEACH.

In my opinion PROPHECY includes PREACHING because every preacher should have a revelation from God before he starts preaching.


What is 'preaching' then in the last sentence above? Is it evangelizing unbelievers? Is it giving a speech in front of a church? If prophesying is preaching, why are evangelists and prophets different in Ephesians 4:11 Why are teachers and prophets different ministries in I Corinthians 12, toward the end of the chapter. Why are prophesying, teaching, and exhortation different gifts in Romans 12?

If someone does evangelism, he doesn't have to get an immediate word from heaven to tell other people about Jesus. He can preach the same type of stuff the apostles taught. If someone stands before the church and teaches, he doesn't have to hear God tell him the topic. He can minister out of knowledge of the word of God and the grace he has through the Spirit which enables him to teach the word of God. Even if the Spirit directs one to teach on a particular topic, it doesn't make the whole discourse a prophecy.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#39
What is 'preaching' then in the last sentence above? Is it evangelizing unbelievers? Is it giving a speech in front of a church?
When I started the thread I didn't know what Greek word was used to refer to GIVING A SPEECH IN FRONT OF A CHURCH GROUP. I thought that PROPHESY could be used for that, but now I am more inclined to believe that the New Testament uses the word TEACH.

If the word TEACH (DIDÁSKEIN) really means TO DELIVER A SERMON then I'll have to admit that women can't preach (deliver a sermon), because Paul said that women are not allowed to teach.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#40
Look it comes down to this.....

a. One can preach, state or read a prophecy from the word of God but it does not make one a prophet.
b. The prophets were given divine insight, visons and the very words to pen concerning the prophecy being conveyed.

With the completed word of God, the call to not ADD to the words of "this prophecy" it is highly unlikely that one would fulfill the role of a "Prophet"

Just saying!